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Marcel Dionne says "Kopitar needs to make a decision"

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03-03-2012, 08:49 PM
  #76
Mr Irreverent
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
Unless you watch every single Flyers game, it's a good bet that I watch at least as many of them as you do.


Being a go to guy does not automatically make you elite. And yes, he is their go to guy and his offensive play is great. He is an enjoyable player to watch. Apart from some silly things he likes to do in defense. How often he does that? More often than Kopitar, I would say. But that is only my opinion. When Kopitar misses an assignment I register that automatically and even replay it couple of times to see what happened. When Giroux misses a defensive assignment I don't find it particularly strange. I am not saying he is terrible in defense - before someone puts those words in my mouth.


Oh, so judging elite players by points is ok, as long as it's playoffs? Good to know, thanks. Ok, let's try...

Kopitar 6GP, 2 goals, 3 assists. Yeah, that is much worse scoring pace. Giroux's career playoff pace is 0.325 goals per game, Kopitar coul barely keep 0.33 goals. Do I hear sampling size problem from somewhere? Well, it wasn't me who came up with this in first place.


By "respective position" do you mean "center" or "forward"? If it's center, then you are saying that there are 50 elite players in NHL? That is... a lot. We have completely different standards. I am thinking more like 5 elite NHL players, maybe 10. And no, Giroux is not among them. If it's 50, then both Giroux and Kopitar are there.


Kopitar this season? Check. Kopitar last season? Check. Kopitar 2009/10? Check. Kopitar 2008/09? Check. Kopitar 2007/08? Check. Kopitar 2006/07? Booooo. 61 points in 72 games.

Giroux this season? Check. Giroux last season? Check. Giroux 2009/10? 47 points in 82 games just wasn't enough for top 3. Giroux 2008/09? Nah.


I say Kopitar makes players around him better IF you say that Giroux makes players around him better. I would say that there are 150+ such players in NHL. But I must say that I don't believe in this expression. It's too subjective to decide when someone makes players around him better. I guess it could make an interesting discussion:
- how many of such players are in NHL?
- are there also players who make their team mates worse?
But it's almost off topic...
I feel like this is an after school special where at the end of the 2 hours we decide that being an elite NHL player is a matter of personal opinion.

I do honestly regret bringing up playoff stats, so I'll concede there. Although Kopitar has yet to win a playoff series.

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03-03-2012, 09:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
I feel like this is an after school special where at the end of the 2 hours we decide that being an elite NHL player is a matter of personal opinion.
Well, it's just a word, so you are right that there is no right or wrong. If you said "Giroux and Kopitar are elite/not elite" you wouldn't hear anything from me, because it just isn't that important to me.

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I do honestly regret bringing up playoff stats, so I'll concede there. Although Kopitar has yet to win a playoff series.
Kopitar has a lot to prove, that's for sure. If he ends his career right now, his "Achievements" column would be empty. He hasn't done anything, regardless that NHL marketing would probably be able to make a full hour show about him. Hell, they managed to talk 30 minutes about Gagner.

Fortunately this is the time when Kings should be getting serious. If nothing happens I am putting most blame on players with highest paychecks.

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03-03-2012, 09:20 PM
  #78
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If Jordan Staal score 30 goals playing mostly third line duties for the majority of the season Kopitar can score 50. The fact that Staal scored 30 is very telling.
It is, Staal has never scored 30 goals in a season or even come close to it since his rookie year (he had 29g that year and since has never scored more than 22). He also has played on a team with two of the greatest centers of his generation and the year that he scored the most goals of his career he was on a Pens team that was loaded with talent.

So he is more comparable of a scorer with other 3rd line centers around the league who plays on a team (until this season) that has had the kind of forwards on it that have bought him all of the space he could have ever wanted.

He isn't chopped liver but he isn't even close to being comparable with Kopitar and his situation doesn't seem to me to support what your saying.

Did I miss something? I might have.

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03-03-2012, 09:25 PM
  #79
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Kopi is a 40-goal scoring-type centerman. He needs to play like one.

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03-03-2012, 09:40 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
It is, Staal has never scored 30 goals in a season or even come close to it since his rookie year (he had 29g that year and since has never scored more than 22). He also has played on a team with two of the greatest centers of his generation and the year that he scored the most goals of his career he was on a Pens team that was loaded with talent.

