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Injury Talk 4.0: Markov practicing with the team, now with contact

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Old
03-05-2012, 10:11 PM
  #951
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If (and thats a big if) Markov returns to his old for. He's the best player on this team bar none. There was a time that we couldn't win without him.
Yeah, remember those old days...

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03-05-2012, 10:14 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Yeah, remember those old days...
i sure do... they were the days where many posters were still drunk on the Gainey kool-aid...

team couldn't win a game without the stud dman already in place when Gainey took over, and yet somehow the "success" of Gainey's impact on the team was supposed to be undeniable.

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Old
03-05-2012, 10:16 PM
  #953
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that says more about the team rather than markov.
Detroit must really suck to get destroyed by us without Lidstrom

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03-05-2012, 10:25 PM
  #954
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that says more about the team rather than markov.
Yeah well it's cause you know... Markov is kind of like... part of the team?

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03-05-2012, 10:32 PM
  #955
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Id love to see how Markov and DD complement one another on the PP.

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03-05-2012, 10:38 PM
  #956
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bottom line you take the best player off any team and they will be worse than they are with him.

Some will fall farther than others, but every team will falter some if you give their MVP a long term injury.

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03-05-2012, 10:46 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Roy33Clutch View Post
Id love to see how Markov and DD complement one another on the PP.
LOOOL DD sucks in the PP.

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Old
03-05-2012, 10:47 PM
  #958
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LG is so blinded by his ideology that he doesn't give a **** how the organization treats their best and longest tenured player.

Nothing shocks me about what you post anymore. I can easily reduce every single post of yours down to your warped ideology.

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03-05-2012, 10:49 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
LG is so blinded by his ideology that he doesn't give a **** how the organization treats their best and longest tenured player.

Nothing shocks me about what you post anymore. I can easily reduce every single post of yours down to your warped ideology.
This has nothing to do with ideology... We are already in last place.

And no, I couldn't care less if he's our longest tenured player. I care about winning a cup. That's it. Playing him does not help us to achieve this. It potentially hurts us. So... don't do it.

Markov can play late in the season and at the World Championships. The sky is not going to fall if we keep him out and we're not sending him to Siberia. Please spare me the sanctimony.


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Old
03-05-2012, 10:52 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
bottom line you take the best player off any team and they will be worse than they are with him.

Some will fall farther than others, but every team will falter some if you give their MVP a long term injury.
Bruins won the cup with their best forward on the LTIR.

Penguins remained a playoff team, and are 6th overall (league) with their best player out.

Rangers are top team in the league despite missing their best Dman for almost 1/2 the season


bottom line is that good teams, with good management, can deal with injuries, even major injuries.

mediocre teams with crappy management can't.

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Old
03-05-2012, 10:59 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
This has nothing to do with ideology... We are already in last place.

And no, I couldn't care less if he's our longest tenured player. I care about winning a cup. That's it. Markov can play late in the season and at the World Championships. The sky is not going to fall if we keep him out and we're not sending him to Siberia.
its sad when fans get so emotionally attached to the team or individual players that they lose sight of the fundamental reality... this is a business. Pure and simple.

"longest tenured"

there is no such thing as "loyalty". Best a team/GM can do is treat players honestly (something the habs have notoriously not done) and with respect (again, a weakness for this management team). Otherwise, it is rightfully-so a "what have you done for me lately/what will you likely do for me soon" business.

Good teams operate with a firm grip on that, and navigate the business of managing assets in a way that allows the team to improve &/or compete at a high level.

our management team has failed miserably at this, but now were supposed to support them for showing "loyalty" to a long-tenured vet???

where was the "loyalty" to Gorges last summer? nope, none there... take a 1-year deal buddy, then we'll talk".

oh shoot, he was as good as the hfboards posters "thought he was"... now we gotta pay him a bigger cap premium b/c we didn't show enough foresight, or any "loyalty", when we had a chance...


unbelievable how narrow the blinders are on some posters... thank god for the ignore function!!!

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:07 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
its sad when fans get so emotionally attached to the team or individual players that they lose sight of the fundamental reality... this is a business. Pure and simple.

"longest tenured"

there is no such thing as "loyalty". Best a team/GM can do is treat players honestly (something the habs have notoriously not done) and with respect (again, a weakness for this management team). Otherwise, it is rightfully-so a "what have you done for me lately/what will you likely do for me soon" business.

