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Old
02-14-2012, 11:33 AM
  #201
PokeCheck101
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QUOTE=IDC;44110463]You don't agree with paid coaching at Bantam level??? What about Peewee AA?? That's what Lloydminster Peewee AA's did this year. (Center Four Hockey League).
Isn't that outrageous?.[/QUOTE]

Actually from what I've heard Lloyd parents are happy. 3-4 practices/week (skill based), one on one with each kid and if I'm not mistaken the coach is completely arms length from any family.... They're also arguably one of the best team in AB and if they were competing in SK provincials they would likey take it, although Yorkton would likely give them a good game. Lloyd's dominated Centre 4 at pee wee this year. Balanced. I also had the opportunity to see them play a few times at their host tourney. They were polished and well put together.

I don't think the compensation was over the top either... Maybe someone has heard otherwise.

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02-14-2012, 06:43 PM
  #202
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Have been following and enjoying the wide-ranging discussion from the last week and i thought i'd add my 2 cents.

AA vs AAA
The comments by TooLate and RinkRat pretty much sum up my feelings on the matter, and i really can't improve upon them. I would like to expand upon RR's comment on the relative effectiveness of our AA system with some numbers. About a year or so ago i did a roster analysis of all the WHL clubs and if my memory serves me correctly, Saskatchewan raised kids constituted approximately 18% of the total players. Not bad when you consider we have 10.25% of the population of Western Canada. To be fair, Alberta also exceeded its per capita expectations, albeit by a fairly modest couple of percentage points. We also absolutely crushed Manitoba, which also has a AAA system (at least in Winnipeg). Looking at the last three bantam drafts is also illuminating. With our population we should be averaging 2.2 players per round. Here are the Saskatchewan results for the first 3 rounds in each year:

2009
1st Round - 5 players
2nd Round - 7 players
3rd Round - 1 player
2010
1st Round - 4 players
2nd Round - 5 players
3rd Round - 3 players
2011
1st Round - 6 players
2nd Round - 8 players
3rd Round - 5 players

Not too shabby, eh? So unless we are attributing this success to our drinking water, it suggests we have a system that allows the maximum amount of players to play at a high level, have fun, and yet still produces more than our fair share of elite players. All this begs the question, why would we abandon a system that completely outclasses Manitoba's and more than holds its own against Alberta? For me, the inescapable conclusion is that Kelly Mclintock wants us to do better at Westerns. Seems like a high price to satisfy one man's ego.

Saskatoon
I've been following the GSHL for a number of years and i don't see the competitiveness issue that would require a reduction in teams. Two years ago the Frosbite won Provincials and last year the Maniacs acquitted themselves quite well against a stacked PA squad. This year's crop was a little thinner, but it's not like they've been outclassed (eg., Maniacs vs Prairie Storm in the PA tourney final).

In fact, the demographic trends suggest the opposite. The last census has Saskatoon population at 222,000. That's an average pool of 37,000 per team to draw from (eg., roughly the population of Moose Jaw or PA). Excluding Regina and Saskatoon, there are 13 AA clubs drawing from a population of 600,000, or an average 46,000 per team. However, Saskatoon's growth rate is expected to remain strong and hit 250,000 within a small number of years. Cut down to 4 teams, Saskatoon clubs would each be drawing from 62,000 people and you'd soon have other centers clamoring for Saskatoon to add clubs to address the competitive imbalance.

Paid Coaching
I'm a little agnostic on this one. At first blush, the idea of paid coaching at this level just seemed wrong. But reading Poke's thoughts on the matter, i can see where an argument can be made for (modestly) paid coaching. If it is done right, above board, and with the proper oversight, perhaps it might make make coaches more accountable. Let's face it, while it may not be rampant, there are enough examples of cronyism and the "old boy's network" at work for it to be at least considered. In my opinion, though, any such system would require some sort of independent evaluation (preferably independent of the local executive because, frankly, in too many cases they seem a little too friendly with the coaching staff) of the coaching. This could help ensure that, as Poke mentioned, basic core skills are being taught, and taught correctly. And it might ensure that kids are getting, at worst, a minimum of 15 minutes of playing time per game. If a coach can't do the above, you have to ask why he is coaching in the first place.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:51 PM
  #203
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"They're also arguably one of the best team in AB and if they were competing in SK provincials they would likey take it, although Yorkton would likely give them a good game. "

Hey Poke, have you seen the Yorkton club play? Just wondering if we're going to see a bantam champion in 2 years.

