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Quick vs Bernier

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:55 PM
  #101
Winger23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
There's no way to officially prove it one way or the other since we can't watch every single save Quick has made this season, but he still gives up a TON of rebounds. Keep an eye on how many pucks come back out into the slot off of his leg pads the next several games.
I could stand to be corrected of course, as a few others have said as well, but my recollection of most games this year is the puck hitting him in the crest or stomach area and him just sitting there holding the puck like he's holding his stomach in. I know there have been rebounds and agreed with him over playing the angle, but I didn't think it was happening as often as some are pointing out.

Count me in on the crowd that wants to give Bernier more starts, but I'm not ready to say he can be the #1 on this team if Quick ends up leaving...

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03-02-2012, 07:08 PM
  #102
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This is from a year ago, but a fun read nonetheless:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,wp1203

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03-02-2012, 07:13 PM
  #103
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When Bernier shuts the door, he is lights out. Quick either wins and lets in typical NHL goals, has a bad game and gets yanked or comes up huge with amazing saves in tight games. He hasn't been clutch in the playoffs yet though.

I really think we need a coach that splits it more 50-60 to 20-30 to see what Bernier can do and rest Quick for the playoffs....if we ever get there...

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03-02-2012, 07:16 PM
  #104
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Bernier, he will be better than quick also we could get more in return for quick. What's the hurry I don't think Bernier is a Ufa for a few years. We should follow the Canucks formula for Schineder and Luongo.

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03-02-2012, 07:18 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by topliner967 View Post
This is from a year ago, but a fun read nonetheless:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,wp1203
It's interesting, but "This wasn't an examination of every save, just every goal."

It's possible that they allow more rebounds, but teammates manage to control them.

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03-02-2012, 07:53 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by topliner967 View Post
This is from a year ago, but a fun read nonetheless:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,wp1203
Bernier may be better at rebound play but that also means he lets in more first shot goals. At least the rebound can be cleared(and with Quick he's athletic enough to make alot of saves).

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03-04-2012, 04:52 AM
  #107
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You gotta realize the goalie needs time to become effective in that system. It will take JB a lot of time to adjust just like it did with JQ. I think it would pay off in the long run if we dealt JQ next season and with with Bernie.

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03-04-2012, 08:38 AM
  #108
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I chuckle when I read people wanting Bernier to play in a 1A 1B thing.

Why?

Do you really think Bernier is going to out perform Quick? By what margin? A goaltender can't play much better than Quick. He's the #1. Until he's usurped, he should get ice time accordingly.

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03-04-2012, 11:05 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
When Bernier shuts the door, he is lights out. Quick either wins and lets in typical NHL goals, has a bad game and gets yanked or comes up huge with amazing saves in tight games. He hasn't been clutch in the playoffs yet though.

I really think we need a coach that splits it more 50-60 to 20-30 to see what Bernier can do and rest Quick for the playoffs....if we ever get there...
Not sure I agree with the first part as I can't really recall an NHL game where Bernier has single-handedly won a game for the Kings. Quick on the other hand I can I can recall a handful of games where the Kings shouldn't have won if it wasn't for Quick (his 50 save shutout in Detroit being one.) I do really agree with your second point though that Bernier needs more games. I'd even say it needs to be closer to 50-30 and even 40-40... The kings going forward need to know what they have and can expect from both Quick and Bernier. Quick we know at this point. Bernier is still somewhat of a question mark when it comes to a heavy workload and playing back to back games and that's something that needs to change.

Quote:
I chuckle when I read people wanting Bernier to play in a 1A 1B thing.

Why?

Do you really think Bernier is going to out perform Quick? By what margin? A goaltender can't play much better than Quick. He's the #1. Until he's usurped, he should get ice time accordingly.
With Quick as a UFA aftert this next year you have to know what you have in Bernier. See what happened in San Jose with Nabakov and Toskala, as it became clear that both could be solid choices as a number #1 Toskala began to see an increase in starts until he was traded. This culminated is Toskala having 38 games played and Nabakov playing in 50 games in 2006-2007. Take into consideration that some of those starts saw one pulled in favor of the other (since there aren't 88 games in a season) and what you end up with is that the two were almost splitting starts by the end of their time in SJ with Nabby seeing a slightly higher workload. An example of this process being handled poorly would be the Ducks handling of the Giguere and Bryzgalov situation and the zero return they got for Bryz...


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Old
03-04-2012, 12:01 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
You gotta realize the goalie needs time to become effective in that system. It will take JB a lot of time to adjust just like it did with JQ. I think it would pay off in the long run if we dealt JQ next season and with with Bernie.
Based on what? These scenarios some you guys are suggesting will never happen. Quick is the number #1, plain and simple.

