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Biggest need ahead: 2nd pairing d-men

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Old
03-03-2012, 06:02 PM
  #1
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Biggest need ahead: 2nd pairing d-men

Thinking of the future of the team. Reaching full potential doesn't work out 100% for every guy, but looking ahead 2-3 years, we potentially have most of the pieces to be a top Stanley Cup contender. So I'm mentioning only our best prospects (F and G) which are there with Florida for the best in the league, and realistic projections for our so-so defense prospects.

Goaltending:
Lehner and Bishop

Top 2 offensive centres:
1. Spezza 2. Turris

Scoring Wingers:
Michalek, Silfverberg, Stone

Zibanejad:
Zibanejad

Good grinders / checkers:
Smith, Foligno, Neil, Greening, Noesen, Prince

Top 2 D
1. Karlsson 2. Cowen

Bottom pairing D
Lots of candidates: Gilroy, Claesson, Borowiecki, Wiercioch


So that leaves a glaring hole: #3 and 4 d-men.

Possible ways to remedy this:
---2012 1st round pick.
---Trade Anderson for someone in 2012 offseason or at 2013 deadline.
---Trade Gonchar at next year's deadline, get a rising prospect that pans out, like Zhitnik for Coburn a few years ago (lucky).
---Get lucky with 1 of the bottom pairing guys: IMO Claesson is most likely.
---Sign a free agent.


Discuss...

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Old
03-03-2012, 06:06 PM
  #2
topshelfie
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Cody Ceci

I still think we need another top line winger for Spezza.

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Old
03-03-2012, 06:11 PM
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Karlstrobe
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Move Prince and Zibanejad to scoring wingers, add a good young D in this years draft; Ceci and maybe sign another via free agency (we have the cap space). Dont trade goalie depth.

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Old
03-03-2012, 06:15 PM
  #4
MAK19
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Garrison
Allen
Carle
Wideman
Suter
Jackman
Stuart
Kuba

are the only UFA options. god i want Ceci

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Old
03-03-2012, 06:26 PM
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ReginKarlssonLehner
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I pray that one of Zibanejad/Stone/Silfverberg becomes a big time scorer. I think 2 of them can be but here's hoping! That's because I think the biggest need is top line scoring and top 4 defense man.

The only thing I'm not worried about? Top 4 defense man are dime a dozen. You can find lots of them but scoring forwards are tough to come by.

My dream scenario is signing Parise and trading up in the draft to get Ceci. Two stones in one off-season. I also think Claesson/Borocop have top 4 potential.

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Old
03-03-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Top 4 defense man are dime a dozen. You can find lots of them
You are very incorrect. Sure, you can get those mediocre 4/5 guys that are always available, but hopefully the guys we get are at least average for 2nd pairing. And if we want to be top contenders, hopefully we get 1 that's good, and 1 at least above average. Solid defensive guys I hope. Average to good 2nd pairing d-men aren't easy to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
but scoring forwards are tough to come by.
I agree. Scoring forwards are harder to find than 2nd pairing d-men.

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Old
03-03-2012, 06:39 PM
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Tuna99
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I agree, and RD would be the first choice as we especially thin there, but LD we also but Boro, Weircoche and Claessen make it slighty less pressing if one of them can handle 20 minutes a night.

And offensive D man at that, need offence as we have many defensive Dmen coming along (Blood, Gryba, Boro, Classen)

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Old
03-03-2012, 07:04 PM
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TSA0402
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Ottawa has lots of needs right now.

If Kuba, Gonchar, Alfredsson leave, then just one RD is the least of concerns. Not to mention, Cowen isn't anywhere close to a top pairing d-man right now. Lee is gone, Wiercioch and Boro are nothing right now.

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Old
03-03-2012, 07:13 PM
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Look you can't just project guys like that. Chances are some of them wont turn out, some will be moved and some will exceed expectations. Look at the Rundblad Turris trade. Everyone was penciling in Rundblad for the next decade and now he is gone. But I can tell you this : Shane Prince wont be a checking/grinder lol

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Old
03-03-2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Ottawa has lots of needs right now.

