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Racism in Hockey?

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Old
03-03-2012, 09:23 PM
  #26
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some of what i remember about hockey was a bit scary. it must of been the combination of crowded stairwells, thoughts of people getting their heads punched in, cigarettes and the movie silence of the lambs.

and of course you survey your class mates after the experience and it did not seem to be very common.

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03-03-2012, 09:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by drivesrf View Post
Where can I see that movie can't find it anywhere! It looks great
Walmart. Go watch mighty ducks. Its written by the main actor and produced by his father. He even bought tickets daily to inflate his box office to get a US release.

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03-04-2012, 12:15 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
Quite the contrary. Almost all the Asian players I know who plays hockey in Taiwan or Shanghai are really good players. Most people either pick up the sports when they're really young or never pick it up at all.
I don't want to sound presumptious, but I somehow doubt whether Shanghai or Taiwan have the same level of hockey as we do in Canada.... I'm sure its good, but most of us have grew through developmental organization at various levels and a very large majority of Canadians have played organized hockey.

Also most people I know who make it into Midget AAA -> Jr B/A or higher, are also not only incredibly skilled, hard/tough, but also predominately larger... (i.e. 5'11+ and 170+ at a minimum)

The only SE Asian's/Orients of a first gen that I know of that are skilled and tough, regardless of size, are those Vietnammers who moved here during their war at a young enough age to pick up the game competitvely.
Boy are they ever tough, and they don't ******** around.

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03-04-2012, 12:22 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Sounds extremely racist to me, bunch of *******s IMO. As for hockey culture in general, I've played with/against players of all races and never seen much in the way of racism, but I'm white so I wouldn't be experiencing it firsthand. While hockey is a fairly white sport, almost every team I've played on has had at least a few non-white players (have played/lived in Toronto and Vancouver, two pretty multicultural cities), and I can't bring to mind any racism on the teams at all.



I don't know, in Vancouver there are TONNES of excellent Asian hockey players.
I only moved here to start university, but have been here for around 7-8 years now, and in all the beer league hockey I've played it's been around 55% white, 30% Asian, 15% other ethnicities, with the Asian players being every bit as good as the white players on average. On my highschool hockey team in Toronto, our best player was Chinese, and our 2nd best player was Indian, though both were 1st generation Canadians. As you said, it's mostly kids who are ethnically Asian but born in Canada, but that's obviously going to be the case since hockey isn't too popular in most/all Asian countries.

No, don't lie, if they were excellent they'd be in the NHL. Nevertheless, that's horrible that they didn't let you in. Maybe they think you're small?

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03-04-2012, 12:31 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ninetynine View Post
No, don't lie, if they were excellent they'd be in the NHL.
Oh, Lord - you can't be serious.

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03-04-2012, 12:37 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ninetynine View Post
No, don't lie, if they were excellent they'd be in the NHL. Nevertheless, that's horrible that they didn't let you in. Maybe they think you're small?
this may be a correct statement...
there is a fairly low number of non-white players in the NHL

that being said, how many ethnic groups from Canada, such as Greeks, Italians, Portuguese, and French are in the show, that aren't your typical Canadian WASP?

With players like Kariya, Yip, Oshie, Subban, Kane, Iginla coming through and taking top 6 roles, and with the way Canada welcomes multi-nationalism, well... things will change as more people become exposed to the game

it is, or has happened in every game: soccer, golf, football and basketball (if you go back enough time)

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03-04-2012, 01:43 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsMyAlibi View Post
I don't know how you're so calm about it. They were being racist to your face and it's disgusting.


While I agree that it's not an epidemic...it's still pretty damn bad these days.
Well to be honest, having lived in various western/european cities, getting racial slur is not uncommon for me... especially now that i'm older i find that i can ignore those too well, they just don't worth the effort.

I didn't expect getting that in my own country though, hahahah. That's a first alright.

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03-04-2012, 04:49 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ninetynine View Post
No, don't lie, if they were excellent they'd be in the NHL.
Give it time. I'm a first generation Canadian of Indian descent who grew up on the game, my dad lived in Montreal for 10 years when he first arrived 30 years ago and has been a Habs fan ever since. I started playing when I was 7 however topped out at midget AA. Most other first gens I know with a similar cultural background didn't have the luxury of being exposed to organized sports even less got the chance to play ice hockey, a few started in their mid-teens. However most of these guys are huge hockey fans and plan to (like me) live vicariously through their children. Give it another 15 years and I suspect the demographics of the NHL to change significantly.

