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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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Old
03-03-2012, 09:52 AM
  #1076
FF de Mars
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not. Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not. The world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence, determination and hard work make the difference. – Calvin Coolidge

Here's a small quote I like.

If anybody ever played a sport and had success you know Grigorenko lacks a bit of passion.
I love your comparison. It's true. Hard work is important. But Grigorenko didn't get to where he is by slacking. Let me use your scheme of things and switch it around. I would much rather draft the out of the box Einstein than the well rounded Academic PhD.

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Old
03-03-2012, 09:52 AM
  #1077
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Lacking that extra gear doesn't mean you are lazy. Sometimes it does, sometimes it's just ones temperament.

I don't think Kostitsyn was lazy. He had limited hockey IQ and he didn't get fired up, so when he wasn't focused it's easy to interpret his actions as lazy if you didn't watch him regularly. The man was a tank and was willing to track back even if he wasn't that good at it.

Sometimes even the most dedicated players just can't keep up sustained energy.
Yep.
If you want to see a lazy player go at your local icerink. No profesional should be ever called lazy. Certainly some dont have the drive some have but its doesnt mean they are lazy.

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Old
03-03-2012, 09:54 AM
  #1078
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Brunet's paper about the top 5 picks:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...7_accueil_POS1

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Old
03-03-2012, 09:59 AM
  #1079
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I wish Brunet would do some fact checking.

Forsberg is playing in the Allsvenskan.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:00 AM
  #1080
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Brunet's paper about the top 5 picks:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...7_accueil_POS1
What a funny coincidence that each prospect comparison to an NHLer is exactly identical to every of my comparison in my articles.

http://hockeylobby.blogspot.com/

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:01 AM
  #1081
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So could some random guy in the 6th round. Your point is moot.

People are judging the draft based on what they have to work with at the moment.
I'm not talking about some random chance here. I'm saying it's a strong possibility that Galchenyuk and/or Forsberg will be the best forwards to come out of this draft. And yes, this is based on what we have to work with.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:02 AM
  #1082
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Yep, he might be a 100 points player. He might break Gretzky record also who knows.

It's more likely not to happen.
I know you're a big fan of him. I know you're also a big fan of the Remparts. But just try and be realistic and put your emotions aside.

Hard-worker side board eating machine/forechecking machine are what this teams need. Its what any teams needs over talent.
There's many example of this in the NHL . Nikita Filatov, Burmistov and others are all super talented and to an extreme. But they lack the drive to make it happen really... I loved every second of Andrei Kostitsyn play here...But was he the hardest worker ?(not taking this year in count cause he was pretty much one of the hardest worker...)

Oh and FYI Andrei Kostitsyn was also a training freak...
A lot of people said John Tavares lacked the 'drive' you're talking about. Matt Duchene was the hard worker and he became the #1 prospect for a lot of people.

Same thing with Couturier... even Taylor Hall.

Every case is unique... you can't compare Grigorenko with Kostitsyn, Filatov or Burmistrov.

What I know about Grigorenko is that everybody playing with him, coaching him or even the media have only praises for him.

I see him as a future 80-90 pts 1st line center... but if I'm wrong I won't be afraid to say so. I wouldn't mind adding Yakupov, Galchenyuk or Forsberg. But if Habs don't add one of the four or prefer a lesser forward or a defenseman to Grigorenko, I'll be very disappointed, not because I like Grigs, but because he's the kind of center they need.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:05 AM
  #1083
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
A lot of people said John Tavares lacked the 'drive' you're talking about. Matt Duchene was the hard worker and he became the #1 prospect for a lot of people.

Same thing with Couturier... even Taylor Hall.

Every case is unique... you can't compare Grigorenko with Kostitsyn, Filatov or Burmistrov.

What I know about Grigorenko is that everybody playing with him, coaching him or even the media have only praises for him.

I see him as a future 80-90 pts 1st line center... but if I'm wrong I won't be afraid to say so. I wouldn't mind adding Yakupov, Galchenyuk or Forsberg. But if Habs don't add one of the four or prefer a lesser forward or a defenseman to Grigorenko, I'll be very disappointed, not because I like Grigs, but because he's the kind of center they need.
You're absolutely right.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:11 AM
  #1084
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Yep, he might be a 100 points player. He might break Gretzky record also who knows.

It's more likely not to happen.
I know you're a big fan of him. I know you're also a big fan of the Remparts. But just try and be realistic and put your emotions aside.

Hard-worker side board eating machine/forechecking machine are what this teams need. Its what any teams needs over talent.
There's many example of this in the NHL . Nikita Filatov, Burmistov and others are all super talented and to an extreme. But they lack the drive to make it happen really... I loved every second of Andrei Kostitsyn play here...But was he the hardest worker ?(not taking this year in count cause he was pretty much one of the hardest worker...)