If Kuba, Gonchar, Alfredsson leave, then just one RD is the least of concerns. Not to mention, Cowen isn't anywhere close to a top pairing d-man right now. Lee is gone, Wiercioch and Boro are nothing right now.

That's why my thread is about what is AHEAD in 2-3 years, when Cowen could be a #2, Boro a #5 or 6, etc. I'm projecting, not talking about this year or next year. And assuming our #1/2 ranked prospects will pay off.

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03-03-2012, 07:36 PM
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TSA0402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlick View Post
That's why my thread is about what is AHEAD in 2-3 years, when Cowen could be a #2, Boro a #5 or 6, etc. I'm projecting, not talking about this year or next year. And assuming our #1/2 ranked prospects will pay off.

All assumptions. You know the problem with assumptions right? Instead of expecting Boro to be a solid bottom pairing d-man and Cowen, being a top pairing d-man. You should be projecting based on medium-low expectations.

Just making a bunch of uneducated projections of all your prospects being top six top four players is foolish.

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Old
03-03-2012, 07:39 PM
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Iamok
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Watching the Hawks last night made it painfully obvious that we also need a legit 1st line winger that can take a game over on his own.

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Old
03-03-2012, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
All assumptions. You know the problem with assumptions right? Instead of expecting Boro to be a solid bottom pairing d-man and Cowen, being a top pairing d-man. You should be projecting based on medium-low expectations.

Just making a bunch of uneducated projections of all your prospects being top six top four players is foolish.
Read my posts again, but this time actually read: "Thinking of the future of the team. Reaching full potential doesn't work out 100% for every guy, but looking ahead 2-3 years, we potentially have most of the pieces to be a top Stanley Cup contender. So I'm mentioning only our best prospects (F and G) which are there with Florida for the best in the league, and realistic projections for our so-so defense prospects."

And this: "AHEAD in 2-3 years, when Cowen could be a #2, Boro a #5 or 6, etc." Could means maybe he becomes this.

And I called Boro a bottom pairing candidate. Candidate means MAYBE he becomes this.

You also totally missed how I was talking about "ahead 2-3 years" and not the present, in your first post.

I am being conservative, notice I don't have Prince as a scorer.

And given that our prospects are ranked with Florida at the top of the league, and guys like Silfverberg and Zibanejad are projected by scouts as top 6 forwards, Lehner looks great and is highly regarded, I don't think projecting these guys as top 6 forwards is crazy, and I don't think projecting Cowen as a possible #2 is crazy either, as he looks good as a rookie, and is highly regarded and projected by scouts as a #2 or #3.


Yet, you call me uneducated and foolish.

Sorry to own you so badly here, pal, but it was warranted.

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Old
03-03-2012, 08:02 PM
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TSA0402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlick View Post
Thinking of the future of the team. Reaching full potential doesn't work out 100% for every guy, but looking ahead 2-3 years, we potentially have most of the pieces to be a top Stanley Cup contender. So I'm mentioning only our best prospects (F and G) which are there with Florida for the best in the league, and realistic projections for our so-so defense prospects.

Goaltending:
Lehner and Bishop

Top 2 offensive centres:
1. Spezza 2. Turris

Scoring Wingers:
Michalek, Silfverberg, Stone

Zibanejad:
Zibanejad

Good grinders / checkers:
Smith, Foligno, Neil, Greening, Noesen, Prince

Top 2 D
1. Karlsson 2. Cowen

Bottom pairing D
Lots of candidates: Gilroy, Claesson, Borowiecki, Wiercioch


So that leaves a glaring hole: #3 and 4 d-men.

Possible ways to remedy this:
---2012 1st round pick.
---Trade Anderson for someone in 2012 offseason or at 2013 deadline.
---Trade Gonchar at next year's deadline, get a rising prospect that pans out, like Zhitnik for Coburn a few years ago (lucky).
---Get lucky with 1 of the bottom pairing guys: IMO Claesson is most likely.
---Sign a free agent.


Discuss...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlick View Post
Read my posts again, but this time actually read: "Thinking of the future of the team. Reaching full potential doesn't work out 100% for every guy, but looking ahead 2-3 years, we potentially have most of the pieces to be a top Stanley Cup contender. So I'm mentioning only our best prospects (F and G) which are there with Florida for the best in the league, and realistic projections for our so-so defense prospects."