So he is more comparable of a scorer with other 3rd line centers around the league who plays on a team (until this season) that has had the kind of forwards on it that have bought him all of the space he could have ever wanted.

He isn't chopped liver but he isn't even close to being comparable with Kopitar and his situation doesn't seem to me to support what your saying.

Did I miss something? I might have.
I'm saying what a difference the two systems do to their players points. There are no comparing the two.

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03-04-2012, 01:33 AM
  #81
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I think what's going on right now, is that he's scared and nervous. After seeing Jj get traded, and Carter coming here (who was a franchise player for Philly)...he thinks he's expendable right now. It looks more like a reality for him after the moves the Kings have made. It's all mental.

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03-04-2012, 04:06 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
Kopi in full beast mode:



I'd really, really love to see another one of these before I die.
I miss that Kopitar. I think all he needs to do is realize it's ok to take the puck to their high slot and give it away. He just needs to start making plays happen in the slot.

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03-04-2012, 04:27 AM
  #83
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Is it me or does kopi look smaller/thinner and faster in that video?

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03-04-2012, 04:35 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
I miss that Kopitar. I think all he needs to do is realize it's ok to take the puck to their high slot and give it away. He just needs to start making plays happen in the slot.
You guys are crazy if you think he can do that today. There is no way that opponents forget about him like that. Even if he made it into the offensive zone, he will always get tripped there and Kings will go on powerplay.

Why don't you come with some clip from 15 years ago and we can cry how he never does that again?

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03-04-2012, 04:39 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by rsaturday View Post
Is it me or does kopi look smaller/thinner and faster in that video?
I don't think he's faster or at least it can't be seen from that video. He is fast today if he enters the offensive zone in full speed. You could see that on that Brown's sniper goal after Kopitar's nice pass... 15 games ago maybe?

He is of course thinner. But if he stayed like that, he would have been injured much more often.

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03-04-2012, 11:09 AM
  #86
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I'm saying what a difference the two systems do to their players points. There are no comparing the two.
Sorry, I didn't get that at first but I can see what you were doing now.

I agree completely with you that if Kopitar where to play with just that much more intensity he would or could become a truly special player.

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03-04-2012, 11:33 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
I don't think he's faster or at least it can't be seen from that video. He is fast today if he enters the offensive zone in full speed. You could see that on that Brown's sniper goal after Kopitar's nice pass... 15 games ago maybe?

He is of course thinner. But if he stayed like that, he would have been injured much more often.
It just seems to me that you never see him blow by people like he did against Pronger in that vid, and also the way Carter did in the game last night. I wonder if the extra bulk and the ankle injury has taken away a little of his speed. I'm not trying to say that Kopi is out of shape, or that his size is a bad thing, but I just don't see the same quickness or explosiveness.

However, the biggest issue is that he doesn't take the puck hard to the net like that, which indicates either a lack of desire, or that he is playing hurt.

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03-04-2012, 11:43 AM
  #88
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It just seems to me that you never see him blow by people like he did against Pronger in that vid, and also the way Carter did in the game last night. I wonder if the extra bulk and the ankle injury has taken away a little of his speed. I'm not trying to say that Kopi is out of shape, or that his size is a bad thing, but I just don't see the same quickness or explosiveness.

However, the biggest issue is that he doesn't take the puck hard to the net like that, which indicates either a lack of desire, or that he is playing hurt.
Kopitar was 20 years old there. His body was still maturing.

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03-04-2012, 05:54 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
I miss that Kopitar. I think all he needs to do is realize it's ok to take the puck to their high slot and give it away. He just needs to start making plays happen in the slot.
Holy CRAP! Were's that guy been, Kopi has no easy ride now. Kopi may find himself running the second line here soon if Richards and Carter continue the pace. Who knows, maybe that will open things up for Kopi.

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03-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #90
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Last night they rolled three lines, all three got similar TOI at EV. Whichever line of the top two is scoring will be 1A, the other 1B.

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03-04-2012, 06:17 PM
  #91
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I know we've all let go of riding Brown (for good reason) and have started in on Kopi, but I just can't help but remember the quick clip of him icing his knee/ankle after the game in the Richards NHL36 vid. He had mentioned a while back that he still had swelling problems after the surgery but he hasn't said a word about it recently.