TO OP: As for the racism, in my ~13 years of playing ice hockey, only once was I the subject of racial slurs and that was back when I was in middle school. I attributed to kids of that age just being mean in general. It sucks that you met some jackass's who said what they said, I find it disgusting... but I respect you for playing it cool. Is the pick-up these guys play public? or did they reserve the ice? If its public just jump on the ice, no one can tell you to get off and no one will once they see you can keep up. However, in my opinion these sound like a group of guys I wouldn't even want to play with but I can imagine the scarcity of hockey playing/loving guys in Indonesia.


Last edited by Kulluminati: 03-04-2012 at 05:07 AM.
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03-04-2012, 05:39 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by r3cc0s View Post
I don't want to sound presumptious, but I somehow doubt whether Shanghai or Taiwan have the same level of hockey as we do in Canada.... I'm sure its good, but most of us have grew through developmental organization at various levels and a very large majority of Canadians have played organized hockey.

Also most people I know who make it into Midget AAA -> Jr B/A or higher, are also not only incredibly skilled, hard/tough, but also predominately larger... (i.e. 5'11+ and 170+ at a minimum)

The only SE Asian's/Orients of a first gen that I know of that are skilled and tough, regardless of size, are those Vietnammers who moved here during their war at a young enough age to pick up the game competitvely.
Boy are they ever tough, and they don't ******** around.
Some of the locals I played with in Taiwan are probably the equivalent of guys who played junior B/A in Canada. Obviously the cream of the crop can't compare to the top guys in North America, but the average level of play there is higher because most of the guys who play started really early, and took a lot of classes.

Shanghai on the other hand had fewer locals in the league. There were a few though. They're either coaches, guys who played pro in Asia before, or absolutely horrible. Pretty extreme there.

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03-04-2012, 06:58 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by michaelshu View Post
So, i found out that there are a group of expats playing every tuesday and i visited and ask if i could join.. they said that they don't accept asian players. They also said that they play pretty hardcore, so I stayed and watch the game... turns out that they're mostly 35+ and play with no contact.. i'm not sure what they mean by "hardcore"

By the end of the game, i tried to talk to another guy who was Canadian and he joked something about asians should not play this kind of game.
Do you guys think that was racist? Or he just didn't like me? They could've just said that they are full, and I'll be fine with it.. but saying stuff like that is not cool in my opinion.

So, any of you guys have experienced something similar? What did you guys do?

PS: I'm not trying to bash Canadians, in fact i love Canadians, i've known a lot of Canadians, they're one of the most friendliest people on earth! Well, except for this one...

Cheers!
Are you Canadian?
You can't tell a Canadian by looking at us.......we came from every where.
Did they mean local players and said Asian due to location?


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Old
03-04-2012, 07:03 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulluminati View Post
Give it time. I'm a first generation Canadian of Indian descent who grew up on the game, my dad lived in Montreal for 10 years when he first arrived 30 years ago and has been a Habs fan ever since. I started playing when I was 7 however topped out at midget AA. Most other first gens I know with a similar cultural background didn't have the luxury of being exposed to organized sports even less got the chance to play ice hockey, a few started in their mid-teens. However most of these guys are huge hockey fans and plan to (like me) live vicariously through their children. Give it another 15 years and I suspect the demographics of the NHL to change significantly.

TO OP: As for the racism, in my ~13 years of playing ice hockey, only once was I the subject of racial slurs and that was back when I was in middle school. I attributed to kids of that age just being mean in general. It sucks that you met some jackass's who said what they said, I find it disgusting... but I respect you for playing it cool. Is the pick-up these guys play public? or did they reserve the ice? If its public just jump on the ice, no one can tell you to get off and no one will once they see you can keep up. However, in my opinion these sound like a group of guys I wouldn't even want to play with but I can imagine the scarcity of hockey playing/loving guys in Indonesia.
Well yeah I tend to play it cool when stuff like that happens, except in addition to that, this time i'm surrounded by 6' guys lol.. they're just tall though, not big muscular or anything, and definitely beer bellies... I'm only 5'6 or 5'7 (170 cm)

They reserve the ice, that's why I had to asked their permission. The rink in my city have public games on Sunday, but it's awfully crowded. That's why I play every Saturday night in another city (about 3 hours drive), yeah it's far but I can reserve the ice 4 hours cheap.
I tried to join the expats to add some ice time on weekdays, where I won't have to drive as far but tough luck I guess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
Are you Canadian?
You can't tell a Canadian by looking at us.......we came from every where.
No, I'm Indonesian of chinese and dutch descent. The only thing dutch about me is my nose though...
I know he's Canadian because I usually ask things like "Hi, what's your name?" and "Where are you from?" when I meet foreigners. Ya know.. chit chats.

