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Old
03-05-2012, 02:53 AM
  #51
JabbaJabba
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Originally Posted by Theridion View Post
One small thing:

This season has left a bad taste in my mouth... Maybe its just me, but seeing a lot of the same names over again next year doesn't get me excited.

I kinda want to see Selanne retire and koivu move on... just for the sake of shaking things up. I know that's horrible to say.
Letting Selänne retire and letting some other players go might not be the worst thing to do. This really reminds me of Finland's WC team last Spring because for the first time it didn't have every veteran player who were on the top of their careers ten years ago. It was a brand new team with younger Koivu as it's captain with young veterans from all around Europe instead of "the old gang". These guys were hungry for success. WC and NHL isn't the same thing but the same mentality can be used for building a NHL team. Selänne is still good but maybe it's time to move on. I'm sure he doesn't want to become a burden for the team so I hope he knows when it's time to let the youngsters in (and I know that I put Selänne in my lineup but I think he could be good in 2nd line with very talented and young center and with Bobby).

Also I would like to say that UFA market doesn't look too good this year so people saying "let's sign a 2nd line center" might want to say the name since I can't find anyone. That's why I would like to see the Ducks draft a center with 1st pick and hope that he can be the 2nd line center with two veterans as his wingers.


Last edited by JabbaJabba: 03-05-2012 at 03:27 AM.
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Old
03-05-2012, 03:39 AM
  #52
DuckJet
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How did Teemu go from a team leading wonder to a burden in a matter of a few poor games? Seriously. The guy IS leading our team in points. So he's fumbled a few pucks lately. What's the basis of comparison on this team? Who is setting these standards and expectations?

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03-05-2012, 03:43 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
How did Teemu go from a team leading wonder to a burden in a matter of a few poor games? Seriously. The guy IS leading our team in points. So he's fumbled a few pucks lately. What's the basis of comparison on this team? Who is setting these standards and expectations?
I didn't say he is a burden yet. I just don't want him to become burden. Also like I said, sometimes letting the young guys take over is for the best.

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03-05-2012, 04:04 AM
  #54
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It's still too early to say something concrete...It's all about Saku and Teemu, if the won't return we must hit FA and sign at least one top six player (maybe LW A. Kostitsyn)...I expect that better one from Etem - Palmieri will play in top six (as a first liner or as a second linet, if Teemu will retire)...would be great to keep Hagman for 1.5 - 1.7mln...I would love to see Konopka in our lineup, real and usefull 4th line C...Brookbank? Yes, but only as a 7th d-man, max contract 1 mln...keep Lydman and pair him with Schultz/Vatanen or trade him and sign Brad Stuart and he will play with one of them...

Without Teemu :

A.Kostitsyn? - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan - Koivu - Etem/Palmieri
Cogliano - Bonino/Holland/McMillan - DSP
Beleskey/McMillan - Konopka - Hagman

Cam - Beauch
Lubo - Sbisa
Lydman/Stuart - Schultz/Vatanen
Brookbank or someone else

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03-05-2012, 04:16 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Please tell me that's sarcasm.
Yep, definite sarcasm. Thought it was obvious lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
10-11 Lydman was easily worth 3 mil. Not this year.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find many UFA defensemen signed recently that are on better deals than Lydman, even with the down year (which I attribute to his shoulder surgery, not a decline in ability). He's still too valuable to us to go looking elsewhere, imagine the hit our PK would take without him. Also would you rather Schultz/Vatanen are broken into the NHL playing alongside Lydman or Brookbank? To me that's an easy answer.

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03-05-2012, 04:32 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Yep, definite sarcasm. Thought it was obvious lol.



I think you'd be hard pressed to find many UFA defensemen signed recently that are on better deals than Lydman, even with the down year (which I attribute to his shoulder surgery, not a decline in ability). He's still too valuable to us to go looking elsewhere, imagine the hit our PK would take without him. Also would you rather Schultz/Vatanen are broken into the NHL playing alongside Lydman or Brookbank? To me that's an easy answer.
It can be hard to tell around here at times.

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03-05-2012, 05:59 AM
  #57
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We need to get a better 2nd line RW! That's the key. Selanne was 4th in RW scoring last year and now he's just 9th. Next year he probably drops out of the top10 so he's only good for an average 3rd liner.