Despite the fact that we want him to be better and whatnot, I think this season has been a big struggle for him partly because of it. Not excusing the slumps that he tends to generally go through, but that was a major surgery.

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03-04-2012, 06:24 PM
  #92
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I think fans care too much about the line number to be honest. I don't care which line is the first, as long as they are winning. I also think that it wasn't Kopitar that was so bad, it's just that Richards-Carter was so good. I watched the replay of the game one more time and Kopitar's line had some pretty good shifts. It was just too easy to forget them quickly, because there were no goals coming from them. In my opinion.

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03-04-2012, 06:30 PM
  #93
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Besides all of it, he is on track for 24g and 42a with 55 points at 65 games you can't really call it a bad season when you consider how truly awful our O game has been this season.

To me he has had a great season all things considered.

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03-04-2012, 06:35 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by outofrange View Post
I know we've all let go of riding Brown (for good reason) and have started in on Kopi, but I just can't help but remember the quick clip of him icing his knee/ankle after the game in the Richards NHL36 vid. He had mentioned a while back that he still had swelling problems after the surgery but he hasn't said a word about it recently.

Despite the fact that we want him to be better and whatnot, I think this season has been a big struggle for him partly because of it. Not excusing the slumps that he tends to generally go through, but that was a major surgery.
Ya know, I havent really thought about this for a while but I think there may be more validity to this than we might know.

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03-04-2012, 06:41 PM
  #95
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To me playoffs will decide. If Kings don't make the playoffs, there are no excuses for Kopitar - the season will be a big failure for him.

Once in the PO I expect him to keep the scoring pace at point per game or a bit below that, considering that it will probably be extremely close and low-scoring.

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03-04-2012, 08:01 PM
  #96
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In case no one noticed, Kopitar and the entire first line got benched for the last six minutes of the second last night. Coddling stars is obviously not Sutter's style.

Quote:
In the final six minutes of that period, the Kings’ first line of Justin Williams, Anze Kopitar and Dustin Brown didn’t have a single shift....“We played the guys that were mentally tough, because they all weren’t. They’re still learning that. There were guys that didn’t play during stretches there, pretty significant players that didn’t get to play much at certain points of the game last night. You try to get a read, as a coach, who is that and who isn’t.’’
http://lakingsinsider.com/2012/03/04...rs-last-night/

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03-04-2012, 08:07 PM
  #97
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This is a major burn
Quote:
Our fourth line has a centerman who has won championships, at this level and at the World Junior level, and he’s probably significantly ahead, in terms of the way he thinks the game and the way he recognizes what’s going on in the game, than some of our players who get significant attention. So it doesn’t really bother me to play him in those situations.’’
Ouch. No more coddling!

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03-04-2012, 08:07 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by outofrange View Post
I know we've all let go of riding Brown (for good reason) and have started in on Kopi, but I just can't help but remember the quick clip of him icing his knee/ankle after the game in the Richards NHL36 vid. He had mentioned a while back that he still had swelling problems after the surgery but he hasn't said a word about it recently.

Despite the fact that we want him to be better and whatnot, I think this season has been a big struggle for him partly because of it. Not excusing the slumps that he tends to generally go through, but that was a major surgery.
Yeah he has been nursing that ankle.


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03-04-2012, 08:47 PM
  #99
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Yeah he has been nursing that ankle.

Yea I noticed that too.

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03-04-2012, 10:39 PM
  #100
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This is a major burn


Ouch. No more coddling!
At some point DL is going to have to stop all of the public bashing. Dionne has gone on record via the Kings website and is in some ways a spokesperson for the Kings. Sutter has made three comments that were disrespectful to Kopitar as well. Make no mistake his comments were blatant disrespect whether it was intended or not. The structure of basically putting Lewis and Kopitar in the same breath was deliberate and well calculated. The mind games stop working after the first time and anything afterwards is simply disrespect.

In reality though Sutter has no room to speak. The Kings are statistically worse under him and they have the same win percentage as before. That means that if anything the players are carrying him. He has failed to bring anything to the table. There are no innovations that he has implimented unless his idea of public humiliation is a tactic.

Why doesn't he ever take any responsibility? Why doesn't he call out his golden boy Drew Doughty who in the last game had everything he touched turn to turd. He is known to have had his players and managers severely dislike him in the past and I'm starting to understand.

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