Good teams operate with a firm grip on that, and navigate the business of managing assets in a way that allows the team to improve &/or compete at a high level.

our management team has failed miserably at this, but now were supposed to support them for showing "loyalty" to a long-tenured vet???

where was the "loyalty" to Gorges last summer? nope, none there... take a 1-year deal buddy, then we'll talk".

oh shoot, he was as good as the hfboards posters "thought he was"... now we gotta pay him a bigger cap premium b/c we didn't show enough foresight, or any "loyalty", when we had a chance...


unbelievable how narrow the blinders are on some posters... thank god for the ignore function!!!
It shocks me how these guys can sit here and actually accuse me of being narrow minded and then turn around with posts like that.

Seriously.. who gives a crap about Markov's tenure? The guy hasn't played for us in two freaking years and we've continuously planned around the assumption that he'd be here. It's completely screwed up this team and now it's the end of the world if we don't play him? Give me a break man. When are these guys going to understand that the team is bigger than the individual? Markov can play in the Worlds. We can assess him there... but even if we couldn't I don't give a crap.

This is a wasted year. Getting a top pick is far more important to the future of this team than Markov is. I know it's hard for folks like Budda (who perpetually overrate this team) to understand but there's absolutely no reason to bring this guy back right now.

The silliness in this thread is unreal. I've heard guys argue that it makes no difference if we get lower picks vs. a top 3. I've heard guys put Markov's feelings above the well being of the team. And I've heard guys try to change the topic to ideology...

Bottom line is that a top pick would greatly benefit this team. We can't ignore this. With the lost season we've had coming out of this year without a top five pick would be absolutely pointless.

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:13 PM
  #963
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You guys act if he is going to pick the team up on his back and carry us to victory every night. Relax, he has been out of it for fricken ages, whatever impact he has will be minimal. The coach will probably keep his minutes really low initially to make sure the knee is good. I don't expect him to break 15 minutes in the first 5 games or so. After that he will play more but I doubt this team is going to turn it all around because of him, or atleast I hope so lol

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:19 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You guys act if he is going to pick the team up on his back and carry us to victory every night. Relax, he has been out of it for fricken ages, whatever impact he has will be minimal. The coach will probably keep his minutes really low initially to make sure the knee is good. I don't expect him to break 15 minutes in the first 5 games or so. After that he will play more but I doubt this team is going to turn it all around because of him, or atleast I hope so lol
I don't expect us to "turn it around" and make the playoffs. But playing him against Carolina, the Isles, Oilers etc... (all clubs who we're scheduled to face) could mean the difference between a top 3 and falling out of the top five.

It's just not worth doing.

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:27 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Yes, I am laughing at your post.

There's no point to be made there. We all know that he won't turn us into playoff contenders...

It doesn't matter. If you're climbing in the standings it's a losing proposition for us. Lottery wins can go either way... but no matter what, climbing in the standings now hurts us.

As for Markov, bring him back on the last two or three games of the season but not now. It makes zero sense to do bring him back right now.

And unfortunately, that's exactly why PG will do it. We've got an idiot GM and he'll no doubt make the wrong choice here. Bringing Markov in could very easily get us wins against the very teams that we're behind in the standings and push us up. And for what? So Markov can feel better? Makes no sense to do it.
LG and guys, I think what we're looking for here is a compromise. I buy what LG is saying, but there is a smart way to win win here.

Let's look at the needs:

1. Habs must lose as many games as possible from here on in to get that top three pick. I hate writing that but it's true.

2. We need in my opinion a min. 10 game evaluation of Marky this year, to see if the knee holds up for the 2-3 week grind of practice and play. 3 games won't cut it.

3. In my opinion, I don't see Marky being very effective his first 5 games back, if not more. But he might be effective after that, and if he plays right now, that means he might make a significant difference our last ten games. Dangerous for our high pick hopes.

With the above, I suggest Marky not play on the west swing for sure, thus improving our chances of losing all three games. That puts us in a pretty bad (Good) spot in a week.

Then rest Marky 2 more games, and start him with ten to go. We get the evaluation we need, and it's doubtful Marky helps us win in his first 5 games, and at worst he helps us win say 4 of five to finish.

The three losses on the west swing right now should help to make up for any mini streak that last 5 games, in terms of our finishing spot.

Conclusion: Start Marky with 10 games left.

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03-05-2012, 11:30 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
LG and guys, I think what we're looking for here is a compromise. I buy what LG is saying, but there is a smart way to win win here.

Let's look at the needs:

1. Habs must lose as many games as possible from here on in to get that top three pick. I hate writing that but it's true.

