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Weimer waived

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Old
11-11-2003, 02:47 PM
  #1
Rowsdower
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Weimer waived

Just heard on the NHL board that Weimer has been waived by the Isles.....anyone think it would be a good move to try and scoop him up....he is big and gritty, can score, and IMO would be a much better fit as our 3rd line center than Brian Holzinger......just a thought....I only think he makes like 1.4 million a year....

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11-11-2003, 03:28 PM
  #2
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nah, i dont see it happening. would he really help us out any? i mean, abid is being scratched in for of holzinger, he'll jsut get scratched more.

then of course you know the Pens wont wnt to pay him that much...

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11-11-2003, 04:49 PM
  #3
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I would LOVE to see Wiemer in a Pens uniform. The notion of a 'pure mayhem' line of Webb-Wiemer-Bradley makes me smile like a hungry dog in a meat market.

However, as long as the journeymen fringe (non-mentor) players like McKenna and Holzinger are around, I would hedge my bet that there is about zero chance Wiemer is coming to town - let alone his contract.

Ultimately, my kick in the pants for the team would be...

Out (permanent):
McKenna
Holzinger
(Kraft has one leg out the door - he is permanent as I doubt he clears waivers.)

Out (minors):
Focht
Abid (again, one leg out the door)

In:
Wiemer
Lupaschuk
Surovy
Beech (if Kraft or Abid go out)

Jeez - it's just too bad we couldn't snap our fingers and make this happen!

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:35 PM
  #4
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people are starting to doubt whether this has actualyl been confirmed or not as no other source has reported it yet

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Old
11-11-2003, 07:31 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Schweinehund
I would LOVE to see Wiemer in a Pens uniform. The notion of a 'pure mayhem' line of Webb-Wiemer-Bradley makes me smile like a hungry dog in a meat market.

However, as long as the journeymen fringe (non-mentor) players like McKenna and Holzinger are around, I would hedge my bet that there is about zero chance Wiemer is coming to town - let alone his contract.

Ultimately, my kick in the pants for the team would be...

Out (permanent):
McKenna
Holzinger
(Kraft has one leg out the door - he is permanent as I doubt he clears waivers.)

Out (minors):
Focht
Abid (again, one leg out the door)

In:
Wiemer
Lupaschuk
Surovy
Beech (if Kraft or Abid go out)

Jeez - it's just too bad we couldn't snap our fingers and make this happen!
i don't mind Wiemer, but we'd have to trade McKenna, Holzinger or Berehowsky.

There's no way Focht leaves, he's been good for us. Also, he'd have to pass thorugh waivers.

my OUTS:
-Holzinger
-McKenna
-Berehowsky

my INs:
-Kostopoulos

Also, I won't take out Buchberger out of the lineup, he's been a good leader out there, and he's played good, better then McKenna, Bradley, ...

My lineup
without mario, with Wiemer

Straka-Kraft-Koltsov
Morozov-Fata-Malone
Abid-Eastwood-Kostopoulos
Webb-Buchberger-Wiemer

I would try to trade for Comrie. If he will sign for 1.5 as reported with any team but Edmonton, then it's good.
We need a name like that to sell a couple more seats.
Also, I would try to trade Tarnstrom while his value is up.
With Orpik (our best Dmen) and Lupaschuk (future PP QB) ready, we can afford to loose him.

Wiemer is not bad.
But I would go for a guy like Jason Ward from the Habs. He's been a healthy scratch lately and will go for cheep. He's a better Power forward then Abid.

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Old
11-12-2003, 04:31 AM
  #6
Der Schweinehund
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starkouklos
There's no way Focht leaves, he's been good for us. Also, he'd have to pass thorugh waivers.

my OUTS:
-Holzinger
-McKenna
-Berehowsky
Seriously - who has thought Focht has been good? This is not intended to be snarky, rather, it's more to illustrate the vast divergence of opinion on the guy.

Further, I still have a hard time beating up on Berehowsky (and Bergevin too) as I consider them to have played relatively strong on just a terrible, terrible team. And how I would love to beat up on them I might add...

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11-12-2003, 06:41 AM
  #7
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Why would anyone give up on Kraft NOW? The guy has played 4 games this week, including TWO with decent icetime, and he's produced more than some guys over the whole season...

I'd kick McKenna, Eastwood, Berehowsky and Holzinger out too and replace them with young guys.

