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Who is the "core"?

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Old
03-02-2012, 10:58 PM
  #51
Doug19
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
I think Brassard will be a 65 point center if this team ever turns into a contender. He makes the craftyess little skill plays that no one else on the roster makes. And he does it shift after shift. You can't honestly judge him with the ice time he got earlier in the season under Arniel....the guy hated Brass. He has shown compete, heart, skill, and a willingness to step up for his teammates for 2 months now, I want to keep him. The one month he looks like **** the next month he looks good analogy would be fair if he was still getting scratched and playing 4 th line minutes. He has been our best player since Arniel got canned. There is no argument about that.
Best player since Arniel was fired under what criteria? You want to say most improved, that's fine, but best player? debatable, even still if being bad at faceoffs, below average in the dzone and scoring at a 50 point pace is the best this franchise has, then I guess it really isn't a surprise that we suck so bad (it isn't).

I can easily judge Brassard by earlier in the season, he played last year and didn't play that great either, it has nothing to do with being scratched, it has everything to do with either his consistency or a poor attitude. He was scratched for a reason, maybe that reason could have been the fact he managed a whopping 3 points in the first month of the season, but lets never blame Brassard, lets just make excuses for him, because he's obviously such a coachable player.

Also I would like you to describe these skillful plays that he does that nobody else on the roster can do, I'd love to know about these, I must miss them. If you count completing a pass cross ice in the offensive zone, then I say congrats to Brassard, welcome to NHL 101, where pretty much every team has many players that can make cross ice passes. Maybe your talking about creative plays that he attempts but never successful completes?

The only way this team will ever be some sort of contender is if players like him actually start producing consistently rather than 3 months out of the season. Until then, which I find it very unlikely this guy is ever a 65 point center, this team is in trouble if he is the #1 center. #2 he might be serviceable, but I'd rather go with a more consistent gritty player on the 2nd line than Brassard who never seems to work without Nash by his side. He worked with Chimera for 30 games, but we are a long way past that time period.

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03-03-2012, 01:50 AM
  #52
AlienLanes82
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Nash
Johansen
Brassard
Methot

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03-03-2012, 03:18 AM
  #53
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The more I think about it the more I'm believe we should trade Brass this offseason if Nash goes. I love the way Brass has been playing lately, but he's only been able to play that way on Nash's line. I'm nervous that Brass will have raised his value with the solid end to the season he's having, we'll trade Nash in the offseason, and Brass will go back to being unable to produce next season.

Perhaps that's just pessimistic, but we haven't seen Brassard do much without Nash out there drawing defenders and creating space for him.

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03-03-2012, 10:52 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
The Cannon, Stinger, Leo Welsh, Greg Murray
QFT

The problem coming up with a player-centered answer is that NONE of our young guys has really stepped up to prove themselves. (Ok, maybe Brass as of late, but how many seasons has he only shown stretches of core-ness, and then disappeared?) Atkinson and Moore could be the next spectacular flameouts. We just don't know.

Yeah, I'm not a "young player fanboy." Give me a core of veterans anyday. So with that in mind, here is JF's Core for the next two years:

Nash, Wiz, RJ, Old Man Prospal, JJ, Methot (seriously), and the veteran goalie we bring in.

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03-03-2012, 11:40 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
Best player since Arniel was fired under what criteria? You want to say most improved, that's fine, but best player? debatable, even still if being bad at faceoffs, below average in the dzone and scoring at a 50 point pace is the best this franchise has, then I guess it really isn't a surprise that we suck so bad (it isn't).

I can easily judge Brassard by earlier in the season, he played last year and didn't play that great either, it has nothing to do with being scratched, it has everything to do with either his consistency or a poor attitude. He was scratched for a reason, maybe that reason could have been the fact he managed a whopping 3 points in the first month of the season, but lets never blame Brassard, lets just make excuses for him, because he's obviously such a coachable player.

