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getting rid of the red line

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11-08-2003, 01:02 PM
  #1
Jame
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getting rid of the red line

Is there any chance that will see a removal of the red line to open up the game and make it exciting again. the NHL must know that this will create a lot more exciting hockey, which in turn will put fans in the arenas, improve TV ratings, etc. The reason Im thinking about it is becasue players like Connolly and Afinogenov would be exciting and productive again.

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11-08-2003, 07:10 PM
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An interesting bit that I heard on CBC's satellite hotstove tonight was regarding a comment made by one of the league's best skaters. Mike Modano apparently told one of the reporters that it may be a better idea to get rid of the blue lines. That of course would give the teams half the rink to use for an offensive zone and the red line would be the offside line. I'd never heard that before and wondered what everyone else thought.

Normally, I play in a league that doesn't use the red line and it is an entirely different and better game. It opens things up for the better skating and passing teams, and creates a lot more scoring chances.
For the last two days I was in a tournament using the red line and it was horrible. I found it was a big adjustment to have to slow down while going through the neutral zone, and the chances to score off the rush were way down.

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11-08-2003, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy
An interesting bit that I heard on CBC's satellite hotstove tonight was regarding a comment made by one of the league's best skaters. Mike Modano apparently told one of the reporters that it may be a better idea to get rid of the blue lines. That of course would give the teams half the rink to use for an offensive zone and the red line would be the offside line. I'd never heard that before and wondered what everyone else thought.

Normally, I play in a league that doesn't use the red line and it is an entirely different and better game. It opens things up for the better skating and passing teams, and creates a lot more scoring chances.
For the last two days I was in a tournament using the red line and it was horrible. I found it was a big adjustment to have to slow down while going through the neutral zone, and the chances to score off the rush were way down.
Wouldn't that just clog up the middle of the ice more? And power plays would be lethal. Too radical of a change for my liking. The two changes I would make are the removal of the instigator rule and either not letting goalies play the puck outside of the crease or making them fair game.

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11-09-2003, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy
An interesting bit that I heard on CBC's satellite hotstove tonight was regarding a comment made by one of the league's best skaters. Mike Modano apparently told one of the reporters that it may be a better idea to get rid of the blue lines. That of course would give the teams half the rink to use for an offensive zone and the red line would be the offside line. I'd never heard that before and wondered what everyone else thought.
I suggested the same thing half-jokingly on the NHL Talk board several months ago. The theory being that if the neutral zone is eliminated, the neutral zone trap goes with it. The red line was actually added to improve the quality of the game.

(1943-44 - Red line at center ice introduced to speed up the game and reduce offside calls. This rule is considered to mark the beginning of the modern era in the NHL.)



Normally, I play in a league that doesn't use the red line and it is an entirely different and better game. It opens things up for the better skating and passing teams, and creates a lot more scoring chances.

As the skill level and pressure to win increases, the elimination of the red line tends to have the opposite effect. It's easier to trap because of the bigger neutral zone. That's why European hockey is so boring. In Sweden the most skilled, and highest payroll team adopted the torpedo system to combat the trap. In the NHL without the red line we might see 6 teams playing the torpedo system and the other 24 playing the trap. I don't think it will solve anything. It'll just cause a different variation of the same problem. I'm sure there will be more breakaways and odd-man rushes as teams will get caught before they can set up their traps, but ultimately the solution is to make the ice service bigger.

I recently read somewhere (tsn or slam) that there's no widespread support for eliminating the red line. The NHL never takes a long-range approach to problem solving so it could take another decade before they get serious about enlarging the ice surface. I expect them to do something like limiting the number of players from the "attacking" team that can remain in the defensive/neutral zone when the puck is in the offensive zone.

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11-09-2003, 06:11 AM
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Sure it would be exciting, but almost all of the teams would dislike it, as the coaches would have to implement a new style of coaching.Maybe get rid of 2 line pass?That could let floaters like Afinogenov stay outside of the other teams Blue Line when the pucks in our zone and wait for a pass if we regain the puck

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11-09-2003, 08:49 AM
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Could a compromise to the Modano idea (as mentioned above) be to back the blue lines up to make the current offensive zones much bigger, and eliminate the red line. Icing the puck would still be called, but it would be from the new blue line. And there would be no two line passes, which would allow for more speed through the neutral zone.