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Old
11-12-2003, 07:27 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Why would anyone give up on Kraft NOW? The guy has played 4 games this week, including TWO with decent icetime, and he's produced more than some guys over the whole season...
That sure looks to be a very clear to me, also.

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Old
11-12-2003, 07:59 AM
  #9
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Why would anyone give up on Kraft NOW? The guy has played 4 games this week, including TWO with decent icetime, and he's produced more than some guys over the whole season...
The frustration we have all shared over Kraft is the perceived lag in his development. He hasn't shown much now in parts of three seasons and change.

Do you really expect that 4 games, in which he had a lone two goal outburst, will turn the tide of perception towards Kraft? If anything, this has just continued the same frustrating pattern whereby he shows us the glimmer of hope for a game and then goes away. Suffice to say, we have all had big expectations out of him.

As far as I am concerned, he is at a point where he has temporaily stayed the execution (hence one leg out the door). Give him the icetime in the next few games - let him see if the glimmer might finally be the gem. But at some point, you have to cut the cord.

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11-12-2003, 08:05 AM
  #10
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Well when a guy gets going, you don't trade him, especially since it's a young guy with trouble breaking through...
I suppose last year you thought he had broken through too before Kehoe benched him for no reason?

Let him play 10 games as the first line center.
That's what I've been saying all along.
If he's average, shop him, if he's bad, dump him, and if he's good, then you have your player with full confidence.

I mean he had 2 goals, then it's the Tampa game (not much he can do), and bam he's back to the "third" line.
You call that fair?
You call that "evaluate" a player?

I think we have a great chance at failing 100% his development, and getting another Naslund off our hands.
I seriously think Kraft is the most talented player we have on the team outside Mario.
Why can't the Penguins give him a FAIR chance.
They have NEVER offered him one.

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Old
11-12-2003, 08:18 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Well when a guy gets going, you don't trade him, especially since it's a young guy with trouble breaking through...
I suppose last year you thought he had broken through too before Kehoe benched him for no reason?

Let him play 10 games as the first line center.
That's what I've been saying all along.
If he's average, shop him, if he's bad, dump him, and if he's good, then you have your player with full confidence.

I mean he had 2 goals, then it's the Tampa game (not much he can do), and bam he's back to the "third" line.
You call that fair?
You call that "evaluate" a player?

I think we have a great chance at failing 100% his development, and getting another Naslund off our hands.
I seriously think Kraft is the most talented player we have on the team outside Mario.
Why can't the Penguins give him a FAIR chance.
They have NEVER offered him one.

I hear and empathize with your frustration - I agree with virtually all of your points.

On the flipside though, we all know this guy is a premier stickhandler, has a great goal-scoring touch, and its readily apparent that he has fantastic vision of the ice. He needs to make the best out of the situations that have been handed to him - bad or good, fair or unfair. He's not doing that.

I am not a huge fan of Edzo nor was I a fan of Kehoe. But, I do believe they know hockey and conversely, I don't believe there is any subverted desire to make players fail, just when they are getting hot. So maybe there is something else going on?? I don't know. This is an odd situation. But again, he has to make the best of the situation given to him and not leave any room for debate - which there currently is.

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Old
11-12-2003, 08:21 AM
  #12
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[QUOTE=Der Schweinehund]Seriously - who has thought Focht has been good? This is not intended to be snarky, rather, it's more to illustrate the vast divergence of opinion on the guy.QUOTE]


i think he has played very well and has been one of our best defensemen. he skates very well for a guy his size (IE when he skated his arse off and got back and broke up that play in was in tampa or florida? i cant rem) and made a nice play to tie up the guy, hes been phyiscal and hitting everything that comes to him, clears the front of the net, has good positioning and IMO has been playing very well. i dont know if some realize but this is his first full season in the nhl, so its technically his rookie year and hes had a nice showing so far. the only bad play he made that sticks out was in the bolts game when he gave the puck away, but hey he hasnt been the first.

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11-12-2003, 08:26 AM
  #13
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I]Seriously - who has thought Focht has been good? This is not intended to be snarky, rather, it's more to illustrate the vast divergence of opinion on the guy.[/I]


i think he has played very well and has been one of our best defensemen. he skates very well for a guy his size (IE when he skated his arse off and got back and broke up that play in was in tampa or florida? i cant rem) and made a nice play to tie up the guy, hes been phyiscal and hitting everything that comes to him, clears the front of the net, has good positioning and IMO has been playing very well. i dont know if some realize but this is his first full season in the nhl, so its technically his rookie year and hes had a nice showing so far. the only bad play he made that sticks out was in the bolts game when he gave the puck away, but hey he hasnt been the first.

