HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Too many second-line centers: Worst than ever?

View Poll Results: So, who do you keep?
Desharnais 93 77.50%
Plekanec 83 69.17%
Eller 94 78.33%
Leblanc 93 77.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-03-2012, 01:07 PM
  #26
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Desharnais is not going anywhere. I would trade plekanec and eller before him.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:08 PM
  #27
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Our centers are the last of our problems. We actually might have 2 first line centers. How about getting decent wingers and dmen.

Oh and Plekanec on the third line??

EDIT: And again, there aren't a signle truly dominant team in the league in the cap era. There's no need to try to be better than the 90's Avanlache and Red Wings. We need to be better than '12 Rangers, who have Richards and Stepan as their top-2 centers.

Add a good top-6 winger, a top-4 dman, and Markov, and we are as good as anyone in this league.
That's pretty much it !

There is no more than 12 to 15 really dominating centers in this leagues and Pittsburg got two of them (Malkin and Crosby).

The last really true #1 centers we had were Turgeon and Koivu in the frst half of his carreer.(maybe Damphousse).

Habs had many opportunities to draft one, especially in 2003 and 2006. And they didn't.

Of course they could draft a solid one this year (a potential good one, not a sure bet) - Grigo or Galcheniuk. but these kids won't play next season at NHL level, and if they ever play, it will be on a bottom line with limited minutes.

Let's find a real solid top-two line wingers + a tp-four d-man or a gritty physical bottom pairing d-man like O'Brien, Erskine or Peckham.


I have no problems with the 3 centers we have, but Habs must find better wingers for Plekanec, for sure.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:15 PM
  #28
Ghetto Sangria
Groupthink
 
Ghetto Sangria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,895
vCash: 500
holy crap this is the most even 4 option poll i've ever seen lol

Ghetto Sangria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:18 PM
  #29
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
That's pretty much it !

There is no more than 12 to 15 really dominating centers in this leagues and Pittsburg got two of them (Malkin and Crosby).

The last really true #1 centers we had were Turgeon and Koivu in the frst half of his carreer.(maybe Damphousse).

Habs had many opportunities to draft one, especially in 2003 and 2006. And they didn't.

Of course they could draft a solid one this year (a potential good one, not a sure bet) - Grigo or Galcheniuk. but these kids won't play next season at NHL level, and if they ever play, it will be on a bottom line with limited minutes.

Let's find a real solid top-two line wingers + a tp-four d-man or a gritty physical bottom pairing d-man like O'Brien, Erskine or Peckham.


I have no problems with the 3 centers we have, but Habs must find better wingers for Plekanec, for sure.
Not to mention it's easier to find top line winger than top line centers. The easiest way to get a franchise center is through the draft anyway. Plekanec isn't going to get us a franchise player unless you throw in a young player or the player in question has a shocking contract and probably isn't a franchise player anymore to begin with - aka Lecavalier.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:19 PM
  #30
Hero
Raptors 13/14
 
Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,874
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
boston has too many 2nd line centers...
Depth = championships in new NHL

Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:26 PM
  #31
GeneralManager*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Depth = championships in new NHL
exactly...but apparently in montreal as soon as you get a semblance of depth and create a competitive atmosphere you trade away that depth for second rate fodder..it's the Habs way.

GeneralManager* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:29 PM
  #32
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
exactly...but apparently in montreal as soon as you get a semblance of depth and create a competitive atmosphere you trade away that depth for second rate fodder..it's the Habs way.
The real collapse - besides the Roy/Keane trade to Col.- - happened when they traded Turgeon instead of moving Damphousse to the LW where he started and was the mst succesful in his carreer. A Turgeon-Koivu center combo would had been great.


Center line is certainly not the weakest part of this team.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:31 PM
  #33
Beatnik
Registered User
 
Beatnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,638
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Beatnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
exactly...but apparently in montreal as soon as you get a semblance of depth and create a competitive atmosphere you trade away that depth for second rate fodder..it's the Habs way.
To be fair it's more a hockey fan way. Most NHL teams, including the Habs, understand that depth is important. How many D did we have to start the year?


It's the fans, everywhere, that see any depth at all as an occasion of trade. Also, on HF, people love prospects so much that they are afraid that any depth will prevent the kids from playing. Oh and we enormously overrate the incoming rookies.

Beatnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:34 PM
  #34
GeneralManager*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 238
vCash: 500
it isn't...why shouldn't we make a kid like eller work his butt off to get more minutes than our first round pick? Everyone benefits from it. Our problem right now is defense, what changed from last years 6th place finish? Defense! Our 5 on 5 offense (not including PP) has actually improved drastically.

