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Old
03-04-2012, 07:41 PM
  #1
LyricalLyricist
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Attracting UFAs

Am I the only who feels that beyond the taxes, language and yada yada that if the habs want a top UFA like Suter, Parise or whatever that they'll need to make a blockbuster trade?

I know it sounds stupid, but if you're a UFA who wants to win, I highly doubt montreal's record+controversy are a selling point.

If the habs were to make a splash and say trade Plekanec+ for a legit big #1 center then I'm sure our perception around the league would change.

If you were UFA, can you seriously say you feel this management would do what it takes to win? I really don't see UFAs thinking that despite if it's true or not.

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Old
03-04-2012, 07:51 PM
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what's the point of ufa's? we overpay for the mediocre ones, then we run them out of the city for garbage/zero returns...

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03-04-2012, 08:14 PM
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Et le But
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Who is this "legit big center" we can trade Plekanec for? What's the +?

I keep hearing that all we need is this magical big center to save the day, but any PPG big center isn't going to be available for Plekanec and scraps.

None of our prospects right now are going to get us an elite center.

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03-04-2012, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
what's the point of ufa's? we overpay for the mediocre ones, then we run them out of the city for garbage/zero returns...
There's always a legit UFA available that sneaks through.

Brad Richards, Kovalchuk, etc.

Suter and Parise may be UFA this very summer.

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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Who is this "legit big center" we can trade Plekanec for? What's the +?

I keep hearing that all we need is this magical big center to save the day, but any PPG big center isn't going to be available for Plekanec and scraps.
Just an example. Even getting a top notch D is also a step forward IMO. The + can be substantial depending on who we're talking about. It just wouldn't be our young core or 2012 1st. The rest is on the board IMO.

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03-04-2012, 08:25 PM
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Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
There's always a legit UFA available that sneaks through.

Brad Richards, Kovalchuk, etc.

Suter and Parise may be UFA this very summer.



Just an example. Even getting a top notch D is also a step forward IMO. The + can be substantial depending on who we're talking about. It just wouldn't be our young core or 2012 1st. The rest is on the board IMO.
Really our best option is to overpay for one UFA and hope it attracts others. A trade works too but it's never simple. Gainey tried this with the Gomez trade, and while that arguably helped us get Cammalleri and Gionta (by overpaying all of it), it's turned out to be a disaster. What's funny is how much the Rangers built off that- they used the Gomez money to bring in Gaborik, than focused on freeing up more space for Richards.

I just don't think we have the talent to trade for an elite player without blind luck or being willing to give up either our pick or Subban. If we trade Plekanec it will probably be a younger but comparable player. Plekanec isn't going to get you Eric Staal.

Really UFAs are the best bet, unfortunately this is a bad year. I don't think we can get either Parise or Suter but if you offer a stupid enough deal you are in the mix. And I know a lot of people don't want to hear this, but if Semin hits free agency, you make him an offer. Nobody is knocking down the door to play with Semin but until we get more depth, I am sceptical a trade will be anything more than a step sideways.

The best way to start is not taking on more contracts. It's getting rid of Gomez and maybe Kaberle at all costs.

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Old
03-04-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
There's always a legit UFA available that sneaks through.

Brad Richards, Kovalchuk, etc.

Suter and Parise may be UFA this very summer.



Just an example. Even getting a top notch D is also a step forward IMO. The + can be substantial depending on who we're talking about. It just wouldn't be our young core or 2012 1st. The rest is on the board IMO.
I think Montreal should inquire about Edmonton's "Cam Barker" 25 years old "RFA" in the summer had some injuries this year but won the Stanley cup with Chicago he would definitely be a good fill for Hal Gill. Just a thought

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03-04-2012, 08:27 PM
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Habs will draft a young star center and we will sign some wingers in the next couple years.


Last edited by Patofqc: 03-04-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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03-04-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gomez91 View Post
I think Montreal should inquire about Edmonton's "Cam Barker" 25 years old "RFA" in the summer had some injuries this year but won the Stanley cup with Chicago he would definitely be a good fill for Hal Gill. Just a thought
Cam Barker is horrible. Seriously bad. He'd make you dream of having Gill back. And was he not traded before the cup run with Chicago?

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Old
03-04-2012, 08:34 PM
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Attracting UFAs

I find using really strong cheese at the tip of the trap attracts UFAs.

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03-04-2012, 08:40 PM
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When was the last time the Habs landed a big time UFA ?.

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03-04-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomez91 View Post
I think Montreal should inquire about Edmonton's "Cam Barker" 25 years old "RFA" in the summer had some injuries this year but won the Stanley cup with Chicago he would definitely be a good fill for Hal Gill. Just a thought
All I hear about him from Edmonton fans is that he sucks, so no thanks.

