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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 4.0

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Old
03-04-2012, 04:52 PM
  #101
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Patofqc - Does not mean anything. Seguin and Duchene were not invited to the world juniors and they are great young players. - ignore friendly italics added,lol.

It means something, whether you think so or not.

I just happen to value the opinion of the Team Canada coaching staff over yours, fwiw.
This is a DRAFt, teams darft the player who will be better in 3-4-5 years, not necessarily the one that is better NOW. I'm sure somebody can compile a LONG list of WJHC snubs that had great careers and a long list of guys that made Team Canada but never really cracked the NHL full time.

One of the big reasons Murray was there was his polished game plus he is a late birthday so he is nearly a year older than some of the other 2012 eligibles. I think Murray will be a good NHL d-man but I see others that may pass him in a few years, but he will crack an NHL lineup next year.

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Old
03-04-2012, 04:56 PM
  #102
Erik Estrada
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I keep hearing Grigorenko's first and foremost a great passer. But his assist numbers are not exceptional.

On the other hand, his goal numbers are outstanding for the Q compared to other draft year players. Am I missing something?

Grigorenko: 0,72 GPG
Huberdeau: 0,64 GPG
Couturier: 0,62 GPG
Perron: 0,55 GPG
Voracek: 0,38 GPG

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Old
03-04-2012, 04:57 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi Nc E x13x View Post
Will grigorenko be eligible for it this year as he is still 17?
He would be, but he almost definitely won't be there, as the Remparts look like they should go deep into the playoffs.

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Old
03-04-2012, 04:57 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How do you know Roy isn't concerned about Grigorenko adapting to the NHL? Even if he thought he has 50% chance of being a bust, he would be an idiot to say it out loud before the draft.

There are a lot of people on here who do a lot of typing but not much thinking. Roy has 5 great reasons to only say good stuff about Grigorenko before the draft. Not only is he the coach and wants a happy player, but he is GM and wants more high end Russians to come, he is also the owner so he wants butts in the seats with those current and future high end players.
lol. If I agree with you, I have a well thought out position and if you dont like what I say my thinking is clearly absent.


Last edited by Frozenice: 03-04-2012 at 05:08 PM.
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Old
03-04-2012, 04:58 PM
  #105
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At the end of the day, the GM makes the final decision and I doubt we'll ever pass on Grigorenko.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:01 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
He would be, but he almost definitely won't be there, as the Remparts look like they should go deep into the playoffs.
I just remember last year when he had 18pts in 7gp .. I would love to see what he could do this year but if they do make a deep run I would be more interested to see what he does under pressure.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:02 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Beckham View Post
At the end of the day, the GM makes the final decision and I doubt we'll ever pass on Grigorenko.
Well, that's true in that the GM hires/fires the head of amateur scouting, but I hope it doesn't extend beyond that. I like to think Timmins is in charge of the final list. I wouldn't trust that Gauthier/Brisebois/Mackassey/Bergevin/whoever has been following this draft crop (including Grigorenko) as closely as Timmins and his scouts.

I know we all made fun of Bobby Clarke for forgetting Claude Giroux's name on the podium... but in a way, aside from the rudeness of it, it's a good sign of a GM willing to completely hand over the draft to his expert in that field. As long as your head of scouting gets results, why get in his way? It worked out pretty well for the Flyers, as it has in most of their drafts since 2001.


Last edited by Roulin: 03-04-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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Old
03-04-2012, 05:12 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
This is a DRAFt, teams darft the player who will be better in 3-4-5 years, not necessarily the one that is better NOW. I'm sure somebody can compile a LONG list of WJHC snubs that had great careers and a long list of guys that made Team Canada but never really cracked the NHL full time.

One of the big reasons Murray was there was his polished game plus he is a late birthday so he is nearly a year older than some of the other 2012 eligibles. I think Murray will be a good NHL d-man but I see others that may pass him in a few years, but he will crack an NHL lineup next year.
You could make the same points about Grigorenko making Team Russia.

If I was projecting 5 years out, my guess is Grigorenko would be not playing with the Habs if we drafted him.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:14 PM
  #109
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Yakupov compared to other recent big OHL names' draft year:

Points per game
Kane: 2.44
Tavares: 1.85
Hall: 1.85
Stamkos: 1.72
Yakupov: 1.69
Seguin: 1.68
Landeskog; 1.24

Goals per game
Kane: 1.06
Tavares: 1.03
Stamkov: 0.95
Yakupov: 0.77
Seguin: 0.76
Hall: 0.70
Landeskog; 0.67

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:15 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
You could make the same points about Grigorenko making Team Russia.

If I was projecting 5 years out, my guess is Grigorenko would be not playing with the Habs if we drafted him.
Russia doesn't have the depth of talent Canada has.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I keep hearing Grigorenko's first and foremost a great passer. But his assist numbers are not exceptional.

On the other hand, his goal numbers are outstanding for the Q compared to other draft year players. Am I missing something?

Grigorenko: 0,72 GPG
Huberdeau: 0,64 GPG
Couturier: 0,62 GPG
Perron: 0,55 GPG
Voracek: 0,38 GPG
I think the only mitigating factor is quality of teammates. But on the other hand, I like the large portion of Grigorenko's goals scored at even strength.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:26 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How do you know Roy isn't concerned about Grigorenko adapting to the NHL? Even if he thought he has 50% chance of being a bust, he would be an idiot to say it out loud before the draft.