Oh, and the "eh?" at the end of sentences. I like those haha

"Did they mean local players and said Asian due to location?" - yeah i think so, they are expats who've lived for a while I think.


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Old
03-04-2012, 07:38 AM
  #37
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^^
There are pigs everywhere.
We used to see plush frogs hung on sticks with nooses at games involving french and english communities and racist jeers thrown towards players of colour.
But those days are mostly behind us.
I just can't see that happening in a rink in Canada today.
No-one's gonna turn you away because of your ethnicity (or should be allowed to)
But as i said pigs are to be found everywhere unfortunately

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03-04-2012, 08:10 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
Some of the locals I played with in Taiwan are probably the equivalent of guys who played junior B/A in Canada. Obviously the cream of the crop can't compare to the top guys in North America, but the average level of play there is higher because most of the guys who play started really early, and took a lot of classes.

Shanghai on the other hand had fewer locals in the league. There were a few though. They're either coaches, guys who played pro in Asia before, or absolutely horrible. Pretty extreme there.
in all seriousness, are you certain that the skill level, physical and speed is at the same level? Players who play Jr A often eventually play for CIS, or a professional minor league, or in Europe..

heck Kevin Bieska, Giordano both played Jr A. before going their own route, prior to the NHL

Jr. B is no slouch neither, and regardless of how early you play (as long as its not too late...) its still about your compentancies, and the physicality is a huge componant of the game

Its really easy for individuals or teams to look much better than others, if the skill levels aren't evenly matched... In my C division non-contact league I can pretty much walk around with plenty of time and dangle in ways I couldn't if the pace and skill was better, or the physical play warrant more of a "heads-up" and quick play.
When I play lunch time hockey with a buncha ex-Jr or ex-minor pro players... well some days I can barely keep up

I just don't see many scouts looking in SE asia for draft picks tis all... not saying its an ethniticity thing, but I just can't see how there is as much of a system or appetite for something that Hockey Canada provies.

Its like saying this... Canadian's have "great" soccer players
Truely, there are some tremendous players, well disciplined and good clubs, but we just don't pump out the volume of high-level professionals, nor compete anywhere near at an international level.
When I played div 2 for a local club here... my friend's Irish cousin came into town, went to camp and immediately got placed in the premier level "Major" team.
When I ask him how our "football" is compared to home, and he said no comparison... when he played back home, he wasn't even middle of the pack, but in Major, he was a stand-out player, even against clubs that brought up players such as Hargraves


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03-04-2012, 10:50 AM
  #39
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Is it possible its a work loop? Like the guys from wal-mart get together and play the guys from K-mart? or the guys from Canadian Tire? Still no excuse for the asian jokes I guess.

Sad truth is, at least as a teenager playing competitvely there is a TON of racism chirps going around. Weird thing is our league is 98% white kids and they chirp each other for being white?

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03-04-2012, 01:05 PM
  #40
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The only thing I can think of is that the guys you ran into didn't want to bring on players who weren't around their skill level, and assumed that most locals weren't very good at hockey. In any case, to say they "Don't let Asians play" is just bigoted and racist. Don't sweat it at all... you don't want to play with guys like that anyways. You never know when one of those jerks is going to decide that you're not allowed to steal the puck off of him or dangle him because you're an Asian guy and throw a cheap shot at you.

Growing up as an Indian guy playing hockey I've dealt with a little bit of racism. I can really only cite four incidents I've encountered personally, and maybe three more I've witnessed second-hand in my ten years of playing. I started relatively late at 13 (having only started skating at age 12) and took my fair share of it right up to my final season of minor hockey. In the adult leagues I played in, I found a fair bit of diversity. Many teams had a good mix of different people from different backgrounds. Of course, you'd run into the odd team that had a few legitimately racist guys, or guys who wanted to get under your skin by playing the race card. The amusing thing is that *every time* it was a team full of white guys who you could tell grew up outside of the city. They always seemed to be the kind of delusional hockey players who thought they were 100x better than they were, and couldn't get over the fact that they weren't playing for the Stanley Cup. It's the typical case of those "never was" guys wanting to live out their childhood fantasies of being hockey players.