Oh and FYI Andrei Kostitsyn was also a training freak...
I know where you're coming from and personally I'd draft Grigorenko behind Yakupov, Forsberg, Galchenyuk (assuming his knee checks out), Dumba, and Murray because I'm scared about all this talk about him. However, if we draft him, I'd be thrilled. I'm just going by what I hear and then I naturally assume the absolute worst, but if we draft him, that means we will have scouted him intensely, will have interviewed him probably multiple times, will have interviewed Patrick Roy and others affiliated with the Remparts multiple times, and will have come to the conclusion that there isn't an issue or there's less of an issue than we believe and/or the potential payoff (in all facets, not just regular season offensive numbers) vs the risk still makes him a better prospect than the next guy on the list.

If we end up drafting him, we'll have a big centre who's putting up 53-38-42-80 in his rookie year, who's character and drive checks out, or at least who's character and drive checks out enough that some really smart hockey minds that have done their due diligence think he's worth the risk. Don't hate the pick before it happens based on secondary sources when the people making the pick will be examining all the primary sources and more of the secondary sources.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:12 AM
  #1085
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One thing is for sure: the playoffs are going to be huge in determining where Grigorenko gets picked. If he shows up and elevates his implication level and determination, he could very well overtake Yakupov and be picked first overall. Otherwise, he will be tagged as a player with all the talent in the world, who can make unreal plays out of nothing but that doesn't really help you win when it counts. In that case, where he falls will be anyone's guess.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:15 AM
  #1086
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One thing is for sure: the playoffs are going to be huge in determining where Grigorenko gets picked. If he shows up and elevates his implication level and determination, he could very well overtake Yakupov and be picked first overall. Otherwise, he will be tagged as a player with all the talent in the world, who can make unreal plays out of nothing but that doesn't really help you win when it counts. In that case, where he falls will be anyone's guess.
Agreed. Playofss will be very important for his draft status.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:17 AM
  #1087
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All-in-all. I have a man-crush on Forsberg.
He's my pick out of anyone(Not named nail.)

But like you all said, i'd be happy with all 4 of the guys.

I know all 4 are going to play in the NHL. Galchenyuk is the biggest question mark wether or not he will make it soon. I know they all will have success and it's not even dumb to say that Grigorenko/Yakupov could be 90 points guys. I'm just going with the style of play I like the most and thats all..

My choice is Forsberg. And its mind boggling how underrated he is here.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:18 AM
  #1088
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I'm not talking about some random chance here. I'm saying it's a strong possibility that Galchenyuk and/or Forsberg will be the best forwards to come out of this draft. And yes, this is based on what we have to work with.
That's kind of like, your opinion.

The pros seem to have come to the consensus that Yakupov and Grigs are the top 2 because they're the only top end, elite talent this draft has. After that, it comes down to preference.

It could also be possible that Grigs falls from here to draft day, and the only reasons that would justify this are : he's not considered that superstar talent so he's one amongst the bunch of the top 8-10 of the best available OR a player currently behind solidifies his position to the point that he can be considered a superstar talent (could be more than one).

But at this point, the general consensus is that there's a crystalized top 2, with a few people hating on Grigorenko, but it's been proven most of the argument over the Grigs hate is related to his lingering injury and off-base perception.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:19 AM
  #1089
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
All-in-all. I have a man-crush on Forsberg.
He's my pick out of anyone(Not named nail.)

But like you all said, i'd be happy with all 4 of the guys.

I know all 4 are going to play in the NHL. Galchenyuk is the biggest question mark wether or not he will make it soon. I know they all will have success and it's not even dumb to say that Grigorenko/Yakupov could be 90 points guys. I'm just going with the style of play I like the most and thats all..

My choice is Forsberg. And its mind boggling how underrated he is here.
You can't really judge a player you haven't seen play. I'd like to say good things about Forsberg but I only saw him in the final against Russia...

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #1090
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Agreed. Playofss will be very important for his draft status.
It'll also be huge for Galchenyuk. If he produces at an outrageous rate, he will jump ahead of Grigorenko.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:33 AM
  #1091
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not. Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not. The world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence, determination and hard work make the difference. – Calvin Coolidge

Here's a small quote I like.

If anybody ever played a sport and had success you know Grigorenko lacks a bit of passion.
Two things. Patrick Roy played a sport and had success, he doesn't seem to think that.

Second, Calvin Coolidge was a TERRIBLE president.

