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How good is Crosby?

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Old
11-12-2003, 06:02 AM
  #1
HabLover
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How good is Crosby?

The kid now has 50 pts in 24 games in the Q and the next closest guy has 37 pts. I mean it's basically Crosby and then everyone else! He still leads in goals, assists and points and what else is remarkeable is, only 4 of his 21 goals have come on the PP. To add to that he also has the 2nd best shooting percentage in the entire league! It will be interesting to see how he plays in the exhibition games against the Russians?

I can tell you right now I never expected Crosby to be doing what he is doing right now in the Q against veteran junior players 2, 3 and some 4 years older than him!

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11-12-2003, 07:10 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabLover
The kid now has 50 pts in 24 games in the Q and the next closest guy has 37 pts. I mean it's basically Crosby and then everyone else! He still leads in goals, assists and points and what else is remarkeable is, only 4 of his 21 goals have come on the PP. To add to that he also has the 2nd best shooting percentage in the entire league! It will be interesting to see how he plays in the exhibition games against the Russians?

I can tell you right now I never expected Crosby to be doing what he is doing right now in the Q against veteran junior players 2, 3 and some 4 years older than him!

He's SOOOOOO fast he takes a shot from the point and has to duck out of the way of it when he's breaking to the net for the rebound!

Honestly though, I saw him play with Shattucks, he was very good but I've got to admit i'm a little surpised by how well he's doing right now. Cant wait until he plays in the NHL though

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Old
11-12-2003, 07:23 AM
  #3
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He's as good as Daigle was in 1992.

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11-12-2003, 08:06 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
He's as good as Daigle was in 1992.
Which, of course, means nothing

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11-12-2003, 08:16 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
He's as good as Daigle was in 1992.
daigle was more talented but he killed himself...

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11-12-2003, 08:45 AM
  #6
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The Daigle thing is absolutly stupid. Daigle was really stupid. He's still stupid and has no heart. Crosby has a way better shot, is a way better playmaker and has better hands. Oh and Crosby also plays well defensively too.

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11-12-2003, 09:22 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Crosby isn't that strong defensivly, I seen him play and he tends to focus alot more on the opposing teams side of the ice then his own. He will do the regular things a forward will do but by all means he is no John Madden or Mike Modano.
I am not saying that he is John Madden but I do think he should be credit with a little better defensive play than normal. I seen him a few times this year and he would come back and play good defense, he was blocking shots and tying up sticks, would go in and get the puck out of his zone. I think his defensive play is a little above average.

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11-12-2003, 09:24 AM
  #8
ChemiseBleuHonnete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosefan
I think his defensive play is a little above average.
Yes, for the qjmhl... But for a 16 years old player, it's damn good.

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11-12-2003, 09:28 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by ax˛+bx+c
Yes, for the qjmhl... But for a 16 years old player, it's damn good.
He would be above average defensivly in the OHL or WHL too.

Go look at the GF's and GA's of all 3 leagues. All are in the same area.

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11-12-2003, 09:46 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Then how did Daigle get all those points in his rookie season, by being stupid? Daigle had way better offensive skills but had no physical game nor did he ever try. If Daigle gave 100 percent in the Q he would own every record possible.
Way better offensive skills? Sorry but i have some doubt about your knowledge on these players. Obviously you didnt see any of them really often. Daigle game's always relied on his deceptive speed. He never had incredibly soft hand and his shot is nothing like crosby's shot. I would go as far to say that Daigle was inferior in most area: shooting, playmaking, vision, defensive play, intengibles and so on.

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11-12-2003, 10:20 AM
  #11
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Is Ovechkin a better prospect that Kovalchuk was?
Is Crosby being more hyped than Spezza?

It always feels like the "new" prospect is a better prospect than the old one. To say that Crosby is better than Daigle was is a little rediculous. Daigle was touted as the Next Lemieux - I don't know if anyone is comparing Crosby to Lemiuex just yet. Crosby is undoubtedly a phenomenal talent - but I personally would rather wait and see. I remember not too long ago that Patty O'Sullivan was an extremely highly touted prospect. There are way too many ups and downs in a prospect's life - so just wait until his draft year at least before comparing him to other top prospects.

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11-12-2003, 10:24 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Is Ovechkin a better prospect that Kovalchuk was?
Is Crosby being more hyped than Spezza?

It always feels like the "new" prospect is a better prospect than the old one. To say that Crosby is better than Daigle was is a little rediculous. Daigle was touted as the Next Lemieux - I don't know if anyone is comparing Crosby to Lemiuex just yet. Crosby is undoubtedly a phenomenal talent - but I personally would rather wait and see. I remember not too long ago that Patty O'Sullivan was an extremely highly touted prospect. There are way too many ups and downs in a prospect's life - so just wait until his draft year at least before comparing him to other top prospects.
He us compare to the great one...