2. We need in my opinion a min. 10 game evaluation of Marky this year, to see if the knee holds up for the 2-3 week grind of practice and play. 3 games won't cut it.

3. In my opinion, I don't see Marky being very effective his first 5 games back, if not more. But he might be effective after that, and if he plays right now, that means he might make a significant difference our last ten games. Dangerous for our high pick hopes.

With the above, I suggest Marky not play on the west swing for sure, thus improving our chances of losing all three games. That puts us in a pretty bad (Good) spot in a week.

Then rest Marky 2 more games, and start him with ten to go. We get the evaluation we need, and it's doubtful Marky helps us win in his first 5 games, and at worst he helps us win say 4 of five to finish.

The three losses on the west swing right now should help to make up for any mini streak that last 5 games, in terms of our finishing spot.

Conclusion: Start Marky with 10 games left.
Couldn't the World Championships accomplish the same thing? Give him 5 games here and then the Worlds.

Anyways it's all semantics. The guy is going to come back as soon as he can so PG can try to save face.

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:30 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It shocks me how these guys can sit here and actually accuse me of being narrow minded and then turn around with posts like that.

Seriously.. who gives a crap about Markov's tenure? The guy hasn't played for us in two freaking years and we've continuously planned around the assumption that he'd be here. It's completely screwed up this team and now it's the end of the world if we don't play him? Give me a break man. When are these guys going to understand that the team is bigger than the individual? Markov can play in the Worlds. We can assess him there... but even if we couldn't I don't give a crap.

This is a wasted year. Getting a top pick is far more important to the future of this team than Markov is. I know it's hard for folks like Budda (who perpetually overrate this team) to understand but there's absolutely no reason to bring this guy back right now.

The silliness in this thread is unreal. I've heard guys argue that it makes no difference if we get lower picks vs. a top 3. I've heard guys put Markov's feelings above the well being of the team. And I've heard guys try to change the topic to ideology...

Bottom line is that a top pick would greatly benefit this team. We can't ignore this. With the lost season we've had coming out of this year without a top five pick would be absolutely pointless.
I can see both sides but there is definitely an argument for shutting Markov down this year. I don't like the idea of his coming into the intensity of March hockey when he's in pre-season conditioning and timing. The team isn't 2 points out of the PO's and in need of his immediate help, the season is over and they need him down the road.

In fact the Canadiens may wish to manage Markov as a veteran /stabilizing 2nd pairing guy that he may 3-4 years down the road because that's when he'll be needed - when the team starts becoming competitive again. I personally think Markov's best days are in the rear view mirror and he has to be managed differently (as do expectations).

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:36 PM
  #968
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I don't expect us to "turn it around" and make the playoffs. But playing him against Carolina, the Isles, Oilers etc... (all clubs who we're scheduled to face) could mean the difference between a top 3 and falling out of the top five.

It's just not worth doing.
The guy has not played in a long time. If he is ready to play, you let him play. You don't sit a player like that just to tank.

Why don't we just scratch Cole and Patches in favor call ups? I am not serious of course, but it amounts to the same thing. And you don't do that. In a sense, I would be more in favor of something like that....resting roster players who have played all year. Maybe give Gorges a holiday.

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03-05-2012, 11:41 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Bruins won the cup with their best forward on the LTIR.
Knew he was gone and used the LTIR space to replace him.

Also Savard was never as important as Chara or Thomas.

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Penguins remained a playoff team, and are 6th overall (league) with their best player out.
Still have fallen somewhat, with Crosby healthy are probably fighting for first

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Rangers are top team in the league despite missing their best Dman for almost 1/2 the season
Take away the team MVP... who is New York's MVP? Lundqvist not Staal. They are nowhere without Henrik.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
bottom line is that good teams, with good management, can deal with injuries, even major injuries.

mediocre teams with crappy management can't.

"Some will fall farther than others, but every team will falter some if you give their MVP a long term injury."

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03-05-2012, 11:44 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You guys act if he is going to pick the team up on his back and carry us to victory every night. Relax, he has been out of it for fricken ages, whatever impact he has will be minimal. The coach will probably keep his minutes really low initially to make sure the knee is good. I don't expect him to break 15 minutes in the first 5 games or so. After that he will play more but I doubt this team is going to turn it all around because of him, or atleast I hope so lol
Hes gonna have massive rust.

This is more about knowing he can take a hit than how well he plays.

He wont be close to the player he was without time and that will take a full camp plus some games next year IMO.

