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Carey Price: What's he worth?

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Old
03-02-2012, 08:42 PM
  #76
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Let's just all be thankful that Don Meehan isn't his agent, or we'd get ****ed one way or the other.

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03-02-2012, 08:55 PM
  #77
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I'd be alright with $5.5M/yr for 5 or 6 years...

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03-02-2012, 09:28 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
There's no need. We had many plain average goalies before Price.
Realtively speaking we've been pretty spoiled. The rest of the team has drifted between garbage and fair, but has been often propped up by better than average goaltending: Theo was an MVP, Huet was a legit all star, Halak had the playoff urn and Price means that at least one part of the team is addressed long term.

There was the short stretch where Theo started to fall apart

A lot of teams would kill to have had Montreal's run of goaltending.

As to Price, I'll guess 6/$36M, if the cap hit comes up less than 6 I'll be happy.

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Old
03-02-2012, 10:06 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
I loved Halak. He's just one year older than Price and can still be tagged as a "Developing" goalie.
Not that it changes anything you said, or is even much of a difference but Halak is a bit more than 2 years older than Carey, not 1.

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Old
03-02-2012, 10:46 PM
  #80
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8 years at 4.75 ...increase the term to lower the cap hit. Every scout, every GM knows hes a franchise goalie...any kid on HF that thinks otherwise...well you're not a GM or a scout for a reason.

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03-02-2012, 10:58 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
8 years at 4.75 ...increase the term to lower the cap hit. Every scout, every GM knows hes a franchise goalie...any kid on HF that thinks otherwise...well you're not a GM or a scout for a reason.
And your scout/GM skill tell you a franchise goalie is worth 4.75m/years ?

Your GM skill should have told you that Mr.Universe signed for 5.667... (yes I know he was UFA ... but that not the point)

Anyone that think Price will sign a long term deal under 5 millions...well ... is obviously not following the NHL.


Last edited by ProMath: 03-02-2012 at 11:06 PM.
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03-02-2012, 11:29 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
5 million a year would be a steal. Price is a top 5 goalie in the league, no matter what the idiotic haters say.
He was top 5 last year, but this year (or any other year) far from it. And we won't talk about the playoffs here because it only gets worse.

And no matter how much you wish the idiotic haters were wrong, that's the truth. Sorry.

Quote:
We're not overrating Price either. He is known by most as one of the, if not the, best young goalie in the NHL. Most people say him, Rinne and Rask interchangeable. There's a reason he's the favorite to be Canada's goalie in 2014 guys, it's not because he sucks
Sure you're not overrating him at all...

That's where I draw the line. He's promising yes, and he has the athleticism, size and technique to become quite good but he's not there yet, and goalies are really fickle and hard to predict.

The blind faith in Price is ridiculous really. There's reason to be cautiously optimistic but I'd like to see a repeat of last season and a strong showing in the playoffs before giving him a crazy contract.

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Old
03-02-2012, 11:38 PM
  #83
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Carey Price (age 24) first 262 games of his career (starter in the NHL at age of 20).....2.56 gaa, .916 saves percentage

Other top goalies in the league:
Henrik Lundqvist (age 30) first 265 games (starter in the NHL at age 23)... .2.31 GAA .916 saves percentage

Ryan Miller (Age 31) first 264 games (starter in the NHL at age 25)... 2.62 GAA .910 saves percentage

Pekka Rinne (Age 29) first 231 games (starter in the NHL at age of 26) 2.33 GAA .922 saves percentage

Roberto Luongo (Age 32) first 266 games (starter in the NHL at age of 22) 2.64 GAA .920 saves percentage

Jon Quick (Age 26) first 234 games (starter in the NHL at age of 22) 2.32 GAA. .916 Saves percentage

Jimmy Howard (Age 27) first 182 games (starter in the NHL at age of 24) 2.42 GAA .917 saves percentage

Mikka Kiprusoff (Age 35) first 309 games (starter in the NHL at age of 28) 2.36 GAA .915 saves percentage

So these are essentially the top goalies in the league (i excluded Thomas because he's an anomaly), all of them became starters in the NHL much later than Price...and Price's stats are pretty comparable to ALL of them while being at the disadvantage of essentially starting right after junior when its common knowledge that a goalie doesn't start hitting his prime until around the age of 27-28.