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Old
11-12-2003, 08:52 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Schweinehund
But, I do believe they know hockey and conversely, I don't believe there is any subverted desire to make players fail, just when they are getting hot. So maybe there is something else going on?? I don't know. This is an odd situation. But again, he has to make the best of the situation given to him and not leave any room for debate - which there currently is.
I agree with that also. They do know more than us . . . however, if we all admitted that it would shut down all hockey message boards in a New York minute! So, I for one will continue to pretend otherwise.

To get serious about this Kraft thing for a second . . . maybe we should put a little bit more focus on who he Kraft is competing for playing time with, and their careers:

Kraft was drafted in 1998 and put up some good numbers with Price Albert and WB/S.

Abid was also drafted in 1998 and other than a big year in Chicoutimi and another when with Halifax . . . he hasn't done squat with his career. Why isn't he under the microscope like Kraft is?

Bradley was drafted two years earlier than the above guys and quite frankly, I've been searching and asking what some of you see in this guy that cuts him the slack he gets for his performance.

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Old
11-12-2003, 10:40 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutdacheez
I agree with that also. They do know more than us . . . however, if we all admitted that it would shut down all hockey message boards in a New York minute! So, I for one will continue to pretend otherwise.

To get serious about this Kraft thing for a second . . . maybe we should put a little bit more focus on who he Kraft is competing for playing time with, and their careers:

Kraft was drafted in 1998 and put up some good numbers with Price Albert and WB/S.

Abid was also drafted in 1998 and other than a big year in Chicoutimi and another when with Halifax . . . he hasn't done squat with his career. Why isn't he under the microscope like Kraft is?

Bradley was drafted two years earlier than the above guys and quite frankly, I've been searching and asking what some of you see in this guy that cuts him the slack he gets for his performance.
None of these guys have Kraft's pedigree nor expectations that are linked to it.
Kraft was the world's best player out of the NHL at one point.
He was not only a force at the junior level, he was also the WJC's MVP, captain of the gold winning team.
When was the last time you saw somebody dominate THAT much in his first pro games (meaning in Wilkes-Barre).
Did he have any period of doubt, progress or anything?
No. That guy got his first few games in the AHL and was already arguably the best AHL player.
At 19, he was the best player in an NHL camp (remember that?).
I think a guy with his pedigree should be given the chance to prove he fails (by being given ample icetime with skilled linemates) rather than a chance to prove he can succeed (by giving him limited icetime with limited linemates in hopes he makes hi best Mario impression).
Not everybody is Mario.
But do you think Hejduk was brought along playing 4 minutes a night with Steve McKenna and Kelly Buchberger? Nope. Straight from the AHL to the Avs top line.

That's what I'm talking about. Put guys in a situation where their failure and success is in THEIR hands.

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Old
11-12-2003, 11:59 AM
  #16
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agreed

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Old
11-12-2003, 12:25 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
At 19, he was the best player in an NHL camp (remember that?).
I do. That was the year Patrick lied to all the prospects with the "if you out perform the vets you stay up" garbage. And sent them down to his brother.
Quote:
I think a guy with his pedigree should be given the chance to prove he fails (by being given ample icetime with skilled linemates) rather than a chance to prove he can succeed (by giving him limited icetime with limited linemates in hopes he makes hi best Mario impression).
Not everybody is Mario.
But do you think Hejduk was brought along playing 4 minutes a night with Steve McKenna and Kelly Buchberger? Nope. Straight from the AHL to the Avs top line.

That's what I'm talking about. Put guys in a situation where their failure and success is in THEIR hands.
Good post, Evilo . . . even though I only say that to those that support the sameposition as I!

How about a second line of: ABID - KRAFT - BRADLEY and give them about three games!

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Old
11-13-2003, 06:03 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariano
That's a laugh! Kraft the best player outside the NHL? That's pure horse manure. When was he ever considered the best player outside the NHL? He did win the MVP at the WJC one year, mostly on the strangth of a hattrick in one game. But that's a far cry from being considered the best player outside the NHL.

Why he can't compare with other players who had that honor - like Jiri Dopita.
or it could have been the fact that he tore up juniors? outside the nhl doesnt mean just europe you know...

