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Old
03-04-2012, 11:24 PM
  #26
Miller Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
"... The Habs are not a popular destination. Yes, the history is great and the city cares about the team but frankly there are too many things about Montreal that players do not like. Media, pressure, taxes, etc.

If you think the Habs are at the top of players lists, you may be living in a bubble
..."

-------

Q. What team would you most like to play on?

A. The Montreal Canadiens, despite our recent problems, ranked 5th.

-------

The questions were circulated to players by the NHLPA. The responses were compiled by staff members of the NHLPA and forwarded to Hockey Night in Canada. 318 players responded to the questionnaire.

Ref.: http://www.playerspoll.ca/results/20...ike-to-play-on
shhhh...

don't rain on the parade of a perfectly baseless argument...

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Old
03-04-2012, 11:31 PM
  #27
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
shhhh...

don't rain on the parade of a perfectly baseless argument...
I think there's a distinction between saying "now" and "in my career". A lot of people, even habs fans, may want to play for the habs, but many wouldn't spend a career here. Winners, top players, want competitive teams, not bottom dwellers.

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03-04-2012, 11:33 PM
  #28
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Imagine if you were a superstar in Montreal the money you could get from sponsors, the amount of fine women you could plow, a place in the history of NHL's most storied franchise..

Downsides:
Taxes (big downside)
Pressure (some people choke, true winners don't mind)
Weather

Language (hardly a downside IMO)

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Old
03-04-2012, 11:37 PM
  #29
SouthernHab
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The answer to the problem is simple.

Picture yourself as an elite UFA winger. You probably would think that playing in Montreal would be awesome with its history and its rabid fans as well as being a great place to live.

So you look at Montreal as a viable option. Pierre Gauthier contacts your agent. He tells him that he wants you as a Hab. You look at Jacques Martin (now his protege Cunneyworth) and the style of hockey that he plays. Dump and chase. Your game relies on speed and you arent a big physical guy.

You also watch the NHL Network a lot. You notice that when Gionta was thrown to the ice, no one stood up to fight for him. Same for when the Bruins came to town and the only people fighting back were Pouliot (last year) and Moen. Then you read about the Gauthier signings and his trades for some really weak DMen.

Pierre is willing to pay you $1.5 million more per season. Boston Bruins are willing to pay you $1.2 million more per season.

Which team do you sign with?

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Old
03-04-2012, 11:41 PM
  #30
lou4gehrig
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
UFA signings are one of few ways to bring value to the team's playing roster. The other ways are drafting (long term plan), acute trading (in the end its very rare a team actually gains value from trading. you win some and lose some) and waiver picking (very low risk/very low reward).
I think drafting and trading are the best ways to gain value. I disagree that gain value from trading is rare. Some teams value present player value and are in a position to win a cup. Others are looking for potential.

As a franchise, we need to start turning our good role type players into younger players with higher potential. Think Mats Sundin for Wendell Clark. I think guys like Pleks, Gionta, Cole, Markov could be packaged for some prospects and picks to maybe land some higher end talent.

I just look at the trade Colorado made with St. Louis. Erik Johnson for Stewart and Shattenkirk. All good first round players. These teams are loaded with similar young players with natural physical and hockey abilities. Not just try hard guys. These two franchises are loaded with this type of high end natural talents. So they can be factors on the trade market or play them and let them develop. Aside from Subban, MaxPac and Price we don't have enough of these high end players.

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03-04-2012, 11:48 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
I think drafting and trading are the best ways to gain value. I disagree that gain value from trading is rare. Some teams value present player value and are in a position to win a cup. Others are looking for potential.

As a franchise, we need to start turning our good role type players into younger players with higher potential. Think Mats Sundin for Wendell Clark. I think guys like Pleks, Gionta, Cole, Markov could be packaged for some prospects and picks to maybe land some higher end talent.

I just look at the trade Colorado made with St. Louis. Erik Johnson for Stewart and Shattenkirk. All good first round players. These teams are loaded with similar young players with natural physical and hockey abilities. Not just try hard guys. These two franchises are loaded with this type of high end natural talents. So they can be factors on the trade market or play them and let them develop. Aside from Subban, MaxPac and Price we don't have enough of these high end players.
And we get back to the million dollar question. Why not?