Also I would like you to describe these skillful plays that he does that nobody else on the roster can do, I'd love to know about these, I must miss them. If you count completing a pass cross ice in the offensive zone, then I say congrats to Brassard, welcome to NHL 101, where pretty much every team has many players that can make cross ice passes. Maybe your talking about creative plays that he attempts but never successful completes?

The only way this team will ever be some sort of contender is if players like him actually start producing consistently rather than 3 months out of the season. Until then, which I find it very unlikely this guy is ever a 65 point center, this team is in trouble if he is the #1 center. #2 he might be serviceable, but I'd rather go with a more consistent gritty player on the 2nd line than Brassard who never seems to work without Nash by his side. He worked with Chimera for 30 games, but we are a long way past that time period.
He played fine last year. He improved his point total to 47, not much but he is improving. He has been our best player on most nights. As for skill plays, I'll start pointing them out in the GDTs. I also never see him lose the puck anymore, that is what I really like about his game. He has the best if not one of the best abilities on the team to keep control of the puck going through traffic. He also doesn't try and do something he can't, like go through 3 dmen by himself. He'll either dump and go hit the guy or pull up and hit the trailer. Something no one on this team does enough. If you are saying that most NHL teams do this, you are correct. But why get rid of the guy who when he has the puck on his stick, everyone knows something good will happen? His teammates look for him to carry the puck into the zone bc he's the best at it on the team. You are also underrating his d zone play lately. He's been great downlow and helped out his d to creat rushes. See Brassard OT winner vs ducks. Stole the puck from Fowler took it down and won the game. He has been better 5v5 on d also.

The main things why I think we need to keep him is his ability to create scoring chances 5v5. You may think the pull up and stop is not much but no one really does it on this team and actually has the ability to put the puck on his winger's stick. He oozes with confidence and I think that is the biggest thing you are discounting. I belive he has refound where he needs to be to continue to develop. He's had a rough few years but now he has finally found his game. Let's not just give him away to any team for him to make us look bad when he lights it up on a good team. It's okay to keep your draft picks. Brassard has been around for almost 260 games now, he needs to be apart of what we are making. Hes finally looks like he gets it. The guy doesnt take shifts off even when we are getting smoked, i think thats something we need to keep. Especially if we want to stop the "Columbus can't draft or develop BS".


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03-03-2012, 12:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
QFT

The problem coming up with a player-centered answer is that NONE of our young guys has really stepped up to prove themselves. (Ok, maybe Brass as of late, but how many seasons has he only shown stretches of core-ness, and then disappeared?) Atkinson and Moore could be the next spectacular flameouts. We just don't know.

Yeah, I'm not a "young player fanboy." Give me a core of veterans anyday. So with that in mind, here is JF's Core for the next two years:

Nash, Wiz, RJ, Old Man Prospal, JJ, Methot (seriously), and the veteran goalie we bring in.
Come on Hitch, go back to coaching your Blues...

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03-03-2012, 01:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
He played fine last year. He improved his point total to 47, not much but he is improving. He has been our best player on most nights. As for skill plays, I'll start pointing them out in the GDTs. I also never see him lose the puck anymore, that is what I really like about his game. He has the best if not one of the best abilities on the team to keep control of the puck going through traffic. He also doesn't try and do something he can't, like go through 3 dmen by himself. He'll either dump and go hit the guy or pull up and hit the trailer. Something no one on this team does enough. If you are saying that most NHL teams do this, you are correct. But why get rid of the guy who when he has the puck on his stick, everyone knows something good will happen? His teammates look for him to carry the puck into the zone bc he's the best at it on the team. You are also underrating his d zone play lately. He's been great downlow and helped out his d to creat rushes. See Brassard OT winner vs ducks. Stole the puck from Fowler took it down and won the game. He has been better 5v5 on d also.

