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Old
03-05-2012, 10:45 AM
  #26
Rick Deckard
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Bob still has 1 yr left on his deal
My fault, thanks.

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03-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by flyers1975fan View Post
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Jaromir Jagr ($3.000m) - at $3.3 mill this season, but said money wouldn't be an issue in resigning, so $300k off shouldn't be a problem
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) - hopefully fully healed
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.000m) - small raise for potential, hasn't put up the numbers for a big pay day yet in my opinion
Sean Couturier ($1.375m)
Daniel Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
It's time to let Jagr walk. Couturier needs a top 9 role, and he can't get that while Jagr is here. Of course on top of that, Wellwood and Talbot can clearly play in the top 9.

Jagr is redundant and needlessly expensive here, as good as he is.

Also keep in mind that the salary numbers for Couturier and Schenn are 0.93m and 0.90m respectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers1975fan View Post
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Pavel Kubina ($2.750m) - major discount, but he said he wanted an extension here
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossman ($3.000m) - has been more than solid, this might not be enough to keep him here but i can dream
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.000m) - small raise if he can prove good enough to be a starter
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
I don't mind this one bit. If Bryzgalov continues to play at an NHL quality level than this defense is fine. If he does not, then we have to go get Suter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers1975fan View Post
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m)
Niko Hovinen ($0.950m) - or any other solid free agent goaltender
No to Niko Hovinen. We have no way of knowing whether or not he's ready. We keep Bob for the time being, and Bob's cap hit is less than Hovinen's at 0.90m.

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:07 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
It's time to let Jagr walk. Couturier needs a top 9 role, and he can't get that while Jagr is here. Of course on top of that, Wellwood and Talbot can clearly play in the top 9.

Jagr is redundant and needlessly expensive here, as good as he is.

Also keep in mind that the salary numbers for Couturier and Schenn are 0.93m and 0.90m respectively.



I don't mind this one bit. If Bryzgalov continues to play at an NHL quality level than this defense is fine. If he does not, then we have to go get Suter.



No to Niko Hovinen. We have no way of knowing whether or not he's ready. We keep Bob for the time being, and Bob's cap hit is less than Hovinen's at 0.90m.
I'm guessing you are assuming there will be a cap cushion next year?

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:12 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I'm guessing you are assuming there will be a cap cushion next year?
A bonus cushion?

Like I said, it's something that greatly benefits both sides. I explained it in detail in another thread with basically the same topic.

Unless the rules are changed drastically to the point where we don't even have the same contract make-up as we do under this current CBA, I can't see them making a change to the ELCs and how they operate under the cap.

I'm not assuming. I'm making an educated guess that the league and NHLPA will agree to not drastically change contract structure of the current league across the board let alone get rid of a practice that benefits both sides greatly while having been proven more than effective.

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:37 AM
  #30
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Alright, I re-did the roster taking into account things that were posted here.

Now it's basically identical to this year's roster minus Jagr who is too expensive to resign.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Matt Carle walk because it's clear he is not the type of defensemen we need at the moment, but indications are that he will be resigned.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:04 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by flyers1975fan View Post
Alright, I re-did the roster taking into account things that were posted here.

Now it's basically identical to this year's roster minus Jagr who is too expensive to resign.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Matt Carle walk because it's clear he is not the type of defensemen we need at the moment, but indications are that he will be resigned.
13th forward? they'll almost definitely go w/ a 22 man roster. I'd assume Shelley would be the 13th cause Paul seems to have a man crush on him. if it were Shelley that would leave like 600k in cap space

id be happy w/ that line-up

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03-05-2012, 12:20 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
13th forward? they'll almost definitely go w/ a 22 man roster. I'd assume Shelley would be the 13th cause Paul seems to have a man crush on him. if it were Shelley that would leave like 600k in cap space

id be happy w/ that line-up
I think Shelley is done after this season here. Sestito shown he could do much more on the ice and was getting playing time over Shelley.