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11-09-2003, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy
Could a compromise to the Modano idea (as mentioned above) be to back the blue lines up to make the current offensive zones much bigger, and eliminate the red line. Icing the puck would still be called, but it would be from the new blue line. And there would be no two line passes, which would allow for more speed through the neutral zone.

I've suggested in the past pushing the blue lines closer together but keeping the red line. I'm not convinced that removing the red line would have any real positive effect for the reasons Buffaloed stated.

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11-09-2003, 09:11 AM
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The idea of getting rid of the red line allows a forward to sneak behind the opposing defencemen while the puck is in his end. When his team gets control, he can be wide open or use his speed to get ahead for a pass. Removing the center line also helps open the game up by allowing short passes from just inside your blue line to just over the red line to a player on the rush. The trap is so effective today because the defending team knows that the offence can't pass over the red line and they can sit back, clog the neutral zone and wait for a turnover.
From experience, I feel the game is far more exciting to play without the red line.

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11-10-2003, 03:25 AM
  #9
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Being a fan of college hockey, I have to put my vote on the side of at least trying the idea of allowing two line passes in the pre-season and perhaps for a season at the AHL level.

There is always the possibility of teams adopting the strategy that the German Olympic pulled at SLC (1 forechecker and 4 players lined up along their blueline), but I think at worst it would help open up the game when teams have poor linechanges.

They have to do something.

Whether it's moving the goal lines back and adding a few feet to the neutral zone, bringing back touch up offsides, or eliminating the instigator rule, the NHL has to do something to open the game up and get more scoring chances in the game.

And it's becoming obvious that messing with the goalie equipment isn't helping........

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11-10-2003, 07:05 AM
  #10
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I'm a fan of the widened bluelines (6 feet as opposed to the current 1 foot) that was suggested by Bobby Francis, I believe, over the summer. By making the blue lines wider you make both the neutral zone <i>and</i> the offensive zones wider.

Or, alternatively, if the real problem is the two-line pass, and personally, I think it is, then the first experiment is to widen the red line to 6 feet, thereby making the offensive neutral zone 2.5 feet wider. If that's not enough, you can then widen the bluelines as well, or some other option.

The widening of the lines creates more space within the same legal framework of the game without costly changes to the arenas in question. Beyond that, the only thing that will improve scoring in the NHL is making the goals bigger, which, BTW, the more I think about it, the more I think it's necessary.

6' 4" goalies who move like cats are too much for the 6' by 4' goal.

Lastly, move the nets back to their original position. There's not enough space in front of the net for the players to shoot.

Ta,

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11-10-2003, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joechip
I'm a fan of the widened bluelines (6 feet as opposed to the current 1 foot) that was suggested by Bobby Francis, I believe, over the summer. By making the blue lines wider you make both the neutral zone <i>and</i> the offensive zones wider.

It was Bob Gainey who wrote the article in the Hockey News





Lastly, move the nets back to their original position. There's not enough space in front of the net for the players to shoot.

Ta,
I like the idea of moving the nets back, but for tradition's sake keep the nets the same size. The NHL is doing the right thing by regulating the goalie' equipment

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11-10-2003, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy
I like the idea of moving the nets back, but for tradition's sake keep the nets the same size. The NHL is doing the right thing by regulating the goalie' equipment
For tradition's sake I agree the nets should stay the same, but the reailty is that it's getting darn close to stuffing the net with a Sumo wrestler who can just lay down and cover the whole thing.

Any combination of the proposals that are out there would improve the offensive flow to the game, the biggest being breaking the neutral zone trap by widening the effective coverage zone of the trap. But, that being said, with the size and skill of the skaters and the goalies coupled with the committment to defense that exists, scoring will not improve much.

Adding 6 inches to both the height and width of the net should create more opportunity for goals. The more confident shooters are, the more they shoot. That's what's really missing from today's game, a general confidence amongsxt shooters that they can actually score on an opposing goalie. Restore that and you restore some excitment up and down the ice.