Your fault? My fault? The fans fault?

We know whose fault it is. Gainey/Gauthier. They have destroyed this team. But there will be their supporters coming out and propping them up.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:19 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The answer to the problem is simple.

Picture yourself as an elite UFA winger. You probably would think that playing in Montreal would be awesome with its history and its rabid fans as well as being a great place to live.

So you look at Montreal as a viable option. Pierre Gauthier contacts your agent. He tells him that he wants you as a Hab. You look at Jacques Martin (now his protege Cunneyworth) and the style of hockey that he plays. Dump and chase. Your game relies on speed and you arent a big physical guy.

You also watch the NHL Network a lot. You notice that when Gionta was thrown to the ice, no one stood up to fight for him. Same for when the Bruins came to town and the only people fighting back were Pouliot (last year) and Moen. Then you read about the Gauthier signings and his trades for some really weak DMen.

Pierre is willing to pay you $1.5 million more per season. Boston Bruins are willing to pay you $1.2 million more per season.

Which team do you sign with?
If I were a NHLer, the team in terms of players or coaches wouldn't even be the priority. If I'm not happy in the city I live in, then I'm gonna have a hard time enjoying myself, and while hockey would be my job, it's certainly not my life.

I would never want to play in places like Long Island and Buffalo, or most canadian cities outside Vancouver, Mtl and Toronto, even if they had a good team.
If we're talking about cup contenders, than that may sway me over but only short term, like 2 years at the most.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:36 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If I were a NHLer, the team in terms of players or coaches wouldn't even be the priority. If I'm not happy in the city I live in, then I'm gonna have a hard time enjoying myself, and while hockey would be my job, it's certainly not my life.

I would never want to play in places like Long Island and Buffalo, or most canadian cities outside Vancouver, Mtl and Toronto, even if they had a good team.
If we're talking about cup contenders, than that may sway me over but only short term, like 2 years at the most.
Virtually everywhere there's a team would be decent to live in if you have a lot of money. Most Islanders for instance probably live in the city anyway, what hurts them more is everything else is awful - the worst facilities in the league, uncertain ownership, no fans. I mean I'd rather live in Montreal than Edmonton any day, but any decent sized city will have its comforts.

But some places are definitely better than others. Montreal might not be New York or LA for a pro athlete who has everything, but outside of the weather it offers a very high standard of living and above average food and entertainment. Besides that though, the team will provide for you. You might question the Habs short term management but it's one of the richest teams in the league and has unrivalled influence and power within the city it represents.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:50 AM
  #34
lou4gehrig
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
And we get back to the million dollar question. Why not?

Your fault? My fault? The fans fault?

We know whose fault it is. Gainey/Gauthier. They have destroyed this team. But there will be their supporters coming out and propping them up.
Simple. 1 top 5 picks in the last 20 years (and that was from the lockout lottery).

Pre-draft scouting and drafting have become alot more of an exact science nowadays. There are still busts, but we just have had the chance to land those great elite skill players.

The blame? The fans, the media, the organization. Always trying to win and make the playoffs at the expense of having a true chance to win a cup. Just look at Toronto. They've missed the playoffs so many years in a row, yet still have a rabid fan base and sell out their games. We should just commit to losing for a few years and start collecting our own Crosby, Malkin, Staal.

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:47 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The answer to the problem is simple.

Picture yourself as an elite UFA winger. You probably would think that playing in Montreal would be awesome with its history and its rabid fans as well as being a great place to live.

So you look at Montreal as a viable option. Pierre Gauthier contacts your agent. He tells him that he wants you as a Hab. You look at Jacques Martin (now his protege Cunneyworth) and the style of hockey that he plays. Dump and chase. Your game relies on speed and you arent a big physical guy.

You also watch the NHL Network a lot. You notice that when Gionta was thrown to the ice, no one stood up to fight for him. Same for when the Bruins came to town and the only people fighting back were Pouliot (last year) and Moen. Then you read about the Gauthier signings and his trades for some really weak DMen.

Pierre is willing to pay you $1.5 million more per season. Boston Bruins are willing to pay you $1.2 million more per season.

Which team do you sign with?
If you do, you're a year late...