And this: "AHEAD in 2-3 years, when Cowen could be a #2, Boro a #5 or 6, etc." Could means maybe he becomes this.

And I called Boro a bottom pairing candidate. Candidate means MAYBE he becomes this.

You also totally missed how I was talking about "ahead 2-3 years" and not the present, in your first post.

I am being conservative, notice I don't have Prince as a scorer.

And given that our prospects are ranked with Florida at the top of the league, and guys like Silfverberg and Zibanejad are projected by scouts as top 6 forwards, Lehner looks great and is highly regarded, I don't think projecting these guys as top 6 forwards is crazy, and I don't think projecting Cowen as a possible #2 is crazy either, as he looks good as a rookie, and is highly regarded and projected by scouts as a #2 or #3.


Yet, you call me uneducated and foolish.

Sorry to own you so badly here, pal, but it was warranted.

Goaltending : We have one proven NHL goaltender. Bishop as of this point is AHL goalie, Lehner has alot of upside but alot of issues to go with that. Sound familiar?

Craig Anderson is fairly young, and still the only NHL goalie we have.

Defense: Karlsson is pretty close to a #1 d-man, Cowen sucks right now, I suggest you look up the word conservative clearly you don't comprehend the right way. #2? LOL. He is playing closer to a #5. Boro is not an NHL player, yet. To assume he is, will only make you look like an ass at the end.

#3-4 d-men : All over the free agent market. Best solution when you trade two of your best top 4 possibilities.

Center: Spezza is Spezza, Turris right now is a 40 point center. I'm glad we are shored up down the middle. Again, you and your brilliant "conservative" theories.

Wings : Michalek has injury history and could go down anytime. Stone could very well bust and is no sure thing, lots of players have good seasons in CHL but don't do very well in NHL in comparison. Silfverberg should do decent, however different ice surface, different game. How did Rundblad do again?


You sound like the same kind of person who had Rundblad pencilled into the top 4 last year, without taking into consideration common sense. A smart GM takes the proactive approach and doesn't assume Cowen will be a #2, but provides the proper insulation for top notch ELC players.


Last edited by SixthSens: 03-03-2012 at 08:21 PM. Reason: calm down
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Old
03-03-2012, 08:23 PM
  #15
Tuna99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
All assumptions. You know the problem with assumptions right? Instead of expecting Boro to be a solid bottom pairing d-man and Cowen, being a top pairing d-man. You should be projecting based on medium-low expectations.

Just making a bunch of uneducated projections of all your prospects being top six top four players is foolish.
Okay, based on your logic, every single player under the age of 18 will be a bottom pairing Dman, a bottom 9 forward or a backup goalie - You got that Taylor Hall, Jeff Skinner and Jonathan Toewes - you are all overachieving bottom 9 NHL forwards who are just playing well. ReCheck the scouting reports, everybody that said you guys were sure fire NHL scorers were plain old based on 'assumption.'

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Old
03-04-2012, 04:36 PM
  #16
aragorn
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Biggest Needs:

Top 6 forward - Murray could try & sign a top 6 forward this summer through UFA or trade. If not, then Hoffman, Silfverberg & Zibanejad will be given every opportunity to be that top 6 forward(s) that the Sens need. There is also the possibility of trading for one before next yr's trade deadline.

Top 4 defenceman - IMO Murray will go after a top 4 defenceman at this yr's summer free agent market. If not, then Boroweicki & Wiercioch will be given every opportunity to be on the roster next season. There is also the possibilty of trading for one before next yr's trade deadline or re-signing Kuba for a yr or two.

I also think that Murray & company will be very busy trying to sign NCAA free agents this yr at the end of their NCAA season. I think he will be busy to make deals at this yr's draft & finally he should be busy this summer to sign the best young UFA players available. Failing to get what he wants, I expect Murray to be busy next season trying to trade for any peice he feels the Sens still need on their roster.

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Old
03-04-2012, 06:19 PM
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I like how Zibanejad has his own category.

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