I also don't know why Jagr wouldn't be wanted back on this team next season. The guy can still play at 40 years old and has the type of work ethic that can be taught to the younger players on the team.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:23 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by flyers1975fan View Post
Alright, I re-did the roster taking into account things that were posted here.

Now it's basically identical to this year's roster minus Jagr who is too expensive to resign.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Matt Carle walk because it's clear he is not the type of defensemen we need at the moment, but indications are that he will be resigned.
You have to use a higher upper limit, early estimate is $69MM, they may negotiate a different share for the players in the new CBA but we don't know about that.

Your new figure on Carle is low, 25 minutes, 40 point defenseman earn a lot money in free agency, no matter how good we think they are. Wideman got $4MM in '08 (RFA, 7%), Giordano got $4MM last year (RFA, 6,3%), Hamhuis got $4.5MM in '10 (UFA, 7.5%), Kronwall has a new deal starting next year for $4.75MM (UFA, 7%) ... I expect around 7.5% for him, Hamhuis seems to be a good comparism, not a #1 on any team, can play many minutes, no team discount, $5.2MM for Carle.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:24 PM
  #34
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Also If Ryan Suter does not sign in Nashville and becomes a Free Agent, the Flyers will be big time players. They will move the necessary salary to make it work. If that means Mez or Coburn have to go to fit Suter in, i'll be a very happy fan.

I also think the cap will still increase with all the drama about the CBA though. Maybe to the 66 million mark or around there after it is all done and over with. The players union will want the cap to be able to continue to climb because it means more money on the table for free agents.

I also think one of Kubina or Grossman will walk via free agency. I would want to keep Grossman because of his age mostly. He could be had for around 3 million too. If won't take much more than that.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:24 PM
  #35
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I also don't know why Jagr wouldn't be wanted back on this team next season. The guy can still play at 40 years old and has the type of work ethic that can be taught to the younger players on the team.
Well, the problem is that the Flyers need to resign 5 people (Jagry, Voracek, Carle, Kubina, Grossman) and only have the cap space for 4.

Most people are convinced Carle is going to be back by unpopular demand. It seems unlikely they'll let Grossman and Kubina walk with how solid they've been. It doesn't make sense to let Voracek go when he has major potential.

So it just comes down to the fact that Jagr seems like the odd man out, even if its for reasons the fans don't agree with.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:26 PM
  #36
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You have to use a higher upper limit, early estimate is $69MM, they may negotiate a different share for the players in the new CBA but we don't know about that.
Are you sure? I've seen people speculating that it could actually be lowered.

That seems like a major increase.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:29 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
$3.2MM would be 60% of what his real value is ... that's a huge paycut.

Bobrovsky is a RFA, if he doesn't like what we offer he can sign with every team outside the NHL, like in Russia.

Jagr is not worth as much as similar point-producers of younger ages because his lack of youth brings more health uncertainty.

However, I agree with you that it would not be fair to expect Jagr to take anything less than the $3.3 M he got this year. Hopefully there is enough good-will on both sides that they can bring him back for the same exact amount he makes now.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:32 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by flyers1975fan View Post
Are you sure? I've seen people speculating that it could actually be lowered.

That seems like a major increase.
The only figure that has been speculated so far, yes. Link: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...29&postcount=1

As said, new CBA, owners want a bigger share of the revenue ... but that has to be negotiated.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:34 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by flyers1975fan View Post
Are you sure? I've seen people speculating that it could actually be lowered.

That seems like a major increase.
He is correct, but it may only be temporary.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1109757

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:24 PM
  #40
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It's time to let Jagr walk.
Completely disagree. Was at the morning skate in Wpg and he is clearly the leader on this team. He spent the whole practice teaching. He spent lengths of time with pretty much everyone, both on the ice and at the white board on the side. What stood out the most, was his time with Timmo, and especially Briere. He was instructing both and they were listening like rookies. Totally new level of respect for Jagr.

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:54 PM
  #41
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I think Shelley is done after this season here. Sestito shown he could do much more on the ice and was getting playing time over Shelley.