But his style in the qmjhl is pretty similar to Peter Forsberg,,,

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Old
11-12-2003, 10:34 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax˛+bx+c
Yes, for the qjmhl... But for a 16 years old player, it's damn good.
actually in the Canada Winter Games Crosby was one of the best two way forward there while leading the tourny in points. I remember he blocked a shot by Wes O'Neill at the point by sliding in front of it, got up and tied up Evan McGraths stick in front of the net preventing him from getting an easy tap in goal. On another play he took Ryan Garlock off the puck, Mitch Manue picked it up and shot the puck Sidney slid infront of that shot and and blocked it. He was playing this way the entire tourny and still now.

Why eveyone has a bad opinon about the QMJHL's defensive play now blows my mind, all people show with comments like this is cave man day thinking now, it is old. The QMJHL now has some of the best up and comming d-men in North America in J-P Paquet, Joey Ryan, Andrew Andricopoules, Luc Bourdon, Mathieu Carle all of whome have a good chance at going 1st round in their draft years, and good ones now with Martin Vagner, Tim Ramholt, Bruno Gervais, Richard Stehlik, and this years guys Jurj Liska who looks like a top 3 rounder, and Michel Sersen who could go in the 1st round in this years draft. The d-men in the Q are much bigger and more defensive now, it use to be a free for all but now they play trap and physical defense.

So maybe you should update you hockey knowledge there in seems to be outdated.

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11-12-2003, 09:33 PM
  #14
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[QUOTE=moosefan]actually in the Canada Winter Games Crosby was one of the best two way forward there while leading the tourny in points.

Sorry - I have to respond when we move past hype and into crap. I was there. Crosby had a great CWG logging huge amounts of ice - and the way he survived the ice time was by staying on the offensive side of centre ice 90% of the time. He also paced himself well - limiting his carrying time with the puck and positioning himself as the "back door" shooter on every PP - which gave him many of his goals. Defensive play was definitely NOT part of his game - nor was it expected on a team that struggled just to keep up.

This kid is fantastic - mature beyond his years, playing beyond expectations, scoring more than anyone really expected. One of his gifts has been to play the role he is called upon by a succession of coaches - and his clutch play is outstanding. But "two way"?? Let's limit the hype to what is true. There are - as anyone would expect - also aspects of his game that he needs to work on, defensive play being one. I would not hold that against him - especially at 16 - but creating myths that take him into hockey god status is going too far.

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Old
11-13-2003, 06:01 AM
  #15
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[QUOTE=gb701]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosefan
actually in the Canada Winter Games Crosby was one of the best two way forward there while leading the tourny in points.

Sorry - I have to respond when we move past hype and into crap. I was there. Crosby had a great CWG logging huge amounts of ice - and the way he survived the ice time was by staying on the offensive side of centre ice 90% of the time. He also paced himself well - limiting his carrying time with the puck and positioning himself as the "back door" shooter on every PP - which gave him many of his goals. Defensive play was definitely NOT part of his game - nor was it expected on a team that struggled just to keep up.
IMO maybe you should watch a bity closer, as for me being crap I went to every Nova Scotia game and when they played Ontario in Bathurst Sidney was all over both ends of the ice...same as in the Manitoba game in Campelton. I you were there, maybe you should have watched his defensive play a bit better as me and the other two writers with me were surprised over his two way game as in Dartmouth AAA when he followed him for almost everygame he was just an offensive force.

You make a statement in every Crosby posts kind of diminishing his talent by a bit. If you really seen him play at the Canada Winter Games in a recent post you said the gap between him and Brule isn't that large, well if you were at the Canada Winter Games you would have seen how large a gap that was with their talents. Brule is great but Crosby took a nothing team to its best finish ever. Crosby BTW in the Canada Games was the guy bringing the puck up the ice everytime and making the plays happen himself, he wouldn't just go back boor, if you were there then you would have seen him goal that he scored on Ontario when he picked the puck up through a crowed about 2 feet from the goalie and picked top corener, or the goal with 1 second left that he scored from half way out with a slap shot to send the Manitoba game in to overtime where on a two on two play Crosby sent a nice pass over to his winger from the side to win the game only seconds in.

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Old
11-13-2003, 06:36 AM
  #16
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A monkey can see Daigle has great skills. He's one of the most talented players in the league right now so Sidney should be happy with those Daigle comparisons as a 16 year old, it's another thing if you're talking about them NHL career wise.

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Old
11-13-2003, 11:29 AM
  #17
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Crosby

Nice article on Crosby in the November 10, 2003 Sports Illustrated.

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Old
11-13-2003, 01:00 PM
  #18
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What does it matter if he can play 'defense' if the puck is always on his stick when he's on the ice? Nobody else is gonna score because he gets the puck and only he has a chance to score, not the oppenents, so basically he is always on 'offense' and that itself is a defense.

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Old
11-13-2003, 01:12 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
What does it matter if he can play 'defense' if the puck is always on his stick when he's on the ice? Nobody else is gonna score because he gets the puck and only he has a chance to score, not the oppenents, so basically he is always on 'offense' and that itself is a defense.
I agree with you but I think the point mossefan and others are trying to make is that not only does he do that but he back checks too.