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03-04-2012, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Cam Barker is horrible. Seriously bad. He'd make you dream of having Gill back. And was he not traded before the cup run with Chicago?
You are right he was traded early that year Chicago won the cup. When I watched the guy in Chicago he reminds me of Josh Gorges early years not what Josh is now.

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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Cam Barker is horrible. Seriously bad. He'd make you dream of having Gill back. And was he not traded before the cup run with Chicago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
All I hear about him from Edmonton fans is that he sucks, so no thanks.
Really Edmonton picked Cam Barker as the one who sucks? Not the team as a whole maybe? Young and definitely room for improvement but Cam is the sole reason there in 29th place?

Look at the UFA ready in the summer for Boston alone someone on defense will have to go?

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03-04-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
When was the last time the Habs landed a big time UFA ?.
In the cap era?

There was competition for Michael Cammalleri and Erik Cole.

There are 30 teams in the NHL and not a lot of big name UFAs. This year the big names are Suter, Parise, and Semin. Most teams are going to lose out.

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Old
03-04-2012, 09:28 PM
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Kjell Dahlin
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Short terms, this team will need to overpay.

-----------

The following is a repost:

1. We were successful at attracting UFAs when Carbonneau was giving breathing room to our offensive players: in 2007-08 the Canadiens were the 2nd best offence in the league and in 2008-09 they ranked 12th.

After suffocating under Martin the players now have to tolerate "goonish", simplistic dump and chase hockey from a coach who seems to have no clue. Kostitsyn was misused, Plekanec is always playing with different wingers (often 3rd, 4th liners or AHLers), Gomez keeps receiving more PP time than Eller and, lately, Plekanec...

2. Taxes are not a problem; what's the difference between Quebec and Ontario or the British-Colombia? 1%? 2%? Factor in the cost of living and the efficiency of today's accountants and I doubt it is a factor.

3. The lack of leadership showed by the top brass is worrisome and, short terms, it will force our Habs to overpay... but luckily for us, we are chatting about one of the wealthiest organization - with room for manoeuvre from a cap perspective - in the NHL. An organisation/city that was recently voted, despite our problems, "favourite rink to play in" and 5th for "team would you most like to play on" by the NHL players. ref.: http://www.playerspoll.ca/

So...
  • New coach in 2012-13 (Roy, Vincent...)
  • New GM in 2012-13 (Timmins, Julien Brisebois, Jim Nill, Roy…)
  • Overpayment during the next 1-2 year(s)
  • Stability

Long story short (!): if a guy like Parise decides to test the market, chances are he would sign with us if we offer him 1-2 M$ more per year than anyone else. It is not ideal and long terms it would not be a viable situation but we have a good mix of vets (Gionta, Cole, Gorges...) and young players, the Canadiens are among the leaders in terms of man-games lost due to injury, there is plenty of room under the cap and Cunneyworth carried the interim tag since day 1 => there is hope.


PS imo Plekanec is part of the solution.


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 03-04-2012 at 09:38 PM.
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03-04-2012, 09:37 PM
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Are we ever gonna see a superstar player from Quebec sign with the Habs as an UFA?

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03-04-2012, 09:37 PM
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When you're not a top destination, you will have to overpay.

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03-04-2012, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
When you're not a top destination, you will have to overpay.
This

We can get star players, but we would have to give them much much more than what they are asking


They know we are desperate

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03-04-2012, 09:56 PM
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Unless we have a legit chance to win a cup (which we won't for at least a few seasons), we shouldn't sign any UFA's. It just pushes us from a lottery team which are talent says we are, to a barely making / missing the playoff team. We won't ever be able to build with high end young players if we keep bandaiding everything.

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03-04-2012, 09:57 PM
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lou4gehrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post
This

We can get star players, but we would have to give them much much more than what they are asking


They know we are desperate
No we can't. Star players usually have enough money that the extra 1-2 million we can offer isn't enough for them to choose a winning team. We get good players like Camm and Cole to sign here, but we have no shot at Parise or Suter. Not until we land some franchise forwards to go with our franchise goalie.

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Old
03-04-2012, 10:02 PM
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Are we ever gonna see a superstar player from Quebec sign with the Habs as an UFA?
Superstar players from Quebec aren't running the streets these days sadly. Who was the last one to have hit the UFA market? Briere some years ago?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig
Unless we have a legit chance to win a cup (which we won't for at least a few seasons), we shouldn't sign any UFA's. It just pushes us from a lottery team which are talent says we are, to a barely making / missing the playoff team. We won't ever be able to build with high end young players if we keep bandaiding everything.
Thing is we are not like Calgary (for instance). We have some good young pieces we can build on and we could easily be competitive with a key signing, a good coach and perhaps a good trade or two. Easier said than done of course but what else can we do?