GeneralManager* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:34 PM
  #35
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
To be fair it's more a hockey fan way. Most NHL teams, including the Habs, understand that depth is important. How many D did we have to start the year?


It's the fans, everywhere, that see any depth at all as an occasion of trade. Also, on HF, people love prospects so much that they are afraid that any depth will prevent the kids from playing. Oh and we enormously overrate the incoming rookies.
If Internet would had existed in the 70's, some fans would had required to trade Peter Mahovlich or Jacques Lemaire... And trade one or two of Robinson, Savard or Lapointe....

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:36 PM
  #36
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I love Plekanec, I don't want him to leave. But when your #1 centreman is a 5'6 undrafted player, there's a problem. But even with his great season, Desharnais probably has low value.

I think the best bet is to try and package Plekanec for a better centreman, and push Desharnais and Eller down on the depth chart to #2 and #3. Leblanc can stay on the wing and move to centre if there is an injury. The new drafted player can take his time and progress.
I disagree. Out of all forwards size is probably least important for a 1st line center, especially if he has big wingers to fight on the boards (which he has). Size is always more important for wingers anyways, except perhaps for a checking line center.

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:37 PM
  #37
Beatnik
Registered User
 
Beatnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,638
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Beatnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
The real collapse - besides the Roy/Keane trade to Col.- - happened when they traded Turgeon instead of moving Damphousse to the LW where he started and was the mst succesful in his carreer. A Turgeon-Koivu center combo would had been great.


Center line is certainly not the weakest part of this team.

Damphousse played LW for a while with the Habs but was much better once they moved him at C. I was very mad at the Turgeon trade though, another occasion where we traded a player at his lowest value.


I would draft the best player available.

Beatnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:38 PM
  #38
MsChanandlerBong
The Chan-Chan Man
 
MsChanandlerBong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 597
vCash: 500
Honestly (as someone previously said) both DD and Pleks are producing in the top 30 and although DD is having an amazing year, we can all agree that except for the first 20 games Pleks has been struggling. Draft a winger like Yakupov early first round and put him with Pleks. DD is only going to improve, and its almost guaranteed that Pleks will return to his 70 pt years with 2 1st line wingers like he should be given. I wouldn't give up on Eller yet and I def wouldn't get rid of Leblanc.

MsChanandlerBong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:39 PM
  #39
GeneralManager*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
To be fair it's more a hockey fan way. Most NHL teams, including the Habs, understand that depth is important. How many D did we have to start the year?


It's the fans, everywhere, that see any depth at all as an occasion of trade. Also, on HF, people love prospects so much that they are afraid that any depth will prevent the kids from playing. Oh and we enormously overrate the incoming rookies.
Our fanbase is riddled with a lot of the clueless variety but our past GM's have done a great job of getting rid of our depth. Just look at the Ribeiro and Grabovski situations...we could have had 4 2nd line centers if we played our cards right.

GeneralManager* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:40 PM
  #40
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
Our fanbase is riddled with a lot of the clueless variety but our past GM's have done a great job of getting rid of our depth. Just look at the Ribeiro and Grabovski situations...we could have had 4 2nd line centers if we played our cards right.
Ribeiro ain't a 2nd line center, but a 1st.


Patience with yougsters sometimes pay. Lapierre and Chipchura are key 4th line centers on their respective team.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:41 PM
  #41
YMCMBeaulieu
A$AP MICHEL
 
YMCMBeaulieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,456
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
I have no problems with the 3 centers we have, but Habs must find better wingers for Plekanec, for sure.
I agree, getting Gionta back next year will help Plekanec but getting another good winger for Pleks (would kill to get Parise) needs to be done.

X - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Eller - Leblanc
Moen - White - Blunden

YMCMBeaulieu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 01:54 PM
  #42
Jake5
Registered User
 
Jake5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 620
vCash: 500
1C- Grigorenko/Galchenyuk (no guarantee of course)
2C- Plekanec
3C- Eller
convert Leblanc to wing on 3rd line (Moen-Eller-Leblanc?)
convert Desharnais to wing in the top 6
Plekanec mentors Eller and eventually Eller takes over 2C role and Plek plays out the rest of his career here as 3C

Jake5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 02:05 PM
  #43
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
I agree, getting Gionta back next year will help Plekanec but getting another good winger for Pleks (would kill to get Parise) needs to be done.

X - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Eller - Leblanc
Moen - White - Blunden
I thought he would be better than that....