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Old
11-13-2003, 09:27 PM
  #20
gb701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosefan
You make a statement in every Crosby posts kind of diminishing his talent by a bit.
I make a comment in my posts acknowledging that the kid is great but warning that I think you and others are hyping beyond the reality of the play. The kid's play speaks for itself - his accomplishments no longer need the hype - and I happen to agree with you that in what he is doing this season, he has silenced everyone who said that we had to wait until he played in a "real" league to see how good he is. I agree with you that he is "that" good.

But IMHO he is not perfect in every aspect of his game - nor should he be expected to be. At the CWG you like to post about, defence was not part of his game against Manitoba (huge icetime - out all the time - only real offensive threat for his team, but pacing himself through the whole game or he would have died) or Ontario (a factor on the PP but not dominant outside of that), and it certainly wasn't against Alberta where he got so frustrated he spent most of the last 10 minutes of the 3rd period in the penalty box. This is not "diminishing his talent by a bit", it is an observation from someone who has watched the kid play quite a lot over the years, although I don't get to see him much anymore. I have yet to say anything to diminish anything about Crosby - it is going to be a pleasure to see him grow and excel in the NHL. It is just trying to keep the discussion by others about him in a bit of perspective.

Final comment - I know you disagree, but again IMHO the gap between him and Brule was never that wide and while you are watching Crosby down east, Brule is proving himself out west. Another name that gets lost, and in fact the best 16 year old in the game between NS and Alberta, is Bertram - but here the gap probably has widened somewhat. That is, again, NOT claiming these guys are as good as Sydney - just that I think you overstate how much better he is.

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Old
11-14-2003, 07:11 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gb701
But IMHO he is not perfect in every aspect of his game - nor should he be expected to be. At the CWG you like to post about, defence was not part of his game against Manitoba (huge icetime - out all the time - only real offensive threat for his team, but pacing himself through the whole game or he would have died) or Ontario (a factor on the PP but not dominant outside of that), and it certainly wasn't against Alberta where he got so frustrated he spent most of the last 10 minutes of the 3rd period in the penalty box. This is not "diminishing his talent by a bit", it is an observation from someone who has watched the kid play quite a lot over the years, although I don't get to see him much anymore. I have yet to say anything to diminish anything about Crosby - it is going to be a pleasure to see him grow and excel in the NHL. It is just trying to keep the discussion by others about him in a bit of perspective.

Final comment - I know you disagree, but again IMHO the gap between him and Brule was never that wide and while you are watching Crosby down east, Brule is proving himself out west. Another name that gets lost, and in fact the best 16 year old in the game between NS and Alberta, is Bertram - but here the gap probably has widened somewhat. That is, again, NOT claiming these guys are as good as Sydney - just that I think you overstate how much better he is.
I do agree Crosby was getting frustrated and taking alot of penalties in the Manitoba game, but he was playing defense, and the point I was making was that he is a two way threat on the ice not just an offensive dynamo. I guess we have a difference of opinion on Brule and Crosby, I I think Brule is a step down from Crosby in overall talent, especially seeing both play and being able to compare both of them IMO Crosby is a far better player than Brule, now I don't want to down play Brule as he is a potential superstar in the making but time will tell in this.

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Old
11-14-2003, 07:41 AM
  #22
Capt Tuttle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosefan
Why eveyone has a bad opinon about the QMJHL's defensive play now blows my mind, all people show with comments like this is cave man day thinking now, it is old. The QMJHL now has some of the best up and comming d-men in North America in J-P Paquet, Joey Ryan, Andrew Andricopoules, Luc Bourdon, Mathieu Carle all of whome have a good chance at going 1st round in their draft years, and good ones now with Martin Vagner, Tim Ramholt, Bruno Gervais, Richard Stehlik, and this years guys Jurj Liska who looks like a top 3 rounder, and Michel Sersen who could go in the 1st round in this years draft. The d-men in the Q are much bigger and more defensive now, it use to be a free for all but now they play trap and physical defense.

So maybe you should update you hockey knowledge there in seems to be outdated.
I go to both Ottawa 67 and "Hull" games. The Q is definitely less defense oriented. They don't play the body as much as the O, which is why I prefer the Q. It is more wide open, more action and less clutching/grabbing. All 3 major junior leagues have always produced good players regardless of their position.

As far as Crosby's records "being tainted" because he plays in the Q, that's a pile of *****. I get a kick out of the "experts" telling us he's not gonna be that good, or he can't play defense like Madden (???). The kid is obviously awesome! What other player has led a Major Junior league in scoring at age 16? So Daigle didn't pan out. Does that ensure that Crosby won't either? Don't throw names like O'Sullivan or Cleary at me because as highly touted as they were, they did not accomplish what Crosby has at this age. Like I've said before, as a young teenager, Crosby reminds me more of Gretzky than any other player I can remember. I hope he keeps it going because I love watching a great talent.

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