I also don't know why Jagr wouldn't be wanted back on this team next season. The guy can still play at 40 years old and has the type of work ethic that can be taught to the younger players on the team.
Oh i know Sestito can do more for this team than Shelley but he still has 1 more yr left on his contract and I don't see Paul moving him.

As for Jagr, its not a matter of wanting him back on the team next year (which i do) but more so fitting him on the team. If the cap increases to 69 mil then its not a problem at all but if the cap stays the same or even decreases (highly unlikely imo) as many have speculated under the new CBA then its a problem. I'm next to positive the Flyers won't land Suter, as much as i hate to admit it, even If he hits the market (and thats a big if) so they'll have to sign some D-men like Carle, Grossman and Kubina or some combination of the two and bring up Gus/MAB. Then they have to re-sign both Jagr and Jake. At 64 mil I don't see how thats possible. If it comes between the two of them or trading another young forward to make room for Jagr the Flyers kinda have to let him go.

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03-05-2012, 02:08 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Oh i know Sestito can do more for this team than Shelley but he still has 1 more yr left on his contract and I don't see Paul moving him.

As for Jagr, its not a matter of wanting him back on the team next year (which i do) but more so fitting him on the team. If the cap increases to 69 mil then its not a problem at all but if the cap stays the same or even decreases (highly unlikely imo) as many have speculated under the new CBA then its a problem. I'm next to positive the Flyers won't land Suter, as much as i hate to admit it, even If he hits the market (and thats a big if) so they'll have to sign some D-men like Carle, Grossman and Kubina or some combination of the two and bring up Gus/MAB. Then they have to re-sign both Jagr and Jake. At 64 mil I don't see how thats possible. If it comes between the two of them or trading another young forward to make room for Jagr the Flyers kinda have to let him go.
Not too long ago Homer said to one of our beat writers that if a big name star dman was to become available via free agency, he could move salary to make it work. They didn't mention any names though(they can't of course). So I would believe that your almost positive claim that the Flyers won't get Suter is wrong. Sign Suter and trade Mez. It really wouldn't be that hard to fit him if the cap goes up.

Quote:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.000m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
/ / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossman ($2.725m) / Ryan Suter ($6.800m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Pavel Kubina ($3.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $66,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,421,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,133,056
That's with a modest raise of the cap. Even if it goes up less then that it could work.
Also I took Shelley out because I believe he will get the Cote treatment.

Edit:Found Randy Millers tweet.

https://twitter.com/#!/RandyJMiller/...83562319757312

Quote:
Without naming names, #Flyers Homer suggested he'd be able to make trades in July to free cap space to sign star D (such as Suter)


Last edited by Prongo: 03-05-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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Old
03-05-2012, 02:22 PM
  #43
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I would improve our D 1st. Throw as much as possible on D.

Hartnell Giroux Briere 14.45
JVR Schenn Simmonds 9.35
Read Couturier Voracek 4.75
Sestito Talbot Rinaldo 2.9
.500K forward

Suter Timonen 12.8
Coburn Meszaros 8.7
Grossman Kubina 5.3
Gus .9

Bryzgalov 5.6
Bobrovsky 1.75

67M

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03-05-2012, 02:25 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Juicer View Post
Completely disagree. Was at the morning skate in Wpg and he is clearly the leader on this team. He spent the whole practice teaching. He spent lengths of time with pretty much everyone, both on the ice and at the white board on the side. What stood out the most, was his time with Timmo, and especially Briere. He was instructing both and they were listening like rookies. Totally new level of respect for Jagr.
THIS!

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03-05-2012, 02:33 PM
  #45
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Completely disagree. Was at the morning skate in Wpg and he is clearly the leader on this team. He spent the whole practice teaching. He spent lengths of time with pretty much everyone, both on the ice and at the white board on the side. What stood out the most, was his time with Timmo, and especially Briere. He was instructing both and they were listening like rookies. Totally new level of respect for Jagr.
If it is between getting 26 year old Suter or resigning 40 year old Jagr. Thank you very much for the season it's been fun but sorry JJ. Getting stud on D for the next 6-7-8 seasons is more important.