What I've learned is that, 99% of the time, this kind of stuff comes from people who are using it as a means to vent their frustrations about other aspects of their life. In the case of the guys you mentioned, I'm sure they were a little homesick and perhaps had a bad experience with locals. Perhaps they felt like they were being mistreated, or otherwise encountered some racism themselves being in the minority... something they really weren't used to back home, and have a jaded opinion you got to experience first hand.


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03-04-2012, 06:29 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn1331 View Post
Is it possible its a work loop? Like the guys from wal-mart get together and play the guys from K-mart? or the guys from Canadian Tire? Still no excuse for the asian jokes I guess.

Sad truth is, at least as a teenager playing competitvely there is a TON of racism chirps going around. Weird thing is our league is 98% white kids and they chirp each other for being white?
Yeah that's quite possible actually.

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Originally Posted by noobman View Post
The only thing I can think of is that the guys you ran into didn't want to bring on players who weren't around their skill level, and assumed that most locals weren't very good at hockey. In any case, to say they "Don't let Asians play" is just bigoted and racist. Don't sweat it at all... you don't want to play with guys like that anyways. You never know when one of those jerks is going to decide that you're not allowed to steal the puck off of him or dangle him because you're an Asian guy and throw a cheap shot at you.

Growing up as an Indian guy playing hockey I've dealt with a little bit of racism. I can really only cite four incidents I've encountered personally, and maybe three more I've witnessed second-hand in my ten years of playing. I started relatively late at 13 (having only started skating at age 12) and took my fair share of it right up to my final season of minor hockey. In the adult leagues I played in, I found a fair bit of diversity. Many teams had a good mix of different people from different backgrounds. Of course, you'd run into the odd team that had a few legitimately racist guys, or guys who wanted to get under your skin by playing the race card. The amusing thing is that *every time* it was a team full of white guys who you could tell grew up outside of the city. They always seemed to be the kind of delusional hockey players who thought they were 100x better than they were, and couldn't get over the fact that they weren't playing for the Stanley Cup. It's the typical case of those "never was" guys wanting to live out their childhood fantasies of being hockey players.

What I've learned is that, 99% of the time, this kind of stuff comes from people who are using it as a means to vent their frustrations about other aspects of their life. In the case of the guys you mentioned, I'm sure they were a little homesick and perhaps had a bad experience with locals. Perhaps they felt like they were being mistreated, or otherwise encountered some racism themselves being in the minority... something they really weren't used to back home, and have a jaded opinion you got to experience first hand.
Well, I can't blame them for assuming. Indonesians are very new to hockey, none of us have ever experienced organized competitions, except me and a few others but even that was only juniors and it was not for long, and most of us never thought of it as a career choice. We are aware of our physical inferiority. It's just dissapointing when guys like me who are trying to build up the game, often get shot down when looking for support.. I've experienced similar stuff in Singapore too. I mean, wouldn't it be great if all of us can get along and just play?

Now that you mentioned it, they probably experienced racism. No, they definitely have. Indonesians are very racist towards white people due to political/religious issues in the past, but only the ones with less education still do that. We ourselves have too many diversity within our own countrymen... and even that is still causing problems til now.

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03-04-2012, 07:31 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by r3cc0s View Post
in all seriousness, are you certain that the skill level, physical and speed is at the same level? Players who play Jr A often eventually play for CIS, or a professional minor league, or in Europe..

heck Kevin Bieska, Giordano both played Jr A. before going their own route, prior to the NHL

Jr. B is no slouch neither, and regardless of how early you play (as long as its not too late...) its still about your compentancies, and the physicality is a huge componant of the game

Its really easy for individuals or teams to look much better than others, if the skill levels aren't evenly matched... In my C division non-contact league I can pretty much walk around with plenty of time and dangle in ways I couldn't if the pace and skill was better, or the physical play warrant more of a "heads-up" and quick play.
When I play lunch time hockey with a buncha ex-Jr or ex-minor pro players... well some days I can barely keep up

I just don't see many scouts looking in SE asia for draft picks tis all... not saying its an ethniticity thing, but I just can't see how there is as much of a system or appetite for something that Hockey Canada provies.