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11-13-2003, 10:03 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariano
That's a laugh! Kraft the best player outside the NHL? That's pure horse manure. When was he ever considered the best player outside the NHL? He did win the MVP at the WJC one year, mostly on the strangth of a hattrick in one game. But that's a far cry from being considered the best player outside the NHL.

Why he can't compare with other players who had that honor - like Jiri Dopita.
Yep.
Not only can't you read, but I thought you were banned from the Pens board...
Kraft was once considered the best player outside the NHL. Yes. Live with it.

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Old
11-13-2003, 11:18 AM
  #20
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for those interested, Weimer was claimed by teh wild this afternoon.

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11-13-2003, 11:35 AM
  #21
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He's a type of guy that they could use more of. Should be a good fit.

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Old
11-13-2003, 12:00 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
But do you think Hejduk was brought along playing 4 minutes a night with Steve McKenna and Kelly Buchberger? Nope. Straight from the AHL to the Avs top line.

That's what I'm talking about. Put guys in a situation where their failure and success is in THEIR hands.

You really can't expect a player to play very well on the 4th line. How many points do you think Mario would have gotten if he had never played more than 5 or 6 minutes per game with little if any PP time. It's kind of the same concept as with Fleury. IMO, if he had been the team's 2nd best goalie in camp (and theoretically won the backup job), he probably would have been sent to Cape Breton. What's the point of playing a high-profile prospect/young player very sparingly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface
This is Focht's first year as a penguin, why the hell should we just give up on him now, not all defensemen are great their first year, unless they are star bound. Focht will be a solid performer, give the guy some time, she's shown some promise in games, he makes quite a few mistakes yes, but he does seem to learn from them.
I'll admit that I haven't seen a whole lot of Pens games this season, but in the ones I did see, Focht has been terrible. It always looked to me like he did nothing useful except occasionally hitting someone (which is a plus). Personally, I'd rather see Ross Lupaschuk, Rob Scuderi, or maybe even David Koci in Pittsburgh rather than Focht (from what I've heard about those players, anyway).

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Old
11-14-2003, 05:09 AM
  #23
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=asab I'll admit that I haven't seen a whole lot of Pens games this season, but in the ones I did see, Focht has been terrible. It always looked to me like he did nothing useful except occasionally hitting someone (which is a plus). Personally, I'd rather see Ross Lupaschuk, Rob Scuderi, or maybe even David Koci in Pittsburgh rather than Focht (from what I've heard about those players, anyway).

I kept asking what do you all see in Dan Focht. And, as the games go on it's not like the mistake of coming up the middle against Lecavalier wasn't a glaring mistake . . . but I like the guy's attitude about it. The guy knows he has made mistakes and as anyone who supports the rebuilding process . . . I (we) should have to be able to accept these mistakes also . . . as long as they are learning from them.

I've changed my opinion on Dan Focht (a little bit). At 6' 6" and 245 pounds I say keep him playing. Now if we can also find a way to work Koci and Lupaschuk into that defense.
Hmmm? I'm sure CP thought he was helping the situation by signing Bergevin and Berehowsky but by doing that he has created the log jam that prevents (or at a minimim, slows) the bring up Lupaschuk and Koci. There only one way to do something about it now. I think we have to think a little bit more like that of (Der Schweinehund's suggestion) possibly combining Dickie Tarnstrom with Marty Straka in a deal to someone and then shake ourselves loose of Steve McKenna and Brian Holtzinger.
Those four moves (IF) done for prospects and/or draft choices would save this team $12 million over two years . . . and also give the team SIX positions to fill.

Think of Martin Staka AND Dick Tarnstorm to Vancouver for Umberger and Federov (both question mark prospects) but so what? That's what happens in a reconstruction. Isn't it?

I see something like this . . . the focus is on LESS MENTORING:
Defense:
Orpik - Lupaschuck
Melichar - Rozsival
Focht - Koci
Spares - Bergevin, Berehowsky

Forwards:
Add . . . Kostopoulos, Surovy, and two others from a list of Endicott, Beech, and Murley.

Start to consider reassessing the potential and the real value of Meloche (WB/S) and Abid, Kraft, Webb and Bradley with the Penguins. Do they have a future role, or not. I think the real value of McKenna and Holtzinger have already been made . . . which is IMHO a zero on a scale of 0 to 10. So why have them take up "a learning together" roster spot?

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