Ta,

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11-12-2003, 06:52 AM
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LALALALALALAFONTAINE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
Is there any chance that will see a removal of the red line to open up the game and make it exciting again. the NHL must know that this will create a lot more exciting hockey, which in turn will put fans in the arenas, improve TV ratings, etc. The reason Im thinking about it is becasue players like Connolly and Afinogenov would be exciting and productive again.
The red line was ADDED to increase offense.

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11-12-2003, 06:58 AM
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LALALALALALAFONTAINE
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You want more offense? GET RID OF THE INSTIGATOR.

When the NHL had a network TV deal, the Flyers were known as the Broad St. bullies. Now?

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11-12-2003, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
You want more offense? GET RID OF THE INSTIGATOR.

When the NHL had a network TV deal, the Flyers were known as the Broad St. bullies. Now?
LaLa, I agree completely. The instigator rule is monumentally stupid and worse, IMO, contrary to the code of hockey.

I'm in agreement with Don Cherry on this one.

Ta,

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11-12-2003, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
You want more offense? GET RID OF THE INSTIGATOR.

When the NHL had a network TV deal, the Flyers were known as the Broad St. bullies. Now?
I'm not buying that merely getting rid of the instigator rule would open up the offensive floodgates.

Back before the instigator rule was brought into effect the goalies wore smaller equipment, weren't as well trained, and most importantly the neutral zone trap and other defensive minded systems weren't all the rage throughout the NHL.

The fixation on defensive play, the emphasis on limiting the other team's chances, and the general desire to take a solid defensive player with limited offensive skills over a player that is talented offensively, but a mess in his own zone, is what is suffocating the game.

And I'm not sure how getting rid of the instigator rule will change that defensive mindset that has taken hold throughout the NHL and all levels of hockey for that matter.

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11-14-2003, 09:36 AM
  #17
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
I'm not buying that merely getting rid of the instigator rule would open up the offensive floodgates.

Back before the instigator rule was brought into effect the goalies wore smaller equipment, weren't as well trained, and most importantly the neutral zone trap and other defensive minded systems weren't all the rage throughout the NHL.

The fixation on defensive play, the emphasis on limiting the other team's chances, and the general desire to take a solid defensive player with limited offensive skills over a player that is talented offensively, but a mess in his own zone, is what is suffocating the game.

And I'm not sure how getting rid of the instigator rule will change that defensive mindset that has taken hold throughout the NHL and all levels of hockey for that matter.
The reason why the trap wasn't the rage prior to the introduction of the instigator is because it is incompatible with it. The Devils have 3 Cups after the instigator. Systems are brought in to take advantage of the rulebook. Where was the trap before the instigator? In Europe, where fighting does not exist for the most part.

You hook a Gretzky? Meet his linemate, Mr. Semenko. After a while, you tire of meeting Mr. Semenko, so you stop hooking Gretzky. Since the trap has come into being, Lemieux retired prematurely, Modano and Thornton have threatened to retire early. Why? Because of the excess holding.

This is confirmed by a member of the most offensively adept team in NHL history:
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/031103/6/vcot.html

Concussions are suddenly commonplace. In a lot of cases, like Barnes, that would not happen if the instigator was eliminated.

The emphasis on not having players screw up defensively has always been there. Paul Coffey was benched for his play in his end. And defensive-minded systems have been in place too. Scotty Bowman gained his prominence coaching the St. Louis Blues to Stanley Cup Finals on several occasions.

Goalies wearing larger equipment? Granted. That has a minor effect on the style of play. If anything, you could argue players would take more chances.

Are they better trained? Not any more than other players are.

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11-14-2003, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbubble
Well the theory is that you won't continue clutching and grabbing or hooking if everytime you did it, someone gave you a pop in the kisser.
I'm guessing it wouldn't take too long for someone to change their habits.

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11-14-2003, 09:46 AM
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Has anyone ever played in a league or tournament that used a 4 on 4 format? I'm wondering how different that style of game would be over the course of a 60 min game.

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