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02-15-2012, 12:23 PM
  #204
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Dickie.. No haven't seen the Yorkton squad play but I've spoken to a few folks who have and they are well coached, polished.... They're coached by Ed Zawatsky who I believe has coached the SJHL Terriers..... Looking at the South Sask League right now they are a perfect 20 and 0 with a ridiculous goals per game avg of almost 11... They've got 8 of top 10 in scoring. Granted this is only a 6 team league at pee wee AA but they certainly have an argument for a bantam provincial run... This is the same team that lost the A final event this year to Langley in the prestigious Regina Pee Wee Classic tourn... A good game from what I heard and close.

Right now they are over at the Quebec Int'l Pee Wee tourn. I checked the web site and they won their first game 3-2 over Drummondville team.

BTW, enjoyed your comments on the AAA vs AA issue. I've always been proud of SK #'s at the drafts and we'll continue to show well. I do also agree that we place to much significance on Westerns... Having said all this, I see the West Central site is looking for non parent coaching for their host bantam team at next years westerns and whomever it is will be "competitively compensated." Let the games begin! haha

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02-15-2012, 12:37 PM
  #205
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I have seen the Yorkton pee wee team play, mighty but very small. If they grow, they could very well be at Westerns in 2 years.

Back to Zones: Saw some action from Zone 1 this weekend. Wow, is all I can say. They will have more skilled players cut than other zone for sure. Too bad the zones weren't realigned for the purpose of hockey or done in a different way to prevent this many players from missing out on the Zone tournament.

Then there are zones like 4 who will rely on house players to fill the roster. But having said that, Zone 4 looks to be more competitive this year after seeing their camp roster. Solid goal tending, one from AAA ND and 2 AAA ND defense. Add a couple players from Melville and some grinders from Yorkton and they will have a decent team for a change. Still won't be a top team, but will be able to compete against most zones.

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02-15-2012, 01:00 PM
  #206
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Regarding zone 1.... Any signs of early chemistry between Halbgewachs and the Melville contingent? Hard to tell I suppose but strong players have a habit of drawing out that comfort level real quick... Scrimms, drills even off ice.

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02-15-2012, 02:47 PM
  #207
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Zone 1 Chemistry

I caught the Sunday games from the Zone 1 Camp in Kipling. "Chemistry" is not quite the word that pops to mind.

The Melville kids were spread pretty good throughout the 4 rosters. Rykr Cole and Dakota Boutin squared off on different squads in the early scrimmage and both players were easily the top forwards on their respective units. Cole clicked a little with former Moose Mountain team mate Marc Shaw, but for the most part the entire scrimmage was a scrambly collection of individual efforts and transparent frustration.

Jayden Halgbewachs skated in the second scrimmage, and definitely showed his nice hands, but the session was dominated by Jesse Gabrielle. He was a man amongst boys on the ice and put up some ridiculous 6 or 7 points in the scrum. He clicked especially well with Melville's Donovan Neuls, but was effective also with Halgbewachs, Matthew Perkins and Tanner Jeannot. On the Gold Team, Riley Phillipson and Riley Berchard looked good.

Defensively, Nick Lenius, Drew Fellner and Brennan Riddle had strong games. Ethan Bear looked a little dis-interested in the whole affair.

With regards to Zone 4, I agree. The scrimmage on Saturday was a real pleasant surprise. It certainly had more flow than either of the Zone 1 scrimmages that I saw. This team will be solid on the back end with Jarod Hilderman, Turner Ottenbreit, Evan Werle, Jarvis Gelowitz, Adam Niebrandt and Chance Patterson (my picks - I have no idea of actual final roster) and excellent goaltending options in Matt Kustra and Ryan Palchewhich. Upfront it's a little more blue collar, but a good opportunity for some of these forwards to step into a leading role and shine under the heavy spotlight of the Zone Tournament. Tyler Krekelwhich perhaps?