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03-05-2012, 06:26 AM
  #58
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Legitimate 2nd line centre is the most important thing as far as I'm concerned.

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03-05-2012, 06:48 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDuck93 View Post
Penner-Getzlaf-Perry
Etem-Roy-Selanne
Smith pelley-Cogliano-Hagman
Beleskey-Konopka-Parros

Fowler-Beauchemin
Regehr-Schultz
Lydman-Brookbank/Clark

Hiller
Tarkki

You trade Bobby for Roy+Regehr+2012 1st
Not bad, actually. Perhaps even better if you switch Penner with Palmieri.

And Sbisa???!

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03-05-2012, 07:06 AM
  #60
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Kyle Palmieri ($1.025m) / Ryan Getzlaf ($5.325m) / Corey Perry ($5.325m)
Bobby Ryan ($5.100m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($3.500m) / Teemu Selanne ($2.500m)
Niklas Hagman ($2.000m) / Nick Bonino ($0.693m) / Andrew Cogliano ($2.390m)
Devante Smith-Pelly ($0.870m) / Brandon McMillan ($0.875m) / Matt Beleskey ($0.737m)
George Parros ($0.875m)

DEFENSEMEN
Cam Fowler ($1.400m) / Francois Beauchemin ($3.500m)
Lubomir Visnovsky ($5.600m) / Luca Sbisa ($2.175m)
Toni Lydman ($3.000m) / Justin Schultz ($1.000m)
Sheldon Brookbank ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonas Hiller ($4.500m) / Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers ($0.612m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $53,753,000; BONUSES: $807,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $10,547,000


Lets acquire Grabovski whos a UFA this summer. Re-sign Teemu and Hagman at lower salaries and keep the D almost as it is. With the twins Palmieri should have a good shot at translating some of his AHL-numbers into NHL.

Alternatively, re-sign Koivu and push him into the 3rd line with Bonino to 4th.

This should leave room to salary raises for Perry, Getz and Cam - while at the same time rebuilding the 2nd line steadily waiting for 2012 1st round pick, Etem, Holland etc to develop.

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03-05-2012, 08:00 AM
  #61
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Hagman-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-UFA-Palmieri
Cogliano-Koivu-DSP
Beleskey-Bonino-Parros
McMillan

Beauchemin-Fowler
Visnovsky-Sbisa
Schultz-Brookbank
UFA

Hiller
UFA

Holland, Etem, Vatanen, Clark, Tarkki

Selanne retires, Lydman and JDD are traded

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03-05-2012, 08:29 AM
  #62
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Grabovski won't sign 3.5 mln deal with us...if he chooses Free Agency he will be looking for something around 5 mln (likely 4.5), like Ruutu...forget about him...

Again, it's easy to write 2nd line UFA center...but give me some names...will be extremaly difficult to find and sign that kind of player...

Why someone will want JDD from us? He is Bob Murray problem right now...

Also Lydman > > >Brookbank as a Schultz/Vatanen partner...but IMO Brad Stuart would be perfect

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03-05-2012, 09:32 AM
  #63
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G Viktor Fasth will be offered a one way contract by Anaheim according to swedish media.

http://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey...-nhl-kontrakt/

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03-05-2012, 09:32 AM
  #64
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Let me re-word Pauls sentence then. If Cogs and Koivu are on the 2nd line expect a worse year than this one.
Eh im not so sure. The only time Bobby has anchored a line for more then a game and it worked was Ryan-Koivu-Sexton last year. Cogs is a better player then Sexton so there is a chance that it could work.

As for everyone saying trade Lydman, he serves a couple purposes next year. First he is insurance against injuries in our top 6. I would feel much better about Lydman in a top 4 role next year over Schultz or Brookbank. Also his and Visnovsky's salary cover the raises to Getzlaf, Perry, and Fowler. Figure 2 mill raises each, maybe a little less to Getz/Perry and a little more to Fowler. But it protects us against bargain bob screwing up and not having the money for them.