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03-05-2012, 02:34 PM
  #46
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I would improve our D 1st. Throw as much as possible on D.

Hartnell Giroux Briere 14.45
JVR Schenn Simmonds 6.90
Read Couturier Voracek 4.83 (Voracek @ 3.00)
Sestito Talbot Rinaldo 2.9
Holmstrom 0.60

Suter Timonen 12.83 (Suter @ 6.50)
Coburn Meszaros 8.50
Grossman Kubina 5.30 (Grossman @ 3.00, Kubina @ 2.3)
Gus 0.90

Bryzgalov 5.67
Bobrovsky 0.90

63.78m
SALARY CAP: 64.30
CAP SPENT: 63.78
CAP SPACE (assuming no change in cap): 00.52

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Old
03-05-2012, 02:35 PM
  #47
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Not too long ago Homer said to one of our beat writers that if a big name star dman was to become available via free agency, he could move salary to make it work. They didn't mention any names though(they can't of course). So I would believe that your almost positive claim that the Flyers won't get Suter is wrong. Sign Suter and trade Mez. It really wouldn't be that hard to fit him if the cap goes up.



That's with a modest raise of the cap. Even if it goes up less then that it could work.
Also I took Shelley out because I believe he will get the Cote treatment.
Just cause Homer said he'll move salary doesn't mean other teams like Detroit, Leafs or Rangers can't move salary and make it work. There comes a point where its just not worth it. Seems like most Flyers fans on here are counting on him being a Flyer. All I'm saying is that there are many possible outcomes to this and the most likely imo is that he never makes it to free agency. Many have speculated that both Suter and Weber wanted to see a commitment to winning from the organization before they themselves would commit to deals. Considering the commitment they made to winning via the trades they made: Gil, Kostitsyn and Gaustad (which was a big overpayment) why would the Preds let him walk?

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03-05-2012, 02:40 PM
  #48
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Well, the problem is that the Flyers need to resign 5 people (Jagry, Voracek, Carle, Kubina, Grossman) and only have the cap space for 4.

Most people are convinced Carle is going to be back by unpopular demand. It seems unlikely they'll let Grossman and Kubina walk with how solid they've been. It doesn't make sense to let Voracek go when he has major potential.

So it just comes down to the fact that Jagr seems like the odd man out, even if its for reasons the fans don't agree with.
If they re-sign Carle and Grossman, it will mean very little cash left for Kubina - and if they sign him too, it means that Gus and Bourdon will probably have to be dealt (Anyone know their status re: waivers next year?) and would be wasted at 8 and 9 (with Lilja back as 7D).

Let's see how the whole year and playoffs play out. If I had to prioritize, I'd say Jagr will be a higher priority than Kubina, but there are a lot of ifs.

After last offseason, I don't think we can speculate what's going on in the boardroom, or who else might get traded before the draft....

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03-05-2012, 02:41 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
SALARY CAP: 64.30
CAP SPENT: 63.78
CAP SPACE (assuming no change in cap): 00.52
There will be a change, cap will go up to 67-68M I think . I've created a thread a while back. Cap was over 68 per some article I posted. No guarantees (of course) but with new TV deals and strong Jets market. Why not?

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03-05-2012, 03:02 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Just cause Homer said he'll move salary doesn't mean other teams like Detroit, Leafs or Rangers can't move salary and make it work. There comes a point where its just not worth it. Seems like most Flyers fans on here are counting on him being a Flyer. All I'm saying is that there are many possible outcomes to this and the most likely imo is that he never makes it to free agency. Many have speculated that both Suter and Weber wanted to see a commitment to winning from the organization before they themselves would commit to deals. Considering the commitment they made to winning via the trades they made: Gil, Kostitsyn and Gaustad (which was a big overpayment) why would the Preds let him walk?
Agree completely. There are really two options:

1. Suter and Weber both walk, one this year and another next year.

2. Suter and Weber both sign extensions after this season.

I think 2. is more likely, but if 1. happens, the cost will be so high we can't do it without wrecking the team too much.

Would it be too much to ask Briere or Kimmo to waive their no-trades?

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