Just for fun here are Brodeurs stats:
(Age 39) first 305 games (starter in the NHL at the age of 24), 2.17 GAA .915 saves percentage ... keep in mind he was playing the super trap devils too.

In conclusion those of you who are insinuating that Price is 'overrated' or not worth a long term deal, just take a look around you and understand that the BEST is yet to come...

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Old
03-02-2012, 11:41 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by ProMath View Post
And your scout/GM skill tell you a franchise goalie is worth 4.75m/years ?

Your GM skill should have told you that Mr.Universe signed for 5.667... (yes I know he was UFA ... but that not the point)

Anyone that think Price will sign a long term deal under 5 millions...well ... is obviously not following the NHL.
OMG 250K!!! 2 million dollars over 8 years...what is that? a couple darche's?
i just threw out a number with the idea being centered around LONG TERM contract where the cap hit is smaller because of the term. Crazy concept eh?

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03-03-2012, 12:30 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
Carey Price (age 24) first 262 games of his career (starter in the NHL at age of 20).....2.56 gaa, .916 saves percentage

Other top goalies in the league:
Henrik Lundqvist (age 30) first 265 games (starter in the NHL at age 23)... .2.31 GAA .916 saves percentage

Ryan Miller (Age 31) first 264 games (starter in the NHL at age 25)... 2.62 GAA .910 saves percentage

Pekka Rinne (Age 29) first 231 games (starter in the NHL at age of 26) 2.33 GAA .922 saves percentage

Roberto Luongo (Age 32) first 266 games (starter in the NHL at age of 22) 2.64 GAA .920 saves percentage

Jon Quick (Age 26) first 234 games (starter in the NHL at age of 22) 2.32 GAA. .916 Saves percentage

Jimmy Howard (Age 27) first 182 games (starter in the NHL at age of 24) 2.42 GAA .917 saves percentage

Mikka Kiprusoff (Age 35) first 309 games (starter in the NHL at age of 28) 2.36 GAA .915 saves percentage

So these are essentially the top goalies in the league (i excluded Thomas because he's an anomaly), all of them became starters in the NHL much later than Price...and Price's stats are pretty comparable to ALL of them while being at the disadvantage of essentially starting right after junior when its common knowledge that a goalie doesn't start hitting his prime until around the age of 27-28.

Just for fun here are Brodeurs stats:
(Age 39) first 305 games (starter in the NHL at the age of 24), 2.17 GAA .915 saves percentage ... keep in mind he was playing the super trap devils too.

In conclusion those of you who are insinuating that Price is 'overrated' or not worth a long term deal, just take a look around you and understand that the BEST is yet to come...
I agree with your overall opinion on Price, but the goalies you mentioned above are making an average salary of 5.04M/year (and in that I included Rinne's salary increase from 3.4 to 7M next year). Now, you can make a claim that Price is more valuable than some of those guys on that list, but right now, has he proven to be that valuable considering we are dead last in the Eastern Conference? Why should we pay Price significantly more than the average salary of those top goalies? Sadly, I know we will have to overpay for him because other teams will be going after him, but I guarantee whatever we sign him for will be more than he's worth at the moment.

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03-03-2012, 12:33 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
This is all only my opinion. I may be wrong but no one seems to ever say anything negative about this goalie. I'm wondering why.
It's too much work to say anything that isn't pure nectar in the ears of the fanboys. Trust me on that one. You can't criticize a single flaw in fundamentals/approach, or so much as suggest that success might be possible with a goalie other than Price... Too. Much. Work.

Having said that, I'm glad we have him instead of someone else. I'm like you, though, in that I wouldn't necessarily hold on to him for dear life. Niemi can help a good enough team win a Cup (neither Luongo nor Lundqvist has YET), and Halak can help a good enough team chase down the Red Wings for the President's Trophy. That's all I need to know about the threshold of importance when it comes to goaltending - and the need to invest large fractions of the cap in it - in the modern era.

As long as he's not up in the $5+ million realm, I couldn't be much happier with anyone else. Above that, and I'm at least wondering if there's a guy that might do a reasonably similar job for MUCH less money.