The main things why I think we need to keep him is his ability to create scoring chances 5v5. You may think the pull up and stop is not much but no one really does it on this team and actually has the ability to put the puck on his winger's stick. He oozes with confidence and I think that is the biggest thing you are discounting. I belive he has refound where he needs to be to continue to develop. He's had a rough few years but now he has finally found his game. Let's not just give him away to any team for him to make us look bad when he lights it up on a good team. It's okay to keep your draft picks. Brassard has been around for almost 260 games now, he needs to be apart of what we are making. Hes finally looks like he gets it. The guy doesnt take shifts off even when we are getting smoked, i think thats something we need to keep. Especially if we want to stop the "Columbus can't draft or develop BS".
I don't disagree with anything you are saying about him, but he still has big time question marks on his game, his coach-ability and possibly attitude (that's speculation around the fact his teammates never try to stick up for him). I stand by my feelings that if we get a good center in a trade involving Nash, Brassard has to go to because he hasn't gelled with anyone but Nash, and he has been very inconsistent for who he plays for and when he plays.

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03-03-2012, 03:10 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I don't disagree with anything you are saying about him, but he still has big time question marks on his game, his coach-ability and possibly attitude (that's speculation around the fact his teammates never try to stick up for him). I stand by my feelings that if we get a good center in a trade involving Nash, Brassard has to go to because he hasn't gelled with anyone but Nash, and he has been very inconsistent for who he plays for and when he plays.
I dont think he has an attitude problem. Maybe Im biased and cant see it but his teammates seem to like him. Methot Umby Mase Johan Moore etc, atleast what I've gathered through twitter and him around them after a win. Doesnt tell the whole story for sure but hey, I have no real reason to believe his teammates hate him. The team has been coming in to help him lately and other teammates overall. Honestly, his fights have been started by himself from being pissed off that they are getting whooped. I love that, very few players do that on this team. Richards talked about playing even when we are going to lose, Brassard and very few others have responded.

We see it differently and thats perfectly alright. I think Brassard could play with anyone but it makes the most sense to put him on a line with a proven scorer. We dont have anyone else besides Nash. We're going to have to make a new one in either Yakupov, Atkinson, or whoever we get back from the trade. But hey thats a whole different subject.

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03-03-2012, 06:39 PM
  #59
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Some part of the return on the Nash trade, or else Nash... JJ and Wiz, Toots, Brass and RJ.

The Umberger affair is a mystery. Until this year, he was certainly part of what I'd hoped to be the core. Hopefully the cliff he fell off of is only a season high. I imagine he comes back next year better than this year, and will be a valuable core member. Boy do I hope I'm right.

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03-03-2012, 06:57 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
Some part of the return on the Nash trade, or else Nash... JJ and Wiz, Toots, Brass and RJ.

The Umberger affair is a mystery. Until this year, he was certainly part of what I'd hoped to be the core. Hopefully the cliff he fell off of is only a season high. I imagine he comes back next year better than this year, and will be a valuable core member. Boy do I hope I'm right.
Another contract that was ill considered.. I like RJ but he's not worth anything close to 4.6 million a year, hell, Zetterburg is making 6! Ridiculous signing.

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03-03-2012, 07:43 PM
  #61
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I've never been an RJ fan. I really wish Philly had taken him back in the Carter trade last summer. Please move him if we can. With that contract and this disasterous season, probably not.

I'd like to see Nash, Tyutin, Nikitin, Jack, Moore, DMac, Dorsett, and Sanford back.

Brass is a puzzle. We need centers, but it depends on which Brass shows up. If we keep Nash, keep Brass.

In the minority, I know, but I'd move Johansen.
Others to move if you can: Mason, Boll, RJ. I never want to see A Johnson again.

No feeling one way or the other about Methot, Gillies, Boyce.

I love VP as much as the next fan, but criminy is Vinny slooooooowww! It's getting harder and harder to watch him in any sort of situation where speed is required.

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03-03-2012, 09:53 PM
  #62
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Another contract that was ill considered.. I like RJ but he's not worth anything close to 4.6 million a year, hell, Zetterburg is making 6! Ridiculous signing.
I was glad he got a new contract, though it does seem rich. I'm not going to call it ridiculous though. Prior to this year, he was a big part of the team's intangibles. Soccer!