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02-15-2012, 05:00 PM
  #208
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Zone 4 with its seemingly unknown blue collars.... That's what made it flow better, they're more relaxed... Sounds like zone 1 stars were too busy trying to out do one another hence the scrambly play.... Never under-estimate the unknowns... The sad thing is perhaps some quality unknowns are over-looked

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02-15-2012, 05:41 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Sounds like zone 1 stars were too busy trying to out do one another hence the scrambly play....
I wouldn't characterize it that way. Quite the contrary actually. They seemed to know each other well, and when top kids were on the ice together, they used each other well. My characterization of "individual efforts and transparent frsutration" has more to do with the gap in talent than selfish play. Each team had 11 or 12 forwards and only half of them were rostered on a AA caliber team and that's what made it scrambly. It was difficult on the top end players in trying to create offense when they were working with players who didn't know where to be or what to do. They would pull the d-man wide then make a centering pass to the slot only to find their wingmate stopped skating at the blue line. Things like that. Not hard to see who the top players were, but still a challenge for them to keep things moving with the wide gap in talent on the rosters.

Another challenge at the Zone 1 camp was the sheer size of each roster. With 22-23 kids on each team and 4 forward lines, kids were hesitant to come off the ice, and there was a little line change strategy going on as well, as they made their own lines based on first in first out, so some players were trying to time their line changes to play with buddies, etc. The Zone 1 organizers did a fantastic job and seeing the interest at the Zone 1 camp was just excellent, so these are good challenges to have. As I said, it did make for some scrambly play, but not in a negative way and not enough to hinder evaluators from the job at hand.

What helped in Zone 4, and also in the Zone 2 game I watched, were that the gap in talent from top to bottom wasn't that wide and the rosters were smaller, so it was easier generating chemistry and moving the puck.

In the Zone 2 camp especially, I think all the players were rostered on AA teams and it showed, as they all had a good idea of what to do with and without the puck.

Zone 1 will be more than fine in the Tournament, as I didn't see any significant selfish play, but a lot of high end players making or attempting high end plays. There just wasn't a lot of situations where high end players were on the ice together, with the exception of the Team Green forwards, as they had 6 kids who will likely land on the final Zone roster. When they are all together on the Zone team, they should be the best collection of forwards at the Tournament. No slouch on the backend either.


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Old
02-15-2012, 07:56 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Zone 4 with its seemingly unknown blue collars.... That's what made it flow better, they're more relaxed... Sounds like zone 1 stars were too busy trying to out do one another hence the scrambly play.... Never under-estimate the unknowns... The sad thing is perhaps some quality unknowns are over-looked
Bang on! While I was impressed with the number of quality players from Zone 1, unfortunately I did see a lot of selfish play, but because of who they are this will be overlooked and so will several of the non AA quality players that played the game right.

Some played their game while others tended to hog the puck, played individual and took longer shifts than necessary. All I can say is that I wouldn't want to be an evaluator at that camp. I'm sure it came down to who they know and what they know they can do. Unfortunate for some, fortunate for others.

For those that do make it to the Zone tournament it's a great opportunity for that diamond in the rough to shine.

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02-15-2012, 10:08 PM
  #211
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Western, thanks for that update. You and NotToo have painted a good picture of zone 1 camp. I would lean toward side of NotToo perhaps on the selfish play perhaps creeping into the equation BUT overall I would tend to agree with Western particularly if there was a gap in skill. It's unfortunate that some raw rural talent does get overlooked but having said all this, I do still have faith that the evaluation team must put bias aside and take a look at raw talent. In speaking with scouts and reps to me it's clearly skating, puck control and hockey sense... So if you've got some raw talent, can handle the puck well and it's just your hockey sense that may be lacking I would look at those few kids further. Especially at their age, always room to grow mentally, some just never had the coaching. It's no secret, evaluators have their top 10 on the table as soon as the rosters are finalized... Concentrate on those last few spots with some unknowns.

Zone 5 anyone?