There are a lot of people on here who do a lot of typing but not much thinking. Roy has 5 great reasons to only say good stuff about Grigorenko before the draft. Not only is he the coach and wants a happy player, but he is GM and wants more high end Russians to come, he is also the owner so he wants butts in the seats with those current and future high end players.
Roy could have one great reason to expect Grigorenko falling in the draft... if he falls, there's a higher chance of him coming back in Quebec next season. If Grigs goes back in the Q, Quebec will dominate the league.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:34 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Roy could have one great reason to expect Grigorenko falling in the draft... if he falls, there's a higher chance of him coming back in Quebec next season. If Grigs goes back in the Q, Quebec will dominate the league.
Not saying Grigs will start in the NHL, not at all. But I think your point is moot, falling didn't stop Cam Fowler from playing straight in the NHL.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:44 PM
  #114
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For all we know, Forsberg could have been just as dominant as Yakupov and Grigo if he played in the CHL. Landeskog's value rose a lot because he played in Kitchener. Forsberg has shown he has great vision, speed, physicality, passing and a very quick release. Only thing I observed SO FAR is that his accuracy isnt as good as the other 3 forwards. Christer Rockstrom may have a lot of sway when it comes to the draft, particularly if Timmins agrees with him.

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:57 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
For all we know, Forsberg could have been just as dominant as Yakupov and Grigo if he played in the CHL. Landeskog's value rose a lot because he played in Kitchener. Forsberg has shown he has great vision, speed, physicality, passing and a very quick release. Only thing I observed SO FAR is that his accuracy isnt as good as the other 3 forwards. Christer Rockstrom may have a lot of sway when it comes to the draft, particularly if Timmins agrees with him.
I have no problem with drafting Forsberg. What's even better is the fact he's European, we can sign him and put him in the AHL if he's not NHL ready.

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Old
03-04-2012, 06:15 PM
  #116
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The past 5 or 6 drafts, there has been at least one elite Swede to come out of the 1st round.
2011- Landeskog/Larsson,
2009- Hedman/Ekman-Larsson,
2008- Karlsson
2007- Backlund
2006- Backstrom
etc.

It never seems like there is an abundance of swedes in any draft, or some generational talent, but it always seems like some really REALLY great swede(s) come out of the first round every year. There success rate seems really high and It seems to me that they have one hell of a hockey program there.

Like I said, there always seems to be a great swede in the first round yearly, and this year I think it's going to be Forsberg. While everyone has question marks with Grigo and Galchenyuk, nobody seems to have anything bad to say about Forsberg and he remains in the discussion as a top 5 forward in the draft. Sure his stats aren't amazing, but he's the youngest player in a very competitive league (i think his team is in first too). Also, it seems like he has dominated every other level he has played at.

Anyways, I'm no scout and I haven't seen him play beyond the WJC, but he just seems like the smartest pick for a forward after Yakupov. Hope the Habs get him.


Last edited by Picaroon: 03-04-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Old
03-04-2012, 06:19 PM
  #117
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Noticed on the Kitchener ranger's there is Max Iafrate is he the son of Al? Also this year is his draft year his stats arent great in junior what do you think of him?

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03-04-2012, 06:41 PM
  #118
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I have no problem with drafting Forsberg. What's even better is the fact he's European, we can sign him and put him in the AHL if he's not NHL ready.
The thing is... Is there any way to get info or video on Forsberg? I can't find much.

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Old
03-04-2012, 06:44 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Vi Nc E x13x View Post
Noticed on the Kitchener ranger's there is Max Iafrate is he the son of Al? Also this year is his draft year his stats arent great in junior what do you think of him?
Yes it is Al's son.

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Old
03-04-2012, 06:44 PM
  #120
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The thing is... Is there any way to get info or video on Forsberg? I can't find much.
I posted a video somewhere in here of forsberg Ill try and find it again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hGI0...layer_embedded

someone made this of him u need link to view it


Last edited by Vi Nc E x13x: 03-04-2012 at 06:46 PM. Reason: add link
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Old
03-04-2012, 06:59 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Vi Nc E x13x View Post
I posted a video somewhere in here of forsberg Ill try and find it again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hGI0...layer_embedded

someone made this of him u need link to view it
Awesome video. Thank you.

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03-04-2012, 07:00 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi Nc E x13x View Post
I posted a video somewhere in here of forsberg Ill try and find it again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hGI0...layer_embedded

someone made this of him u need link to view it
Wow he's just buzzing in those videos, always in the play in the offensive zone, i like what i see!

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Old
03-04-2012, 07:10 PM
  #123
Erik Estrada
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Grigorenko vs Yakupov
10-11: U18 Gr: (7-4-14-18) - Ya: (7-6-7-13)
11-12: U20 Gr: (6-2-3-5) - Ya: (7-0-0-9)

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Old
03-04-2012, 07:25 PM
  #124
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The thing we have to remember about Forsberg is that he's almost one year younger than Yakupov. 1 year of development at this age is huge. So, born 1 month later and he's 2013 available.

I know we need a big center since a long time ago but the most I read about Forsberg and the most I like him. Obviously, the top 4 forwards is pretty strong and none of them will make me sad

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Old
03-04-2012, 07:25 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
Thing is that it is very difficult to change a persons character. Grigorenko has been motivated this year by Roy to "catch" Yakupov in the race for #1 overall. We dont know his character at all and the fact that he has worked very hard to learn english is a good sign. Timmins usually likes hard workers, with the exception of David Fischer.


He mad.

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