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:54 AM
  #1092
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It'll also be huge for Galchenyuk. If he produces at an outrageous rate, he will jump ahead of Grigorenko.
I have alot of faith that Galchenyuk will become a very good NHLer but I'd be surprised if he was able to put up the numbers which would cause him to leap-frog Grigorenko... I expect he will need some time to get back to 100% after coming back from a major knee injury.

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03-03-2012, 11:05 AM
  #1093
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I have alot of faith that Galchenyuk will become a very good NHLer but I'd be surprised if he was able to put up the numbers which would cause him to leap-frog Grigorenko... I expect he will need some time to get back to 100% after coming back from a major knee injury.
But if he proves he's healthy in the playoffs, and that he can produce, teams will likely value his effort and two-way play more than Grigorenko's one-dimensional play.

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03-03-2012, 11:10 AM
  #1094
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LOL @ comparing Grigorenko to Andrei Kostitsyn and Alex Kovalev. These two players have terrible hockey IQ. They have no freaking idea of what to do when they're on the ice. They also have below-average vision. Those two aspects are the strenghts in Grigorenko's game. Completly different types of hockey players.

And Grigorenko is definitely not the head case that Filatov is/was.

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03-03-2012, 11:12 AM
  #1095
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If anybody ever played a sport and had success you know Grigorenko lacks a bit of passion.
Right, so I guess Patrick Roy never played hocked and had success ?

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Old
03-03-2012, 11:18 AM
  #1096
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You can't really judge a player you haven't seen play. I'd like to say good things about Forsberg but I only saw him in the final against Russia...
Did he play in this game? Probably not more than 2-3 shifts cause I dont recall seeing him on the ice for the gold medal game..

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Old
03-03-2012, 11:20 AM
  #1097
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A lot of people said John Tavares lacked the 'drive' you're talking about. Matt Duchene was the hard worker and he became the #1 prospect for a lot of people.

Same thing with Couturier... even Taylor Hall.

Every case is unique... you can't compare Grigorenko with Kostitsyn, Filatov or Burmistrov.

What I know about Grigorenko is that everybody playing with him, coaching him or even the media have only praises for him.

I see him as a future 80-90 pts 1st line center... but if I'm wrong I won't be afraid to say so. I wouldn't mind adding Yakupov, Galchenyuk or Forsberg. But if Habs don't add one of the four or prefer a lesser forward or a defenseman to Grigorenko, I'll be very disappointed, not because I like Grigs, but because he's the kind of center they need.
I've never heard Tavares lacks drive. The biggest knocks against him were that he was slow and not very big. Tavares' increased speed is proof you never know, but Tavares is something special. I'm not sure any of these players have the sheer vision for the game that Tavares has.

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Old
03-03-2012, 11:25 AM
  #1098
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I've never heard Tavares lacks drive. The biggest knocks against him were that he was slow and not very big. Tavares' increased speed is proof you never know, but Tavares is something special. I'm not sure any of these players have the sheer vision for the game that Tavares has.
Grgiorenko's IQ and vision is what makes him a potential top pick.

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03-03-2012, 11:29 AM
  #1099
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Grgiorenko's IQ and vision is what makes him a potential top pick.
Of course, but I don't think it's quite Tavares level.

This isn't a knock on Grigorenko, I'm a huge Tavares fan and think he has the most pure hockey vision of any prospect in years. He's able to get the most out of his linemates without the same level of stickhandling that someone like Grigorenko has. It's telling that Tavares is the only recent Islanders draft pick in the NHL right now who is even close to living up to their expectation.

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Old
03-03-2012, 01:22 PM
  #1100
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That's kind of like, your opinion.

The pros seem to have come to the consensus that Yakupov and Grigs are the top 2 because they're the only top end, elite talent this draft has. After that, it comes down to preference.

It could also be possible that Grigs falls from here to draft day, and the only reasons that would justify this are : he's not considered that superstar talent so he's one amongst the bunch of the top 8-10 of the best available OR a player currently behind solidifies his position to the point that he can be considered a superstar talent (could be more than one).

But at this point, the general consensus is that there's a crystalized top 2, with a few people hating on Grigorenko, but it's been proven most of the argument over the Grigs hate is related to his lingering injury and off-base perception.
Galchenyuk has that elite talent potential as well. Going into the year he was going to challenge Yakupov for top spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakicfan View Post
LOL @ comparing Grigorenko to Andrei Kostitsyn and Alex Kovalev. These two players have terrible hockey IQ. They have no freaking idea of what to do when they're on the ice. They also have below-average vision. Those two aspects are the strenghts in Grigorenko's game. Completly different types of hockey players.

And Grigorenko is definitely not the head case that Filatov is/was.
Kovalev had no hockey IQ, and below average vision?

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