If he signs both Allen AND Spacek to an extension, that'd tell me that his hockey deal is assuredly on the way for that top 6 forward. There's just no explanation to put that many bodies in front of some Charlotte guys who probably should see some time in Raleigh next year.
Okay, I read through the entire thread and it feels basically that it breaks into two parts:
1. JR stinks because he couldn't get assets for one or both of Allen and Spacek, and
2. Why can't we get Rick Nash for our 2012 1st, McBain, and Jokinen.
The first item has been beaten to death. That horse is dead and there's nothing really to add (or I can't think of anything to add). The second piece of this thread died about 3 pages ago, but is really the more interesting one to me. Quite simply if you want to get a player of Rick Nash's caliber it is going to take:
2012 1st round draft pick
Ryan Murphy
Jussi Jokinen
Jiri Tlusty
See a pattern? To get a player the quality of Rick Nash, you would have to give Columbus something of equal or greater value in return. Keep in mind that Columbus turned down the Rangers offer because they wanted Callahan in lieu of Dubinsky.
So any and all of the "potential" trades that we are suggesting for a top 6 winger are going to have to start with our 2012 1st and another 1st (Murphy, Sutter, etc.). You want Bobby Ryan? Be prepared to give up Brandon Sutter. You want Dustin Brown, be prepared to give up Ryan Murphy. You can hope and over-value our guys, but the reality is any move we make in the off season to get a top 6 guy is going to cost us something painful and have us losing somebody that will set this board on fire with the loss of some fan favorite. Get used to it or be patient hoping and waiting for Zac Dalpe to reach his potential, for Victor Rask to make the jump, or for our 2012 1st round pick to be so good as to garner the Calder again.
I doubt we are going to get Rick Nash, because we don't have anything of quality to give up.
Columbus wants quality and quantity (a decent piece now plus decent pieces later). We can pay through the nose of decent pieces later, but now? The best we can offer is Ruutu or Jokinen.
I doubt we are going to get Rick Nash, because we don't have anything of quality to give up.
Columbus wants quality and quantity (a decent piece now plus decent pieces later). We can pay through the nose of decent pieces later, but now? The best we can offer is Ruutu or Jokinen.
My point is that we have decent pieces now:
McBain
Sutter
Pitkanen
Faulk
We're just not that willing to part with them and at least one of the 4 above would have to be part of any deal for somebody like Nash or even Bobby Ryan. If I was Columbus, I'd start with one of those 4 and go from there.
We're just not that willing to part with them and at least one of the 4 above would have to be part of any deal for somebody like Nash or even Bobby Ryan. If I was Columbus, I'd start with one of those 4 and go from there.
Columbus wanted Ryan Callahan along with several decent prospects and a first round pick.
We have 4-6 players at or above the level of Ryan Callahan. Staal, Skinner, Ward, Sutter, Ruutu and Pitkanen.
The first 3 are untouchables, Sutter is not going to have enough value to Columbus to make it worth to trade him, and Ruutu and Pitkanen are a slight step below Callahan.
I would do Ruutu/Pitkanen, McBain, Rask and a 1st for Nash. But I don't think Columbus would.
This is, of course, assuming that our 1st is a Lotto pick.
The alternative to making a fair deal is to wait patiently for a team to get itself in trouble, and kick them while they're down.
Atlanta took advantage of the Hawks to get Buff and Ladd. A few years ago, Anaheim took advantage of Edmonton and Jersey to get Pronger and Niedermayer. Pittsburgh took advantage of Atlanta to get Hossa. Those are the kind of trades we should be looking for.
If the Nash situation sours and a new GM is brought in with a mandate to build around a new core, that might be a window of opportunity. But not this summer, with Howson still holding the best card in the deck.
My takeaway from the Nash sweepstakes is that Columbus wanted franchises to mortgage large chunks of their futures for him. There was no "fair deal" to be had for anyone. All deals proposed back to bidders were so unsavory that Rick Nash is still skating in a CBJ sweater. For the Canes to get an entry in the sweepstakes, we would have basically had to promise Columbus that we would be happy to take over and become the next Columbus, and the waiting lines for our favorite meth dealers would have become super long.
We would have skated Staal, Nash, and a bunch of guys all the way to a guaranteed last place finish for the next couple of years.
In short I'm not at all surprised that Carolina wasn't in the running. If we were, I would have laid all jokes and wasted time making less than clever memes aside and *really* started hating Jim Rutherford.
The only reason Nash was brought up was because JR mentioned a top-flight winger. Now, obviously, it depends on what he means by a top-flight winger.
If we're talking top-flight winger, league-wide, then the names like Nash, Parise, and Ryan become available. Of course, there's less than a 1% chance that he meant "league-wide", but *Insert Dumb and Dumber video here* The more likely options, as already mentioned, are "top-flight winger...that we can afford" or "Winger that we're going to try and pass off as top-flight".
Going off that, I'd say it's 75% chance of Whitney, 24% chance of Penner, 1% chance of actual top-flight winger.
And this is ignoring the whole "If one's available" clause that he not-so-subtly added.
Why are we even talking about Nash? He is not waitivng his NMC to come here.
Was the full list of teams that Nash was willing to go to ever released. From what I gathered it was the Kings, Sharks, Rangers, Blackhawks, Flyers? Any other teams?
Was the full list of teams that Nash was willing to go to ever released. From what I gathered it was the Kings, Sharks, Rangers, Blackhawks, Flyers? Any other teams?
Haven't seen the list, but using common sense, he wouldn't he waive to come here. This team hasn't made the playoffs in what 4 years. He's not going to leave a team who doesn't make the playoffs for another team who consistently misses the playoffs. If he moves its to go to a team that gives him the chance to be in the playoffs year after year. Like the teams you mentioned.
Was the full list of teams that Nash was willing to go to ever released. From what I gathered it was the Kings, Sharks, Rangers, Blackhawks, Flyers? Any other teams?
Those teams plus the Bruins, Leafs, Canucks and Wings, IIRC. It was pretty much all large market teams that aren't crappy teams.
The Bruins ended up with a solid player in acquiring shot-blocking blue liner Greg Zanon from the Wild, but they also made a solid play for 38-year-old Czech defenseman Jaro Spacek. Word is, the Hurricanes’ asking price was too high, possibly a second-round pick that the Bruins wouldn’t be able to deliver until the 2013 draft. Just think: Had the Bruins written the same outrageous deal for Tomas Kaberle that the Hurricanes handed him in July, then maybe Boston, and not Carolina, could have pawned him on Montreal to bring in Spacek during the season. Either way, a close pal of Spacek’s says that he would have loved the opportunity here in the Hub of Hockey. On target to be an unrestricted free agent July 1, perhaps he will get his chance.
Luckily, there a still a bunch of games left in the season for JR to talk himself out of re-signing Spacek. Yeah, he's a nice guy and he's great in the room, but he doesn't have to be part of our future. Hopefully, he'll continue to suck like he did last night and we'll let him go to Boston or wherever as a UFA.
Not to say I told you so, but...I ****in' told you so. It was never a matter of "No one wanted Spacek". It was a matter of "No one wanted to pay the price that JR wanted for Spacek". Maybe he should have gotten the hint when teams would call about the asking price, then never make an offer.
to be fair, the market for Dmen was pretty high.. not second round pick for Jaro high but still.
What do you mean "to be fair." That's what EVERYONE'S saying. JR could've gotten a decent return on a shallow market for Spacek and DIDN'T. Nothing to be "fair" to him about...