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:56 AM
  #36
coolasprICE
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Taxes, Taxes and Taxes. This is the single biggest fact to why UFA's don't sign here.

contention, weather, politics, pressure, fans, media are all secondary and less important.

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Old
03-05-2012, 02:09 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Taxes, Taxes and Taxes. This is the single biggest fact to why UFA's don't sign here.

contention, weather, politics, pressure, fans, media are all secondary and less important.
While I don't know if this is valid or not, this calculator shows that on a $5,000,000 adjusted income, taxes in Ontario would actually be 1.8% greater than in Quebec. It may not include certain taxes. But for what it's worth:


http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax

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Old
03-05-2012, 02:46 AM
  #38
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I'd gladly overpay significantly (say 8+ million/year) for a D like Suter.

Not only is there no way in hell for us to get a D of that caliber any other way, but the trickle down effect of having (potentially) Markov - Gorges as our SECOND pairing is just too good to pass up. Look at St Louis or NYR, they hardly score more goals than we do as it is, yet they're at the top of the league.

Couple that with the addition of a potential first line player through the draft this year and the results will be well worth the overpayment.

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Old
03-05-2012, 05:37 AM
  #39
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I think our best chance at attracting UFAs is the right coach. Someone players will WANT to play for.

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Old
03-05-2012, 05:50 AM
  #40
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Players in the last few years we signed off of UFA:

Camalleri
Gionta
Gill
Spacek
Cole

So UFAs will come here but like everyone else we will have to overpay them. We will also have to get our house in order. After the gong show that was this year, Molson will have to quickly get a new management team in place and announce a new coaching staff before July 1st.

We have to show the UFAs we want to sign that this ownership group means buisness. That means by April 8th, Gauthier & Gainey are let go, Cunneyworth and his staff of novices are out the door. By the middle of May Molson should announce his new GM and the new GM should announce his new coach by the last week in June. We have to demonstrate to the targeted UFAs we are putting in place a strong team that will contend for the Cup. We have to convince them that this year was an aberration. We have to prove to them that we will quickly turn it around. No player wants to come to a lottery pick team.

We should also get Gionta & Cole to speak to the targeted UFAs and have those two tell them what they think of the city, the fans and the team.

And I would target Parise & Suter plus a gritty 3rd liner. Once they're signed, Gomez, Kaberle, Campoli and even Gionta are traded or moved.

The problem is, will Molson want to do all this?

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Old
03-05-2012, 05:53 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The answer to the problem is simple.

Picture yourself as an elite UFA winger. You probably would think that playing in Montreal would be awesome with its history and its rabid fans as well as being a great place to live.

So you look at Montreal as a viable option. Pierre Gauthier contacts your agent. He tells him that he wants you as a Hab. You look at Jacques Martin (now his protege Cunneyworth) and the style of hockey that he plays. Dump and chase. Your game relies on speed and you arent a big physical guy.

You also watch the NHL Network a lot. You notice that when Gionta was thrown to the ice, no one stood up to fight for him. Same for when the Bruins came to town and the only people fighting back were Pouliot (last year) and Moen. Then you read about the Gauthier signings and his trades for some really weak DMen.

Pierre is willing to pay you $1.5 million more per season. Boston Bruins are willing to pay you $1.2 million more per season.

Which team do you sign with?
UFAs are typically signing contracts that commit them for the next five, six, seven years. I doubt that the playing style of an interim coach who is going to be replaced by the time they sign is of any consequence to their decision, much less the playing style of the previous coach who has already been sacked.

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Old
03-05-2012, 06:17 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Players in the last few years we signed off of UFA:

Camalleri
Gionta
Gill
Spacek
Cole

So UFAs will come here but like everyone else we will have to overpay them. We will also have to get our house in order. After the gong show that was this year, Molson will have to quickly get a new management team in place and announce a new coaching staff before July 1st.

We have to show the UFAs we want to sign that this ownership group means buisness. That means by April 8th, Gauthier & Gainey are let go, Cunneyworth and his staff of novices are out the door. By the middle of May Molson should announce his new GM and the new GM should announce his new coach by the last week in June. We have to demonstrate to the targeted UFAs we are putting in place a strong team that will contend for the Cup. We have to convince them that this year was an aberration. We have to prove to them that we will quickly turn it around. No player wants to come to a lottery pick team.