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03-04-2012, 02:19 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
With Quick as a UFA aftert this next year you have to know what you have in Bernier. See what happened in San Jose with Nabakov and Toskala, as it became clear that both could be solid choices as a number #1 Toskala began to see an increase in starts until he was traded. This culminated is Toskala having 38 games played and Nabakov playing in 50 games in 2006-2007. Take into consideration that some of those starts saw one pulled in favor of the other (since there aren't 88 games in a season) and what you end up with is that the two were almost splitting starts by the end of their time in SJ with Nabby seeing a slightly higher workload. An example of this process being handled poorly would be the Ducks handling of the Giguere and Bryzgalov situation and the zero return they got for Bryz...

this is so ridiculous. it reads like a fantasy assessment.

Hockey is not played on paper and their job is to win games, not platoon because of contract status. Do you really see DL sitting down with DS and going "well...John is going to be a UFA in a year...man...better play Joe more, just in case!"

No one has any idea what's going on behind the scenes, or what the scuttle is on Quick negotiating in the OS. They Kings don't need to see if JB is #1 quality, they know he is. The difference is, Quick IS the #1 here.

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03-04-2012, 03:29 PM
  #112
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The thing is Bernier might be the better goalie right now. Thats why we need to play him more... He certainly has the tougher job. playing once a month can't be easy. Even still he would likeley have better stats if he wasnt thrown into the fire in that detroit game.

I'd be a little curious to know what Berniers stats are in just his starts.

His style certainly looks better, if thats worth anything.

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03-04-2012, 03:33 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
The thing is Bernier might be the better goalie right now. Thats why we need to play him more... He certainly has the tougher job. playing once a month can't be easy. Even still he would likeley have better stats if he wasnt thrown into the fire in that detroit game.

I'd be a little curious to know what Berniers stats are in just his starts.

His style certainly looks better, if thats worth anything.
21 GA in his 10 starts in 596 minutes.

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03-04-2012, 03:51 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
21 GA in his 10 starts in 596 minutes.
im at work otherwise id do it myself, but how about his save percentage in those games?

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03-04-2012, 04:20 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Based on what?
Gut feeling. It's the thing that moves the world. 95% of everything irrational on the planet is consequence of gut feeling.

In this particular case fans WANT Bernier to be Vezina winner, so they are willing to get rid of Quick. Yes, they want Bernier to become a great goalie, so in their mind it's already a sure thing. Sounds ridiculous, but we all think like that sometimes.

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03-04-2012, 04:39 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
The thing is Bernier might be the better goalie right now. Thats why we need to play him more... He certainly has the tougher job. playing once a month can't be easy. Even still he would likeley have better stats if he wasnt thrown into the fire in that detroit game.

I'd be a little curious to know what Berniers stats are in just his starts.

His style certainly looks better, if thats worth anything.
He has ten starts, his stats are worthless.

I agree with your sentiment, though. We have two great goaltenders and know how good one of them is. All we're really sure of when comparing the two is that Quick is better at English and Bernier is a much better stick handler... Much better

People are really insecure about Quick for some reason, though. I think he's probably the better goalie but, I think we should definitely give Bernier the chance to prove us wrong. Most Quick fans seem to freak out when you propose that.

Is right now the time to see if Bernier is the better goalie? Hell no. That time was at the start of the season, a time where TM (brace yourself, huge shocker here) messed up. Now we need every win. We know we can win with Quick. Maybe we can win with Bernier, maybe we can win more with Bernier. But we can't risk finding out we win less with him.

The split now should be more in favour of Quick, now's not the time to 50/50 unless we're a bit more secure. I do think Bernier should get the next two starts, though. He has decent history against NashVille and I want Quick in, rested, against Detroit.

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03-04-2012, 04:42 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
In this particular case fans WANT Bernier to be Vezina winner, so they are willing to get rid of Quick. Yes, they want Bernier to become a great goalie, so in their mind it's already a sure thing. Sounds ridiculous, but we all think like that sometimes.
There is something wrong with wanting one of our goalies to be a vezina winner? Or in wanting the goalie we're going to have at a lower cap hit to be the better goalie?

Best case scenario for the Kings: Bernier is better than Quick.

Some people might think Bernier is better, I don't know. The overwhelming majority of "Bernier fans" just want him to get enough starts so we know how good he is.

If anything, it's the Quick fans who have already decided how good Bernier is without knowing. Sounds ridiculous, but we all think like that sometimes.

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03-04-2012, 04:45 PM
  #118
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I would say that Quick is obviously the more experienced and currently the better goalie. However, I would not be at all be surprised if Bernier had just as good of a career, if not better.

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03-04-2012, 04:45 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
Gut feeling. It's the thing that moves the world. 95% of everything irrational on the planet is consequence of gut feeling.