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03-05-2012, 09:36 AM
  #65
Lord Flashheart
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Originally Posted by Swep View Post
G Viktor Fasth will be offered a one way contract by Anaheim according to swedish media.

http://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey...-nhl-kontrakt/

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03-05-2012, 09:52 AM
  #66
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You really think that's a Cup contending team? Two rookies and Ryan on our 2nd line? You've basically got the same team, minus Blake and Selanne, with two rookies in their spot, and then adding Doan.
I was just joking about the Stanley Cup.

The key to this off-season is Koivu and Selanne. We need to know they're plans before we can commit to a plan

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03-05-2012, 10:27 AM
  #67
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Lydman on the 3rd pairing is doable, if they're inclined. Yes "3 million for third pairing" sounds like a lot. But with the cheap contracts of Sbisa, Fowler, and whatever rookie they decide to work in, then the defense as a whole actually isn't paid much. Also Lubo's only making 3. Because young guys are expected to play huge roles, it's a good idea to have a stronger 3rd pairing guy as a backup plan if they struggle. And like Paul said, Lydman's down season might be explained by the injury so he may bounce back.


All this speculation almost seems premature. I'm not convinced there will even be a 12-13 season. At least not a full one, but possibly not a whole season. Which brings me to a mini-topic I think is interesting.

Say there is a partial season. How will that affect the old guys near retirement? Selanne/Koivu/Blake/Vis/etc? Would they be more or less likely to join a partial season compared to a whole season? On one hand a partial season sounds nice since they get more rest and don't have to play a whole season. OTH, the time off might make them realize life without hockey isn't bad, and it might be hard to keep in shape. Also there's the chance they could try to do something like the NBA, cramming lots of games into a shortened season.


A number of people seem ready to move Ryan now. I was for it a couple years ago. But there is something I thought worth mentioning. Yes he's not quite giving a consistent effort. 1st line talent but doesn't show up for stretches. Well that's pretty much the standard 2nd liner. So it does not exclude him from a 2nd line role. Just something to think about. Although it might be nice to trade him and get two 2nd line pieces.

Back in his contract extension I was pitching trading him for Neal + something. Got some evil stares. Doesn't look so bad now. RW for LW, similar production. Cheaper contract, and would have gotten another asset.


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Old
03-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #68
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To do list if i were GM:

* keep the core, without any trades, unless Sexton, JDD are involved. Which i doubt since they have negative value with their contracts. If we trade them - nothing good is coming back anyway.

* resign Hags, Blake, Koivu (i believe will be back), Selanne (will retire though, imo)

* If Teemu retires, go for 2nd line center for about 3-4 m.

And wait what will we do under full year of BB.

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03-05-2012, 11:36 AM
  #69
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TBH I can't really believe so many people thinking not only Etem but one of the Russian centers would be top 6 NHL ready next season. To me, Etem looked very poor in his last TC, I can't see him going from below NHL standard to top 6, let alone top line NHL player in one season, even if he's having a good season in the WHL. And on any of the Russian centers, they haven't played one NHL game yet, and one is coming off a serious knee injury I believe yet they are suddenly going to be a #2 NHL center at 18? I doubt it, alot.

Palmieri is the most likely, but even then he hasn't looked great when up in the NHL so far.

Also Cogs+DSP should not be anywhere near that top 6, that's a lottery pick 2nd line there. Cogs+DSP hopefully are both on the third line next year, as they are playing very well in that role and are more suited to it then top 6 imo. If Teemu comes back I'd expect Koivu to be our 2nd line center for next year, as you know Teemu will want to play with Koivu.

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03-05-2012, 02:51 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
TBH I can't really believe so many people thinking not only Etem but one of the Russian centers would be top 6 NHL ready next season. To me, Etem looked very poor in his last TC, I can't see him going from below NHL standard to top 6, let alone top line NHL player in one season, even if he's having a good season in the WHL. And on any of the Russian centers, they haven't played one NHL game yet, and one is coming off a serious knee injury I believe yet they are suddenly going to be a #2 NHL center at 18? I doubt it, alot.

Palmieri is the most likely, but even then he hasn't looked great when up in the NHL so far.

Also Cogs+DSP should not be anywhere near that top 6, that's a lottery pick 2nd line there. Cogs+DSP hopefully are both on the third line next year, as they are playing very well in that role and are more suited to it then top 6 imo. If Teemu comes back I'd expect Koivu to be our 2nd line center for next year, as you know Teemu will want to play with Koivu.
If Koivu isn't back, then we are in trouble. There's no 2nd line centers in the market so either trade for one or use a rookie. Or hope that Bonino progresses to be a 2nd line center.