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Old
03-03-2012, 12:37 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
OMG 250K!!! 2 million dollars over 8 years...what is that? a couple darche's?
i just threw out a number with the idea being centered around LONG TERM contract where the cap hit is smaller because of the term. Crazy concept eh?

Oh well then ok, my bad !!

I would sign him 3.75 millions per years for 15 years !! That the concept right ? More years, lower the cap hit ... plain in simple !!! Just throwing out a number !! Couple 250k more or less ... who care ... that not the point of the thread to say his value right ?? And lol if you think 2 millions over 8 years doesnt change anything ... I hope we do business someday !!

FYI, go check the average salary the goalie you posted when they signed their long term deal... then check the term. You should notice that 4,75 millions is far off the chart.

Price is different because, like you said, is younger. I really hope you are right and Price accept a very long term contract on a very friendly cap hit (5.25 or less)...but when is the last time a franchise player/goalie accepted that kind of contract ??

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03-03-2012, 01:01 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Failing Hands View Post
I agree with your overall opinion on Price, but the goalies you mentioned above are making an average salary of 5.04M/year (and in that I included Rinne's salary increase from 3.4 to 7M next year). Now, you can make a claim that Price is more valuable than some of those guys on that list, but right now, has he proven to be that valuable considering we are dead last in the Eastern Conference? Why should we pay Price significantly more than the average salary of those top goalies? Sadly, I know we will have to overpay for him because other teams will be going after him, but I guarantee whatever we sign him for will be more than he's worth at the moment.
Can't believe you made an ''average salary'' of all those goalie. There is cleary two category in that list ....

Category 1:
Quick and Howard : Those two havent sign their long term deal yet. There contract and salary can't be compare with the other. Average: 2.025 millions

Category 2:
Rinne, Lundqvist, Miller, Kiprusoff and Luongo Average: 6.25 millions


Price is somewhere in the middle of those 2 category.... but whatever we sign him for ... will be overpayment, so there isnt much to discuss.

Did you think Cole, Gorges, Gionta, Cammalleri, Markov we're all overpayment ??

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Old
03-03-2012, 01:16 AM
  #89
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at the very least, he will get 5.75M

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03-03-2012, 01:22 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ProMath View Post
Can't believe you made an ''average salary'' of all those goalie. There is cleary two category in that list ....

Category 1:
Quick and Howard : Those two havent sign their long term deal yet. There contract and salary can't be compare with the other. Average: 2.025 millions

Category 2:
Rinne, Lundqvist, Miller, Kiprusoff and Luongo Average: 6.25 millions


Price is somewhere in the middle of those 2 category.... but whatever we sign him for ... will be overpayment, so there isnt much to discuss.

Did you think Cole, Gorges, Gionta, Cammalleri, Markov we're all overpayment ??
Exactly, he's somewhere in the middle, which is the average lol...Like I said, you can definitely argue that he's better than some of those guys...Anyways, I think Quick is having a fluke year and Howard is not significant to Detroit's success like Price is to ours. Detroit can make any mediocre goalie look good pretty much. Howard won't be signing for much more than he's making now in his next contract.

My point is, for a guy who is 16th in GAA and 22nd in save %, don't you think it would be a little ridiculous to reward a pretty bad year like that with a hefty long-term contract? Where's the logic in that? What'd he do to earn that type of deal?

Markov - I wouldn't have signed for no more than a year after being absent for basically two years. China doll didn't deserve the contract he got. Way too high-risk...and Gauthier paid the price.

Cammalleri and Gionta - Not really overpayments at the time. I think the length of contract was a little excessive though. Especially for Gionta who was in his 30's at the time of the signing.

Cole and Gorges - No, worth every penny.

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Old
03-03-2012, 01:55 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ProMath View Post
Oh well then ok, my bad !!

I would sign him 3.75 millions per years for 15 years !! That the concept right ? More years, lower the cap hit ... plain in simple !!! Just throwing out a number !! Couple 250k more or less ... who care ... that not the point of the thread to say his value right ?? And lol if you think 2 millions over 8 years doesnt change anything ... I hope we do business someday !!

FYI, go check the average salary the goalie you posted when they signed their long term deal... then check the term. You should notice that 4,75 millions is far off the chart.