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03-03-2012, 09:59 PM
  #63
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I've never been an RJ fan. I really wish Philly had taken him back in the Carter trade last summer. Please move him if we can. With that contract and this disasterous season, probably not.

I'd like to see Nash, Tyutin, Nikitin, Jack, Moore, DMac, Dorsett, and Sanford back.

Brass is a puzzle. We need centers, but it depends on which Brass shows up. If we keep Nash, keep Brass.

In the minority, I know, but I'd move Johansen.
Others to move if you can: Mason, Boll, RJ. I never want to see A Johnson again.

No feeling one way or the other about Methot, Gillies, Boyce.

I love VP as much as the next fan, but criminy is Vinny slooooooowww! It's getting harder and harder to watch him in any sort of situation where speed is required.
Never? I always liked him prior to this season and wished more guys had his attitude. This year I'm pretty surprised by what's happened to him.

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03-04-2012, 12:06 AM
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I've had a complete irrational hatred of Umberger since he failed to clear a puck against New Jersey a few years back that cost us the game. Since then fans on these forums have made me dislike him even more with the constant praises he gets because of some sort of intangibles he apparently has. Regardless, Umberger wasn't to overpaid for what he brought on the ice at around 60 points, now it looks like the worst contract left on this roster.

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03-04-2012, 10:02 AM
  #65
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Never? I always liked him prior to this season and wished more guys had his attitude. This year I'm pretty surprised by what's happened to him.
Yep, NEVER. At the height of his "heart and soul" days last year I won a nice signed, framed photo of Umberger from the Foundation. I gave it back.

True story.

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03-04-2012, 10:09 AM
  #66
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In the minority, I know, but I'd move Johansen.
I'm with you here, simply because we need another defenseman or a goalie the same caliber as Johansen. RyJo isn't very useful on a team with no goaltending or defense.

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03-04-2012, 01:34 PM
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Come on Hitch, go back to coaching your Blues...
So you're saying you don't want to be a winner?

-->> You and Matthew


Jf

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03-05-2012, 04:19 PM
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for all wanting to move brassard, who do you think will be our top 2 centers? letestu and johansen (whos done nothing)? because were certainly not going to attract any good free agents

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03-05-2012, 04:38 PM
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for all wanting to move brassard, who do you think will be our top 2 centers? letestu and johansen (whos done nothing)? because were certainly not going to attract any good free agents
Who's going to be on our first line after we move Nash? Prospal Brass and RJ? We're looking pretty pathetic in our forward group next season whether we move Brass or not.

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03-05-2012, 04:58 PM
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Seriously, I don't want to think about enduring a rebuild. Can't imagine not getting to see Nash night in and night out. I know he has his detractors, but I can't imagine watching the CBJ with what's left if he goes.

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03-05-2012, 04:59 PM
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Who's going to be on our first line after we move Nash? Prospal Brass and RJ? We're looking pretty pathetic in our forward group next season whether we move Brass or not.
If we trade Nash, I'd hope the return would include a 1st line winger & there is always a #1 draft choice who is purported to be NHL ready.

If we don't get a winger for Nash and our #1 is not draft ready we better have a goalie tandem the equivalent of Martin Brodeur & Patrick Roy

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03-05-2012, 06:05 PM
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for all wanting to move brassard, who do you think will be our top 2 centers? letestu and johansen (whos done nothing)? because were certainly not going to attract any good free agents
I don't want to move Brass but if he were, I could see a player like Lars Eller coming back. Top 6 guy with a little more edge and similar skill set to Brass (maybe not as good with the puck on his stick).

The top 6 is likely to be addressed by the trade of Nash.

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03-05-2012, 06:45 PM
  #73
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I don't want to move Brass but if he were, I could see a player like Lars Eller coming back. Top 6 guy with a little more edge and similar skill set to Brass (maybe not as good with the puck on his stick).

The top 6 had better be addressed by the trade of Nash.
Fixed?

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03-05-2012, 08:07 PM
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Fixed?
Works for me....

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