Also it's not impossible for unnamed, hyped Russian center to take over 2nd line center duties.

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03-05-2012, 02:54 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by JabbaJabba View Post
If Koivu isn't back, then we are in trouble. There's no 2nd line centers in the market so either trade for one or use a rookie. Or hope that Bonino progresses to be a 2nd line center.

Also it's not impossible for unnamed, hyped Russian center to take over 2nd line center duties.
Unless you're talking about the guy who is a consensus #2 overall, he's a Belarussian American.

But yeah, I don't see why not. And if he doesn't work out, it's time for Holland to step in. I mean. Everyone keeps saying it's a bad idea to have rookies in the lineup. But they're going to rookies when they make it no matter what. It's high time Holland and Palmieri got regular time. The "rookie roster spots is a road to disaster" mentality would mean Holland, Palmieri, and Etem never get NHL time.

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03-05-2012, 03:19 PM
  #72
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Teemu isn't a burden.

What people want is for this team to be built around a 1st and 2nd line, then have Teemu as a bonus on top of that.

I think that was Teemu's thinking when he contemplated retirmenent, etc.

I don't want this team built around needing Teemu, and it looks like whether he retires or not, then next year is going to have to be different.

I wonder what our PP would look like without Teemu... that idea does not have me too excited...

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03-05-2012, 03:30 PM
  #73
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How did Teemu go from a team leading wonder to a burden in a matter of a few poor games? Seriously. The guy IS leading our team in points. So he's fumbled a few pucks lately. What's the basis of comparison on this team? Who is setting these standards and expectations?
Teemu is not a burden but having our GM wait every year on a guy who might might not play before he makes big decisions is definitely a burden. Every year Murray does nothing at the draft or FA to our 2nd line because he believes he will return. The whole 2nd line is put on hold while Murray waits. Address 2nd line. If Selanne decides to come back, give him what we have left. Selanne is a pro, he knows we don't (shouldn't anyway) wait for him to make big decisions on the lineup. It's a mistake that Murray has made that has cost this team dearly, and IMO, one he will continue to do so.

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03-05-2012, 03:41 PM
  #74
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TBH I can't really believe so many people thinking not only Etem but one of the Russian centers would be top 6 NHL ready next season. To me, Etem looked very poor in his last TC, I can't see him going from below NHL standard to top 6, let alone top line NHL player in one season, even if he's having a good season in the WHL. And on any of the Russian centers, they haven't played one NHL game yet, and one is coming off a serious knee injury I believe yet they are suddenly going to be a #2 NHL center at 18? I doubt it, alot.

Palmieri is the most likely, but even then he hasn't looked great when up in the NHL so far.

Also Cogs+DSP should not be anywhere near that top 6, that's a lottery pick 2nd line there. Cogs+DSP hopefully are both on the third line next year, as they are playing very well in that role and are more suited to it then top 6 imo. If Teemu comes back I'd expect Koivu to be our 2nd line center for next year, as you know Teemu will want to play with Koivu.
Etem could easily progress over leaps and bounds in the off season to make the line-up. He may even have great success. Do you not remember a certain Dman named Fowler who not only made the team last year, but was arguably our best Dman in the playoffs last year? Don't sell Etem short, he is a prolific goal scorer who could easily make the NHL with some hard work.

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03-05-2012, 03:44 PM
  #75
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Etem could easily progress over leaps and bounds in the off season to make the line-up. He may even have great success. Do you not remember a certain Dman named Fowler who not only made the team last year, but was arguably our best Dman in the playoffs last year? Don't sell Etem short, he is a prolific goal scorer who could easily make the NHL with some hard work.
Truth. He breaks in the zone like Pavel Bure, he's sure to get a few just by making the goalie go "what the **** is happening? too fast. TOO FAST!"

Well...maybe not. But the general fear of injecting rookies into the lineup is...well...I'm not trying to offend anyone, but it's dumb. They have to make it eventually. You don't wait until they're a seasoned AHL veteran to decide, yeah he can handle it. After 5 years, our top prospect (who could make 15+ other teams handily) is finally ready for the bigs.

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