Price is different because, like you said, is younger. I really hope you are right and Price accept a very long term contract on a very friendly cap hit (5.25 or less)...but when is the last time a franchise player/goalie accepted that kind of contract ??
Yah, because the difference between 5 million and 4.75 million (which is just a number i threw out there) is the same as the difference between 3.75 and 4.75 million. I could have said 5 million and you would probably not have gone off on a tangent. If we did business together i'd probably make you go bankrupt while i swim in my money like scrooge mcduck but that's another story.

Price will be an RFA, not an UFA..those goalies averaging 6.25 million got those contracts as unrestricted free agents and that's a big difference. The habs can give price 2.75 million on a one year contract pending arbitration if they wanted to because they'd have no competition from a team to "one up them" unless there's an offer sheet. 4.75 million for an RFA goalie is pretty darn good for Carey, how many goalies that have yet to become unrestricted make more than that (jaro makes 3.75)? Giving price a 2 million a year raise on a contract where he isn't an ufa for 2 more seasons after a season where he essentially regressed is a good deal for everyone. Fair MARKET value (see halak) for Price is 3.75 million right now, we give Price 2 million above market for 2 years, so he stays with the team for a longer period and a piece of mind that he'll be making damn good NHL money for 8 more seasons. 6 million for 5 seasons < 4.75 for 8 seasons is more money in carey's pocket in the end while the team gets a better cap hit. From Prices perspective In those 3 years (between the 5 year and 8 year contract) Price's game might drop off, he can become injury prone, who knows? But he's pocketing 8 million dollars more in the end regardless of that.

This is how a successful general manager thinks and functions. And if we can circumvent the cap by giving Price a 12 year deal like kovalchuk or something, i'd be all for it. The point i'm making is to lockup a franchise goalie to the lowest cap hit as possible while capitalizing on the fact that he's an RFA, coming off a mediocre season and the market rate for goalies like him aren't making all that much money. I'm a forward thinker, if i see a player that i think highly of have a bad year...i'd do my best to capitalize on that poor season by extending him to a contract based on that performance knowing full well that he'll bounce back saving you millions in the end. Waiting for players to have a career season before you give them a new contract is one of the most stupid thing you can do as a general manager and so many of them make this mistake.


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Old
03-03-2012, 02:32 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
Yah, because the difference between 5 million and 4.75 million (which is just a number i threw out there) is the same as the difference between 3.75 and 4.75 million. I could have said 5 million and you would probably not have gone off on a tangent. If we did business together i'd probably make you go bankrupt while i swim in my money like scrooge mcduck but that's another story.

Price will be an RFA, not an UFA..those goalies averaging 6.25 million got those contracts as unrestricted free agents and that's a big difference. The habs can give price 2.75 million on a one year contract pending arbitration if they wanted to because they'd have no competition from a team to "one up them" unless there's an offer sheet. 4.75 million for an RFA goalie is pretty darn good for Carey, how many goalies that have yet to become unrestricted make more than that (jaro makes 3.75)? Giving price a 2 million a year raise on a contract where he isn't an ufa for 2 more seasons after a season where he essentially regressed is a good deal for everyone. Fair MARKET value (see halak) for Price is 3.75 million right now, we give Price 2 million above market for 2 years, so he stays with the team for a longer period and a piece of mind that he'll be making damn good NHL money for 8 more seasons. 6 million for 5 seasons < 4.75 for 8 seasons is more money in carey's pocket in the end while the team gets a better cap hit. From Prices perspective In those 3 years (between the 5 year and 8 year contract) Price's game might drop off, he can become injury prone, who knows? But he's pocketing 8 million dollars more in the end regardless of that.

This is how a successful general manager thinks and functions. And if we can circumvent the cap by giving Price a 12 year deal like kovalchuk or something, i'd be all for it. The point i'm making is to lockup a franchise goalie to the lowest cap hit as possible while capitalizing on the fact that he's an RFA, coming off a mediocre season and the market rate for goalies like him aren't making all that much money. I'm a forward thinker, if i see a player that i think highly of have a bad year...i'd do my best to capitalize on that poor season by extending him to a contract based on that performance knowing full well that he'll bounce back saving you millions in the end. Waiting for players to have a career season before you give them a new contract is one of the most stupid thing you can do as a general manager and so many of them make this mistake.
Why don't you stop ''throwing number'' and say the value you think Price would sign for ? Is it that hard ? It doesnt take 10 page to say that... or is it because you don't want to look like a fool in 4 month ??