We should also get Gionta & Cole to speak to the targeted UFAs and have those two tell them what they think of the city, the fans and the team.

And I would target Parise & Suter plus a gritty 3rd liner. Once they're signed, Gomez, Kaberle, Campoli and even Gionta are traded or moved.

The problem is, will Molson want to do all this?
Don't say "like everyone else". All these deals were big overpayments in term and $$$. No other team offered close to what we offered for these guys. So grossly overpaying for 2nd and 3rd tier players is what the Habs have been doing.

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Old
03-05-2012, 07:23 AM
  #43
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it will be hard to attract UFA this summer unless we overpay by a wide margin. Then we'll have the same problems we've had in the last two years.

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03-05-2012, 07:46 AM
  #44
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People need to be more realistic here. There are very few superstar players who ever reach UFA status and we're not going to get every single one of them, or maybe not even any of them for that matter.

We don't HAVE to go after the big UFA every year. Who was it this year? Brad Richards. Who did we sign? Erik Cole

Brad Richards: 18G 27A 45P

Erik Cole: 23G 23A 46P

Be smart about UFA signings and don't just overpay for big names or this organization will be in worse shape than it already is.

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03-05-2012, 07:53 AM
  #45
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Once we've drafted some good forwards and theyre given time to develop, bring them up and see how they gell, then we add a big name UFA.. Why add $$$$$ to the cap if were not a contender?

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03-05-2012, 08:14 AM
  #46
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I'd gladly overpay significantly (say 8+ million/year) for a D like Suter.

Not only is there no way in hell for us to get a D of that caliber any other way, but the trickle down effect of having (potentially) Markov - Gorges as our SECOND pairing is just too good to pass up. Look at St Louis or NYR, they hardly score more goals than we do as it is, yet they're at the top of the league.

Couple that with the addition of a potential first line player through the draft this year and the results will be well worth the overpayment.

I would overpay for a stud D-man this year. We need a veteran presence on the blue line who can play both ends of the ice. Time to make other fans complain that we are trying to circumvent the cap.

Ryan Suter - 8-8-8-7-7-5-3-2 = 6M cap hit

Suter gets his money up front and lets compound interest be his friend. We get a stud D-man to pair with Subban and have a Markov-Gorges second pairing.

Suter-Subban
Markov-Gorges
Emelin-Kaberle/Diaz
Weber

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Old
03-05-2012, 08:25 AM
  #47
Patty Roy
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Forget a trade...the only way we attract a guy like Parise or Suter is to massively overpay...both in annual salary and term.

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to doing it for the right player though.

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Old
03-05-2012, 08:26 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
I would overpay for a stud D-man this year. We need a veteran presence on the blue line who can play both ends of the ice. Time to make other fans complain that we are trying to circumvent the cap.

Ryan Suter - 8-8-8-7-7-5-3-2 = 6M cap hit

Suter gets his money up front and lets compound interest be his friend. We get a stud D-man to pair with Subban and have a Markov-Gorges second pairing.
I don't think that's overpaying for Suter. He will get similar offers, if not better, from other more desirable locations this summer.

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03-05-2012, 08:29 AM
  #49
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Forget a trade...the only way we attract a guy like Parise or Suter is to massively overpay...both in annual salary and term.

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to doing it for the right player though.
I don't know why people are still thinking Parise will since with the Habs. He's said that he's only going to be signing with a winning/contending team.

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Old
03-05-2012, 08:29 AM
  #50
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Am I the only who feels that beyond the taxes, language and yada yada that if the habs want a top UFA like Suter, Parise or whatever that they'll need to make a blockbuster trade?

I know it sounds stupid, but if you're a UFA who wants to win, I highly doubt montreal's record+controversy are a selling point.

If the habs were to make a splash and say trade Plekanec+ for a legit big #1 center then I'm sure our perception around the league would change.

If you were UFA, can you seriously say you feel this management would do what it takes to win? I really don't see UFAs thinking that despite if it's true or not.
Big time #1 centers rarely get traded, and when they do it's either because their play has gone in the toilet or costs a small fortune(overpayment).

A guy like Getzlaf could be available but unless you can sign him to an extension, you may end up paying a huge price for a guy that's only here 1 year.

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