Gallagher might surprise, but he's darn small. With Gio and DD already up on the top-two lines, we're back to square one like we were with Cammy.,

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 02:10 PM
  #44
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake5 View Post
1C- Grigorenko/Galchenyuk (no guarantee of course)
2C- Plekanec
3C- Eller
convert Leblanc to wing on 3rd line (Moen-Eller-Leblanc?)
convert Desharnais to wing in the top 6
Plekanec mentors Eller and eventually Eller takes over 2C role and Plek plays out the rest of his career here as 3C
Why in the world to people continually insist upon changing the one piece of the center equation which is working the best is beyond perplexing?

Of the Habs current top 3 centers, the only one who might merit strong consideration for the shift to wing would be Eller. He's crummy on face offs and isn't much of a play maker. Shifting him to wing would change his defensive responsibilities-which might be a negative-but on the offensive side of the equation there is little or no downside.

Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 02:12 PM
  #45
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Why in the world to people continually insist upon changing the one piece of the center equation which is working the best?

Of the Habs current top 3 centers, the only one who were merit strong consideration for the shift to wing would be Eller. He's crummy on face offs and isn't much of a play maker. Shifting him to wing would change his defensive responsibilities-which might be a negative-but on the offensive side of the equation there is little or no downside.
He might become the winger Plekanec badly needs. Even then, he is not that offensively gifted.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 02:33 PM
  #46
SpreeEndaz
Registered User
 
SpreeEndaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,541
vCash: 500
Reading this thread, I have to conceed that other solutions are possible that trading our centers away because we have "too many". But you guys mention Grabovski, I think he developed the way he did exactly because he had top 6 playing time with the Leafs in an offensive role. We can't expect to develop offensive prospects in defensive roles forever, something has to be done to give them offensive minutes. If it has to be converting or two into wingers, fine, but leave him on the wings for all season.

SpreeEndaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 02:39 PM
  #47
Undertakerqc
Registered User
 
Undertakerqc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,282
vCash: 500
Plekanec will be gone before his contract is over. He just cannot be depended on.

Undertakerqc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 03:02 PM
  #48
onemorecup*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Failing Hands View Post
The question should be who do you not keep? You're not going to get rid of three and keep one. I'd keep Pleks, Eller and Leblanc. Fetch something for Desharnais while his value's up, especially if he has another good year next year.
the midget is gone if I was Gm while he has some value

Eller and Leblanc shoud be our 2 centers

wtf did we draft Leblanc to play 4th line minutes ?

the dude has solid hockey sense

Pleks and DD moving forward are done with me

how many more Plek years are we going to go with the same result

the midget has no place on the top 6 with any good team which I would like to be one one day , he is just a filler for now


Last edited by onemorecup*: 03-03-2012 at 03:04 PM. Reason: typing
onemorecup* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 03:03 PM
  #49
Jake5
Registered User
 
Jake5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Why in the world to people continually insist upon changing the one piece of the center equation which is working the best is beyond perplexing?

Of the Habs current top 3 centers, the only one who might merit strong consideration for the shift to wing would be Eller. He's crummy on face offs and isn't much of a play maker. Shifting him to wing would change his defensive responsibilities-which might be a negative-but on the offensive side of the equation there is little or no downside.

this is all assuming that Habs draft Grigorenko/Galchenyuk and he becomes an offensive-minded #1C
leaves us with Plek, Eller, Desharnais, Leblanc
Plekanec is (IMO) the very definition of a #2C on a contender (elite 2-way play while still being able to contribute 55-65 points) and is an integral part of the team's PK unit (one of the sole strengths of the team)
so that gives us our top 2 centers..assuming White will be centering a gritty 4th line, that leaves us Eller, Leblanc and Desharnais to center the 3rd line. Desharnais is too small and his game is too skill-based to play effectively in the bottom 6, so I figured he would be worth a shot on wing (dream top 6- Parise/Grigs/Cole, MaxPac/Plek/Desharnais)
and I think if Eller can work on his game a little he he can before a very efficient #3C who could eventually grow into the #2 role

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Plekanec will be gone before his contract is over. He just cannot be depended on.

he certainly can be depended on in a role appropriate to his abilities (#2 Center playing a lot on the PK)
he's been asked to do too much for too long on this team and would benefit greatly from a legit #1C to play behind and take a lot of the offensive load off his shoulders


Last edited by One Man Rock Band: 03-04-2012 at 11:07 AM.
Jake5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2012, 03:18 PM
  #50
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
the midget is gone if I was Gm while he has some value

Eller and Leblanc shoud be our 2 centers

wtf did we draft Leblanc to play 4th line minutes ?

the dude has solid hockey sense

Pleks and DD moving forward are done with me

how many more Plek years are we going to go with the same result

the midget has no place on the top 6 with any good team which I would like to be one one day , he is just a filler for now
Are you talking about a part of your anatomy ?

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.