We Agree that Price has franchise goalie potential ? He isnt there yet ... but he could become as good as the goalie you mentioned on that list right ?

Simple thing ... that I thought you would have realize a long time ago...

Why does all the Goalie you mentioned ... havent took a deal like the one you described ?? Cuz it's obviously not in their best interest...

Henrik Lundqvist as an Exemple.

Before signing is big contract, took a 1 years deal @ 4.250 millions.
Then sign 6 years @ 6.875 millions

I would'nt be surprise if Carey follow the same path. Signing a short term deal...take 1 season to prove he can get the job done... then sign the big contract.

For the last part ... thanks for pointing the obvious. That usually right there that his agent will say: Hello.

Have fun Mr.Manager !!!

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Old
03-03-2012, 03:59 AM
  #93
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I've been a HFBoards lurker for many years never having felt the need to put in my say since someone would always be of similar mind. But now, no one else seems to think what I'm thinking or is afraid to say it because of a suspicion that they'd be ridiculed or that they would be called a poor fan. I felt compelled to write a post.

I'm a fan of the Canadiens as a team and goalies as a position. I've loved, hated and been ambivalent about many goalies since the 70s. I've loved Tretiak, and Esposito, wondered at the awkward movements of young Dryden, mourned the early loss of Pelle Lindbergh, hoped for Hackett to beat his vertigo to be what he could, laughed in joy at Hasek's flopping saves, marvelled at the brilliance of Roy and Halak in their magical playoff runs... I could go on and on.

But that is just to preface my opinion (which seems to be a lonely one). It's this - I never liked Theodore, and just like Theodore, I don't like Carey Price.

People seem to have a collective unconscious agreement that Price is the Canadiens' goalie now and well into the future. There are threads speculating about how much to pay him and for how long. They talk about the great lateral movement and positioning. They say he is a franchise goalie and franchise goalies are paid top dollar. Statistics are used to validate their claims to his greatness or potential therein. Forgive me but my memory is poor - was Theodore not also assumed to be a great goalie with a great future?
(I do not mean to compare goaltending techniques, only the general consensus of opinion on ability).

What makes me not like Price? I regret I am not supported by the data. The numbers say he is a number one. I only have my gut feeling based on observing his goaltending and perhaps comparing it in my mind to great goalies I have watched in the past. Subconsciously, I was weary of Price, even in his great season last year. Maybe it was the Umberger goals in the Philadelphia series a few years ago that made me turn on him - goals that made my stomach turn and my heart ache for someone else in front of that net. Maybe it was the Boston series before that that had already cemented my opinion.

And again, I am not arguing based on his ability. He obviously has the technique. It's that something you can never put a finger on. And I am certain he doesn't have that "thing". Even if the team was doing well this year, he is not a goalie I want to go to battle for or with.

But now with the team in flux, we want to sign this fellow to a long term deal at superstar wages. It is a mistake. The management of the team made an error in trading Halak instead of riding a tandem to reveal the true identity of the hero in the mask. My wish is that it does not make a second one by rooting us to this particular goalie in an unhealthy financial and performance situation.

My criticism does not come without a recommendation. You may view it as naive. I believe in my heart that we should trade Price while the community at large holds him in high regard.

This is all only my opinion. I may be wrong but no one seems to ever say anything negative about this goalie. I'm wondering why.
Shoulda stayed in the shadows buddy. Seems like you spent a lot of time on this tripe.

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03-03-2012, 04:11 AM
  #94
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If theres 1 good outcome from this season its that because of Pierre Gauthiers total screw up with the team and especially our defence we could potentially be saving 1 million + on Price per year for the next 5 years.

That and the great play from our younger players like Pacioretty, Desharnais, White and Emelin makes me think that this 1 messed up season could potentially really help us in the next few years and especially if we draft top 3.

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03-03-2012, 04:12 AM
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He is already in his prime.. too bad he has an AHL team playing in front of him.. If he was a Blues or a Bruins, he would be A Vezina winner..
He's in his prime??