In this particular case fans WANT Bernier to be Vezina winner, so they are willing to get rid of Quick. Yes, they want Bernier to become a great goalie, so in their mind it's already a sure thing. Sounds ridiculous, but we all think like that sometimes.
I know what you're saying.

Fans around here have a fantasy of what they want Bernier to become, they'll look the other way and make excuses for him when he makes mistakes, and fawn all over him when he does something good.

Meanwhile, Quick is the real deal.

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03-04-2012, 04:47 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SMoneyMonkey View Post
There is something wrong with wanting one of our goalies to be a vezina winner? Or in wanting the goalie we're going to have at a lower cap hit to be the better goalie?

Best case scenario for the Kings: Bernier is better than Quick.

Some people might think Bernier is better, I don't know. The overwhelming majority of "Bernier fans" just want him to get enough starts so we know how good he is.

If anything, it's the Quick fans who have already decided how good Bernier is without knowing. Sounds ridiculous, but we all think like that sometimes.
Best case scenario? Why don't you tell me what's the worst case scenario? Remember, we are talking about getting rid of Quick BEFORE we know how good Bernier is. This off-season. So... we don't know how good Bernier is. We only know that Quick is really good. But we trade him anyway. Ok, your turn now, tell me what the worst case scenario is.

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03-04-2012, 04:56 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by livingminimal View Post
I chuckle when I read people wanting Bernier to play in a 1A 1B thing.

Why?

Do you really think Bernier is going to out perform Quick? By what margin? A goaltender can't play much better than Quick. He's the #1. Until he's usurped, he should get ice time accordingly.
its pretty obvious that JQ is being overworked, hes in the top 5 goalies for TOI which is ludicrous considering the talent we have with Bernier. he needs more ice time to develop and hes not getting it. he will be a #1 goalie one day...whether its with the Kings or some other team

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03-04-2012, 04:57 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
Best case scenario? Why don't you tell me what's the worst case scenario? Remember, we are talking about getting rid of Quick BEFORE we know how good Bernier is. This off-season. So... we don't know how good Bernier is. We only know that Quick is really good. But we trade him anyway. Ok, your turn now, tell me what the worst case scenario is.
No we're not. I didn't say anything about trading Quick. I just said that best case scenario is that Bernier is better than Quick. Everybody should want him to be better than Quick. He'll be an RFA longer and a lower cap hit.

Worst case would be all our goalies sucking from here on out.

I don't agree with not resigning Quick. That's your overly defensive "Quick Fan" stance speaking, not me.

I think Quick is better.
I think we should resign Quick.
I think Quick is more than good enough to be #1 here.

I think Bernier hasn't had a chance to show how good he is.
I think Bernier could be better.
I think it's in the Kings best interests to know how good Bernier is.
I think it's too late in the season to start giving Bernier more starts.
I think Terry Murray must have devised an intricate and revolutionary equation in order to discover the worst way to handle two young, promising goaltenders.

I know Bernier is an RFA.
Quick will deserve a higher cap hit this season than Bernier would if he played lights out next season.
Therefore: I think it's in the Kings best interests that Bernier is the better goalie.

If it's true then we get:
A better goaltender, under a low cap hit for the next season who will probably remain at a lower cap hit than Quick for the next 3-4 seasons.

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03-04-2012, 05:08 PM
  #123
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I don't agree with this whole notion that "we don't know if Bernier is good". We have all seen him play quite a bit and I think it's safe to say he is a good goaltender... What we don't know yet is if he is better then Quick. But I'm sure if you look at his starts over the last couple years that his stats are very comparable and that is in a much more difficult situation.

Worst case scenario Bernier is only a average #1 goalie, best case scenario is he is better then Quick. Likeley situation is that he is similar.

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03-04-2012, 05:08 PM
  #124
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SMoneyMonkey, I read your last post in this thread and you are not even talking about trading Quick. So I don't know why do you respond to our posts, if these posts are obviously not directed at you. Leave replies to those who are suggesting trading Quick, because they BELIEVE that Bernier is going to be better anyway.

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03-04-2012, 05:14 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
I don't agree with this whole notion that "we don't know if Bernier is good". We have all seen him play quite a bit and I think it's safe to say he is a good goaltender... What we don't know yet is if he is better then Quick. But I'm sure if you look at his starts over the last couple years that his stats are very comparable and that is in a much more difficult situation.

Worst case scenario Bernier is only a average #1 goalie, best case scenario is he is better then Quick. Likeley situation is that he is similar.
As much as I am one of those who say that goalie stats are overrated, I don't think that goalie position is overrated. If there is a good chance for us to have a very good goalie instead of just average, I don't think we should let that chance slip out of our hands. We can go with "average" goalie only if there is no other way.

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