Last edited by PokeCheck101: 02-16-2012 at 07:14 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old
02-16-2012, 10:38 AM
  #212
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I'm not suggesting that there would be anything wrong with that sort of developmental structure, I'm just suggesting that if development is the #1 priority, then why are we having this conversation in the first place? If Saskatchewan (and specifically Saskatoon) was having trouble developing players, this debate about team numbers, league structures, etc would make more sense. But from what I can tell, the province and the city are having no trouble producing high calibre hockey players for the junior ranks, and it might be argued they're doing it even more effectively than other western provinces (on a per capita basis).

You might still develop kids as consistently and to the same degree if you cut the number of teams down, but why bother with a huge overhaul if you're already doing well at minor hockey's #1 goal?

This is why I think the argument for fewer teams is coming from a different place - one that places winning at the Bantam level ahead of player development. The problem is that without a drastic reduction in the number of teams (to about 10), Saskatchewan's representative will not be consistently competitive at Western's anyway.

I think I would be MORE in favour of a drastic reduction than a minor one like what we're moving toward. Create a AAA league with 10 teams (2 in each major city, and 6 throughout the rest of the province). Then you get the ultra-elite kids into the AAA league, and you develop the rest in the AA league.

But cutting to 20 or even 18-19 is not going to solve the underlying competitiveness problem.

Great conversation!
This has been an interesting conversation and I agree with a few of you for the most part. I think the biggest issue and the reason that there is even a discussion about this is because SHA has never come out and said why they formed this new league or what the goal of it was. Had they done this i think it would have settled a lot of the speculation. I have heard a few theories but only SHA can say for sure. Did they do it to compete at westerns (not going to happen unless they go down to about 10 teams as has been stated)? Did they do it only to balance the north and south and get rid of some of the teams that usually struggle (i.e. Unity, ML)? Did they do it to help out small town teams (less teams means more kids staying in thier communities to play)? Or do they even know why they did it?

I don't mind the structure as it is now. I do hope that Saskatoon decides to join the north division. I think if they reduced thier teams to 4 or 5 they would be very competitive within the league. I realize that it would mean more travel for them and really the Stoon league is good as is but i think it would benefit everyone in the long run. Some of my best memories growing up are of the road trips we went on as a team and that is something that the Stoon players miss out on.

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02-19-2012, 09:19 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by hockeylocker View Post
Northern division league play begins tonight. Here are my latest regular season predictions:
1) Sask Valley -
2) Battlefords -
3) North East -
4) West Central -
5) Prince Albert -
6) Humboldt -

Fun begins tonight.
Looks like I wasn't to far off my predictions;
Final Standings
1) Sask Valley - Ingram has become the money goalie; strong game blueprint prepared by coaches each game
2) North East - great start, very inconsistent after Christmas, did they peak in November?
3) Battlefords - opposite of North East; will they be the playoff team?
4) West Central - have played good hockey at times
5) Prince Albert - their reign has ended; simply not like last year's team
6) Humboldt - wonder if they wished they had kept Ingram?

First Round Playoff Predictions
Battlefords will beat Humboldt
West Central will beat Prince Albert

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02-19-2012, 09:49 PM
  #214
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SV beat NE 4-0 last Friday. I wasn't at game but heard SV dominated. Anyone make it to the game? Likely the noteable few for SV saw several minutes.... SV takes this momentum into play offs but can they sustain it against depth?

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02-20-2012, 09:23 AM
  #215
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I was at the game Friday, and in my opinion neither team dominated the play. It was a very good back and forth game with each team taking turns controlling the play. S.V. definitly got the better goaltending, Ingram was great. Amundrud was shakey and let in a couple he probably wishes he had back. Creswell came in and played very well. S.V. top players were their best players. Draude put a few on net and seem to find the back of the net with ease. He has a great shot. That may have been the difference. It wasn't N.E.'s top guys I noticed controlling the play as much, it was their depth guys forchecking hard and coming up with the puck. If N.E. top players played with as much heart as their "depth players" they will be hard to beat. Playoffs will be exciting.

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02-24-2012, 11:11 AM
  #216
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The SaskFirst rosters are up on the SHA website.

Does anyone have any idea who is coaching the various zones?