I hope not. There is plenty of room for improvement in his game.

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03-03-2012, 05:50 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
5 million a year would be a steal. Price is a top 5 goalie in the league, no matter what the idiotic haters say.

We're not overrating Price either. He is known by most as one of the, if not the, best young goalie in the NHL. Most people say him, Rinne and Rask interchangeable. There's a reason he's the favorite to be Canada's goalie in 2014 guys, it's not because he sucks


I love Price as much as most Habs fan, but he's not a Top-5 goalie in the league --- at least not without serious consideration.

1. Tim Thomas
2. Henrik Lundqvist
3. Pekka Rinne

Those are the Top-3, IMO.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no way you can rank Price so easily above;

Tukka Rask, Cory Schneider, Roberto Luongo, Jimmy Howard, Jonathan Quick, Jaroslav Halak -- Those guys are all right in the running with Price, IMO.

There are some other guys up there, but their age would all make them less interesting than Price. Or they are having a great season but need to prove it for another year or two before you can consider.

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03-03-2012, 07:27 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
He's worth about 4.5M.

He's good, but that's about it.
Got anyone better in mind we can lock up the next 4-5 years, while we concentrate on improving at D and F?

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03-03-2012, 07:33 AM
  #98
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at the very least, he will get 5.75M
Agree

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03-03-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
It's too much work to say anything that isn't pure nectar in the ears of the fanboys. Trust me on that one. You can't criticize a single flaw in fundamentals/approach, or so much as suggest that success might be possible with a goalie other than Price... Too. Much. Work.

Having said that, I'm glad we have him instead of someone else. I'm like you, though, in that I wouldn't necessarily hold on to him for dear life. Niemi can help a good enough team win a Cup (neither Luongo nor Lundqvist has YET), and Halak can help a good enough team chase down the Red Wings for the President's Trophy. That's all I need to know about the threshold of importance when it comes to goaltending - and the need to invest large fractions of the cap in it - in the modern era.

As long as he's not up in the $5+ million realm, I couldn't be much happier with anyone else. Above that, and I'm at least wondering if there's a guy that might do a reasonably similar job for MUCH less money.
This man understands things.

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Old
03-03-2012, 07:56 AM
  #100
bsl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
Let me reiterate that my position is not supported by statistics. Again, I agree that the numbers say he is a number one. One can also state that at 24, his numbers compare well with elite goalies. So yes, ridicule can certainly be a response since all I've posited to counter it is "feeling" based on a historical reference of having watched many elite goalies for 4 decades.

I do wholeheartedly agree with the presumption that the defense this season has caused an aberration from his above average statistics. My opinion is not formulated on watching him give up goals due to poor defense and which cannot be saved. I believe I can differentiate situations where the goalie is "not responsible".

But a great goalie... well a great goalie can do miraculous things and sometimes people are not even aware of how wonderous some saves are or how in tune the goalies can be. There is a reason Price is relatively below average on shootouts, reasons that for me may fall into the suspicion that learned technique has masked the absence of the spirit of a goaltender to defend, protect, to be the final stop. Again, I may be wrong but I just wanted people to entertain the possibility that what they are watching in Price is not necessarily "glorious".
I know what you mean, and I have seen what you have seen. I also played nets at a decent level as a kid.

Technique is VERY important, as we all know. I have no worries with Price on this.

Size is a huge advantage. Again. I am very big on Price for this.

Now: What you are talking about is something else, something that all GREAT goalies have:

Stop the damn puck in any way you can, do whatever it takes, including slashing opposing forwards, pushing them out of the way, putting your face in front of the puck if that's the only thing left that will stop it. Defend your net at all cost.

I don't see this aggression and anger in Price yet, but I believe that soon someone will teach him this , that it is the difference between very good, and great. The difference between doing well in the playoffs and winning the cup.

So I agree with you, I understand why your feeling is not quite right.

But I stick with Price.

He has to cross that line from being the perfect pro, to being a maniac. All great goalies are maniacs. I think he has it in him.

Pay him well for 5 years. If we're going to challenge for a cup in the next 5 years, who else is available? Any ideas?

If we do sign him for 5, we'll be lucky, because I think he won't sign beyond three. It's called Unrestricted free Agency at age 27.

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