We need to build this team on Price, Pacioretty, 2012 first rounder and Subban as key components. Cole, Eller, Leblanc, Desharnais, Gionta, Plekanec, Emelin, Gorges can be good core players for some years.

UFA signings are one of few ways to bring value to the team's playing roster. The other ways are drafting (long term plan), acute trading (in the end its very rare a team actually gains value from trading. you win some and lose some) and waiver picking (very low risk/very low reward).

Long term we need to devote attention to the draft but by the time 2nd rounders this year and next year make the NHL Price will be closing on 30 years old, to put things in perspective. Its important to try and be competitive in the next two years to instill a winning attitude to this sorry mess of a team we have. Sure we are tanking this year but I'll be pissed if we do the same next year.


Last edited by FlyingKostitsyn: 03-04-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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Old
03-04-2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
When you're not a top destination, you will have to overpay.
the reality is that any star caliber player who hits UFA is looking for a pay day.

when is the last time any team landed a truly elite player "at a discount"?

When it comes to that caliber of player, if you are getting him on the open market, money talks.

it's the slightly below "star" players whom we've overpaid for in recent memory, but even then, when a UFA is changing teams, unless he's on the last 2-3 years of his career, they tend to go to the highest bidder.

yeah, rumor has it we offered more for Smyth/Briere back in the day, but without full details of what the contract offer they turned down was, we don't really know the full contract story (difference in term, difference in movement clauses) or the difference in "opportunity" that was promised the player (role, linemates, future moves to be made).


In the end, I think as long as we're willing to outbid other teams (as we did in '09, unfortunately on the wrong type of players), then we're just as likely a destination as most other teams.

if there are 2-3 teams offering basically the same contract ($$/term), that's were other factors come to play, but in that regard (assuming we get the coaching/management circus in order), the allure to play for Montreal is a big positive that gets under-appreciated around here imo.

players, especially those with a strong sense of hockey history (and many elite players do, having grown up every bit -if not more- the hockey fan that any poster is), relish the opportunity to become part of the tradition that montreal is... not too mention playing in front of a packed house every single night.

the media stuff, the language stuff, the taxes... I honestly think they are much less of an issue, especially for the kind of guys you want, than people make them out to be.

icing a winner, or being able to, is obviously important... but as a perennial cap spending team, and with some of the solid pieces we already have in place, I think a top notch UFA wouldn't have a hard time seeing himself as part of the "solution" in making the habs a contender... can't forget the ego that goes with these guys

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03-04-2012, 10:16 PM
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Some teams can get guys to sign for a little less than fair market or at fair market value.

Some teams have to overpay star players

Then there are the teams that overpay secondary/complimentary players.

The Habs are not a popular destination. Yes, the history is great and the city cares about the team but frankly there are too many things about Montreal that players do not like. Media, pressure, taxes, etc.

If you think the Habs are at the top of players lists, you may be living in a bubble.

The only way the Habs start becoming a popular destination is if they start winning CONSISTENTLY and are lead by quality, well-respected, people.

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Old
03-04-2012, 10:19 PM
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loudi94
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Shane Doan is the type of player we may attract. On the down end of his career, may get a 2-3 year deal for more money than he's worth. Related to Price....On the other hand, he may want a shot at the cup so he signs with a strong contender, but you know what I mean.

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Old
03-04-2012, 10:19 PM
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Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Some teams can get guys to sign for a little less than fair market or at fair market value.

Some teams have to overpay star players

Then there are the teams that overpay secondary/complimentary players.

The Habs are not a popular destination. Yes, the history is great and the city cares about the team but frankly there are too many things about Montreal that players do not like. Media, pressure, taxes, etc.

If you think the Habs are at the top of players lists, you may be living in a bubble.

The only way the Habs start becoming a popular destination is if they start winning CONSISTENTLY and are lead by quality, well-respected, people.
"... The Habs are not a popular destination. Yes, the history is great and the city cares about the team but frankly there are too many things about Montreal that players do not like. Media, pressure, taxes, etc.

If you think the Habs are at the top of players lists, you may be living in a bubble
..."

-------

Q. What team would you most like to play on?

A. The Montreal Canadiens, despite our recent problems, ranked 5th.

-------

The questions were circulated to players by the NHLPA. The responses were compiled by staff members of the NHLPA and forwarded to Hockey Night in Canada. 318 players responded to the questionnaire.

Ref.: http://www.playerspoll.ca/results/20...ike-to-play-on

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Old
03-04-2012, 10:43 PM
  #25
Nicko999
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It worked pretty well the last time we made a trade to attract UFAs.

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