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03-05-2012, 11:49 PM
  #971
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LOOOL DD sucks in the PP.
I feel that markov might make him more useful.

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03-05-2012, 11:50 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Bruins won the cup with their best forward on the LTIR.

Penguins remained a playoff team, and are 6th overall (league) with their best player out.

Rangers are top team in the league despite missing their best Dman for almost 1/2 the season


bottom line is that good teams, with good management, can deal with injuries, even major injuries.

mediocre teams with crappy management can't.
What about Pittsburgh that struggled without Gonchar? Yup, that's the same year they won the cup after he returned. And we're also talking about the team that arguably had the best two players in the NHL on their roster, not to mention multiple other top 5-10picks.

The Bruins were already prepared for the loss of Savard. It wasn't a new injury that caught them by surprise. Don't get me wrong, neither was Markov, and management should have planned around it. That was their biggest mistake, not getting the necessary depth. Outside that though, they were healthy. We never had the luxury of just playing without Markov, there's always been other key injuries too.

As for the NYR, as painful as it is to say, McDonagh has been a stud. Had we not made that mistake, we're probably not last today. Not just him, but Del Zotto and Girardi have been stellar, and let's not forget that Lundqvist is having a career year.
And again, outside him, they've been healthy all season.


As I said, we never went through a season with just Markov out. We usually had to deal with him out on top of Gionta, O'Byrne, Spacek, Cammy, AK, Gomez, Gorges, MaxPac, and more, during different seasons.
This year was the first one that we actually weren't missing as many key guys, and improved our depth. We went through a horrible stretch at the beginning of the year, just like the Sharks have only won 2 of their last 10, and the Bruins are barely playing for .500 since 2012. Then we seemingly panicked and opted to fire the coach despite us going 12-7-5 in the following 24 games.

You say mediocre teams can't deal with injuries, hinting that we haven't, but we absolutely did. You don't want to admit it, or see it, because you just don't like the shape up of this team.

Teams like Pittsburgh have done a great job this year, with guys like Letang, Kennedy, Staal, Michalek, missing about 20ish games, and obviously Crosby only being there for 8. But that's where coaching factors in. Just like Martin had steered the ship back on the right track after a shaky start. But no, over here, the coach was horrible because he looks like the Penguin from Batman, who's actually evil. His style is boring, which apparently is a synonym for bad.
But the question remains, where would they be if they did have Crosby? and if they didn't suffer as many injuries? Top of the conference? Well, we finished 6th last year without ever being in jeopardy of missing the POs, this without Markov and Gorges, with Cammy and Spacek missing some time, with MaxPac and DD only joining halfway through. So, if it's true for Pittsburgh, why can't it be true for us? Well, it's simple really. Because you don't like the team that was assembled. Doesn't mean it's actually a bad or mediocre one, you just don't believe in it even though there's a lot of signs that point towards optimism. Just like people simply can't credit Martin for the obvious good job he did here.

In any event, the team is no longer the same without Cammy and AK.


Last edited by Kriss E: 03-05-2012 at 11:56 PM.
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Old
03-06-2012, 12:01 AM
  #973
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lol no one noticed how he doesn't give a flying bruin about playing with Emelin?!
"Wha?! It's not important who's your partner." LMAO!

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03-06-2012, 12:03 AM
  #974
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Lundqvist is the Rangers MVP. I'm not saying they aren't a good team without him but like taking away Thomas from the Bruins, Rinne from the Preds of Price from us, and everything suddenly becomes a lot less comfortable. They were built with full confidence in their goalie it's no coincidence he's having an Hart-worthy season the year the Rangers are arguable the best team in the league.

But if they continue their run into the playoffs, they better make sure they give Gainey some time with the cup. Where would they be without McDonagh and the Gomez cap space that let them sign Gaborik?

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lol no one noticed how he doesn't give a flying bruin about playing with Emelin?!
"Wha?! It's not important who's your partner." LMAO!
Markov said that? His interviews are always great, got to love his dry humor. I'm pretty sure he's just implying he doesn't need another Russian next to him to feel comfortable.

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03-06-2012, 12:09 AM
  #975
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lol no one noticed how he doesn't give a flying bruin about playing with Emelin?!
"Wha?! It's not important who's your partner." LMAO!
I think what Markov was surprised because he probably hasn't even thought about that yet. This is his first contact practice, I think what he said is pretty spot on. What can he say about Emelin? He passes the puck well in practice?

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