Its like saying this... Canadian's have "great" soccer players
Truely, there are some tremendous players, well disciplined and good clubs, but we just don't pump out the volume of high-level professionals, nor compete anywhere near at an international level.
When I played div 2 for a local club here... my friend's Irish cousin came into town, went to camp and immediately got placed in the premier level "Major" team.
When I ask him how our "football" is compared to home, and he said no comparison... when he played back home, he wasn't even middle of the pack, but in Major, he was a stand-out player, even against clubs that brought up players such as Hargraves
I guess you'll have to see for yourself one day. Drop by Taiwan/Shanghai in the future and play with them. I've played with guys who played in the NCAA/DEL/Junior A players before (I suck ass, but there are some really good players in Asia and all the levels are mixed into one league). I thought the skill level of a few guys in Taiwan was comparable to the Junior A player I played with before. And I believe those guys also play for TW's national team.

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03-04-2012, 09:42 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
I guess you'll have to see for yourself one day. Drop by Taiwan/Shanghai in the future and play with them. I've played with guys who played in the NCAA/DEL/Junior A players before (I suck ass, but there are some really good players in Asia and all the levels are mixed into one league). I thought the skill level of a few guys in Taiwan was comparable to the Junior A player I played with before. And I believe those guys also play for TW's national team.
its possible no doubt
just again though... it would be WAY way easier to standout when you're playing with various skill levels well below you are.

It'd be like a Jr A player, playing down to Jr C...

the NCAA is pretty close in caliber to our Major Jr (CHL)... so if that is the case, that is seriously some talent

but why "I" doubt it.. is that during world cup friendlies or tourneys, or heck IIHF rankings, the highest ranking SE Asian country is Japan, and I belive that by a far margin they produce a much more competitive international team than even China, which is 10x the size.

but anyways... in Canada especially... no reason to be racist

things have changed significantly in the last 20 years, and it may take another 20 years until bigot mentalitiesd no longer affect our daily lives (i.e. School, bullying, sports, work, etc...)

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03-05-2012, 10:11 AM
  #44
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I'm brown and I've learned in this game that it's better to just let your speed/skill do the talking. keep your head up buddy.

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03-05-2012, 10:50 AM
  #45
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I would really like to hope that there was some kind of joke involved.

Otherwise, that's some of the most bold and unnecessary racism I've ever heard. Not many racists have the balls to actually say it to someone's face and risk a confrontation.

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03-05-2012, 11:07 AM
  #46
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It just depends on your area. On my team there are women and gays, nobody other than white people except a couple subs who played from time to time, but non-white make up maybe 1-2% of the league. Nobody cracks race/gay jokes. We used to scrimmage against a gay team and one sub dropped the F-bomb on them and wasn't welcome to play with us after that.

Hockey players aren't racist. People are. You have good and bad people. Find some good ones!

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03-05-2012, 08:33 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
I guess you'll have to see for yourself one day. Drop by Taiwan/Shanghai in the future and play with them. I've played with guys who played in the NCAA/DEL/Junior A players before (I suck ass, but there are some really good players in Asia and all the levels are mixed into one league). I thought the skill level of a few guys in Taiwan was comparable to the Junior A player I played with before. And I believe those guys also play for TW's national team.
As someone who played in Taiwan for four years and knows the players you're talking about (foreign and local) quite well, I gotta say you're a bit off thinking they could play Junior A. One Canadian there (you'd know him if you saw him play) played NCAA Div 1, and he's head and shoulders above everyone else there. Having seen the national team play a few times, I'd put them about Junior C or B level. I've seen a couple Junior A games this year, the Taiwan national team would get creamed by them. Especially if you're talking small rink and bodychecking.

There's a couple guys I can think of who could maybe handle Junior B, but it's difficult to say given the context. These guys haven't necessarily had high levels of coaching, they didn't grow up with body contact, and they're used to playing on an olympic sized rink. The context really is different.

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03-06-2012, 01:24 PM
  #48
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Country: Indonesia
Posts: 251
vCash: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I would really like to hope that there was some kind of joke involved.

Otherwise, that's some of the most bold and unnecessary racism I've ever heard. Not many racists have the balls to actually say it to someone's face and risk a confrontation.
Actually... racists in my country are pretty bold.. There's this neverending racism between the native and chinese descent.. even though our nationality are the same. Ridiculous, yes.

He prolly picked that up from the neighborhood

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