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02-25-2012, 01:27 AM
  #217
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Doesn't look like any surprises there.

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02-25-2012, 12:16 PM
  #218
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First Round Playoff Predictions
Battlefords will beat Humboldt
West Central will beat Prince Albert

Prince Albert defeats West Central in 2 straight games - WOW!!! never would have thought. Credit to Prince Albert for showing that with desire things happen.

With SaskFirst 2 months away for many West Central players, being done hockey so soon doesn't seem right and it will be a long 2 months for them.


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02-26-2012, 05:48 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylocker View Post
First Round Playoff Predictions
Battlefords will beat Humboldt
West Central will beat Prince Albert

Prince Albert defeats West Central in 2 straight games - WOW!!! never would have thought. Credit to Prince Albert for showing that with desire things happen.

With SaskFirst 2 months away for many West Central players, being done hockey so soon doesn't seem right and it will be a long 2 months for them.
What happened to West Central? Flu bug perhaps, injuries? Wow, wouldn't have thought that either... Good for P.A. Anyone catch the games? What made the difference?

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02-28-2012, 11:28 AM
  #220
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I caught the south game between Yorkton and Regina Oilers last night. Wasn't surprised that the Oilers came out on top 2-1 quickly in OT. Yorkton looked tired in the third and didn't have their usual physical presence on the ice. A missed penalty shot and late third period penalties going into OT cost them the game. There were a few missed calls for Regina and Yorkton was reacting with frustration. Talked to a few from Regina that said there were missed calls in game 1 in Yorkton as well. Yorkton is a fast and physical team and need to play their game and should win the series. Eskra played a great game but not sure that he will be enough of a force for the Oilers to advance.

Might go to the Storm/Canucks game tonight but there should be no surprises there.

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03-02-2012, 11:36 AM
  #221
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First Round Playoff Predictions
Battlefords will beat Humboldt
West Central will beat Prince Albert
Battlefords did win.
West Central was eliminated.

Well, I was 1 for 2 in 1st round North precdictions. What will round two look like?? You came to the right place to find out.
Sask Valley vs PA
PA has picked up their play of late. Defending champions in all sports do not give up a crown easily. But Sask Valley didn't finish first for a reason.
Sask Valley just stronger..take series 2-0

North East vs Battlefords
Battlefords got a huge scare from Humboldt and just squeaked by the surging Humboldt team in a hard-fought series. North East meanwhile are rested with many wondering if they can return to their early season dominance.
North East just has that more firepower and will take this series 2-1.

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03-02-2012, 12:55 PM
  #222
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Stoon playoffs have begun. Maniacs have eliminated the Frostbite and the Bandits and Generals are tied 1-1. Has anyone been out to any games yet to provide some insite?

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03-03-2012, 12:03 PM
  #223
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Stoon playoffs have begun. Maniacs have eliminated the Frostbite and the Bandits and Generals are tied 1-1. Has anyone been out to any games yet to provide some insite?
Caught the second Maniacs/Frostbite game. Was a gritty, defensive affair (2-2 after the second period) until some soft goals in the third broke things open. Best forward: Sloboshan. Created offence on regular basis, and more importantly, back-checked Hebig to the point where he was pretty much a non-factor all night long. Honorable mention: Dahlgren. Best Defenseman: Constant (not sure how he wasn't picked for zones). Some miscues in his own zone due to being too fancy with the puck, but otherwise was a rock (especially on the PK). Honorable mention: Conway. Frostbite forwards, except when on the PP, didn't create a lot of chances. On the the backend, Doepker and Melnyk were solid defensively but unable to generate much offence (although that could largely be due to the uninspired play of the foward group). Looking forward to the next round.

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03-06-2012, 09:38 AM
  #224
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I see Prince Albert is not going to go away quietly. I was unable to make the game in P.A. can anyone who was there give some insight on how things played out. I would have bet a toonie that Sask Valley was going to finish this in two games. Will this be another upset under P.A.'s belt, or will Sask Valley come out hungrier than ever? Thoughts?

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03-06-2012, 12:36 PM
  #225
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what are you thoughts on the final four teams? who will win each series? and who will win the whole thing?

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