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Injury Talk 4.0: Markov practicing with the team, now with contact

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Old
03-06-2012, 12:14 AM
  #976
bsl
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Couldn't the World Championships accomplish the same thing? Give him 5 games here and then the Worlds.

Anyways it's all semantics. The guy is going to come back as soon as he can so PG can try to save face.
You guys are up late! It's 2 PM here. Go to bed guys!

Good point LG, I can buy 5 NHL games for Marky IF he plays 5 more at the WC, but the Habs should ask him to decide on this now.

And in support of LG, everyone here is forgetting one thing:

If we are going to suck this bad, and have such a terrible year, with tons of injuries also, that may not occur again in such numbers, It is crucial we finish bottom 3, even better bottom 2. And that means we have to suck badly.

(If it wasn't for sucky tanking 3 year in a row Edmonton, that would be easier. No one should be allowed to pick top 3 three years in a row, and I will start a new thread on this later. Oilers have now joined my top hate list, along with Pens.)

Why? Bottom 2 or 3 finish gives us a decent chance at winning the lottery and getting Yaks. Yaks is a once a decade chance for the Habs, if that. Even bottom 4 or 5 is not good enough, your chances of bumping to 1 in the lottery go down significantly. And out of bottom 5? No Chance at all.

We have to finish bottom 2 or 3, and that means playing Marky just enough to evaluate him, properly, and no more.


Last edited by bsl: 03-06-2012 at 12:37 AM.
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03-06-2012, 12:21 AM
  #977
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Anyone else notice his new visor on tsn? Oh and the blown tire too lol but its alright just rust.

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03-06-2012, 12:29 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Upsides to Markov playing:

- He regains confidence in his playing ability

- He regains confidence in his knee

- Any unforeseen fragility will be discovered now, before the season ends. If so, we can fill that hole properly this time.

- Teammates familiarize themselves with him and start building chemistry.

- Playing alongside a healthy Markov makes the Habs appear slightly more attractive to potential UFAs.

Downsides to Markov playing:

- He might reverse the tank.
Good point bolded above. This is another reason why I think Marky should play about ten games, no more, no less. Helps us tank but yes, will let UFA players know he's probably OK to go. I had not thought of that.

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03-06-2012, 03:10 AM
  #979
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lol no one noticed how he doesn't give a flying bruin about playing with Emelin?!
"Wha?! It's not important who's your partner." LMAO!
He and RC are on the same page then.

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03-06-2012, 06:34 AM
  #980
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When he's ready to play, he plays. Period. End of story.

Habs officially cross into bush league status if they're keeping healthy guys out of the lineup in an effort to tank. That would reek of 1984 Pittsburgh Penguins inexplicably bringing up ECHL goalies to help secure Lemieux, or Ottawa losing on purpose to get Daigle. You don't try to lose. You ice the best possible lineup out of your group of available players and go from there. If you lose anyway, then "good". But you don't ice an inferior lineup on purpose. You just don't.

PG should have blown it up more and traded a few more guys to stockpile picks and "help" with the tank, but it's too late for that now.

For the guys whining that we should tell Markov he has to sit out another 10 games once he's ready to go, why stop there? Why not start Budaj every game from here on out? If Budaj plays well, call up Lawson from Hamilton and start him in every game. Why not send down Eller and call up Conboy to centre the 3rd line? Why not make DD play defense? The PP is looking better these days, time to fire Randy C and make Larry Carriere the full time head coach!

If you're gonna stoop to bush league nonsense like keeping your best defenseman out of the lineup longer than he needs to be, then go all in. Make yourselves look like even more of a joke of a franchise. Go out and lose that last scrap of dignity and respect that you have left. Piss off all of your remaining good players who actually bust their buts every game trying to win.

Look, anyone who wants Markov out longer than necessary, give your head a shake. That's freaking disgraceful. You might not be embarassed by that but the entire team would be. This guy needs to get back in the lineup and play as much as possible, once he's ready. That's far more important than slightly increasing the chances of getting a #3 pick instead of a # 4. For all we know, if Montreal did make Markov sit and ended up picking #3, the #4 guy might end up being better anyway.

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03-06-2012, 07:55 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It shocks me how these guys can sit here and actually accuse me of being narrow minded and then turn around with posts like that.

Seriously.. who gives a crap about Markov's tenure? The guy hasn't played for us in two freaking years and we've continuously planned around the assumption that he'd be here. It's completely screwed up this team and now it's the end of the world if we don't play him? Give me a break man. When are these guys going to understand that the team is bigger than the individual? Markov can play in the Worlds. We can assess him there... but even if we couldn't I don't give a crap.

This is a wasted year. Getting a top pick is far more important to the future of this team than Markov is. I know it's hard for folks like Budda (who perpetually overrate this team) to understand but there's absolutely no reason to bring this guy back right now.

The silliness in this thread is unreal. I've heard guys argue that it makes no difference if we get lower picks vs. a top 3. I've heard guys put Markov's feelings above the well being of the team. And I've heard guys try to change the topic to ideology...

Bottom line is that a top pick would greatly benefit this team. We can't ignore this. With the lost season we've had coming out of this year without a top five pick would be absolutely pointless.
You have a warped sense of reality...not sure why I'm even replying.

Even if Markov came back and made a huge impact the last 8-10 games we are STILL going to get a top pick. We are like 95% guaranteed right now to get a top 5 pick, 6th at worse.

The difference from picking 2nd to 6th is minimal as after Yakupov the next group of 5 players is about the same(Forsberg Dumba Murray Grigorenko Galchenyuk) so we are basically guaranteed to get one of those guys unless we decide to go "outside the box".

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03-06-2012, 08:11 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
When he's ready to play, he plays. Period. End of story.

Habs officially cross into bush league status if they're keeping healthy guys out of the lineup in an effort to tank. That would reek of 1984 Pittsburgh Penguins inexplicably bringing up ECHL goalies to help secure Lemieux, or Ottawa losing on purpose to get Daigle. You don't try to lose. You ice the best possible lineup out of your group of available players and go from there. If you lose anyway, then "good". But you don't ice an inferior lineup on purpose. You just don't.
I agree with this completely. I would love the top pick but you don't sit your best players to lose on purpose. Especially one who has been out so long. If Markov came back and was a difference maker, I would think that's a good thing heading into next season. And there is no guarantee of that. But I would rather him get his feet wet now, instead of adding 7 more months of no ice time.

Would love to get Yakupov, but in the end you finish where you finish.

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03-06-2012, 09:16 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
Habs officially cross into bush league status if they're keeping healthy guys out of the lineup in an effort to tank. That would reek of 1984 Pittsburgh Penguins inexplicably bringing up ECHL goalies to help secure Lemieux,
Are you suggesting they shouldn't have done whatever they could have, to land the best player in the world? I thought it was brilliant, the turning point in the franchise obviously.

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03-06-2012, 09:28 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You have a warped sense of reality...not sure why I'm even replying.

Even if Markov came back and made a huge impact the last 8-10 games we are STILL going to get a top pick. We are like 95% guaranteed right now to get a top 5 pick, 6th at worse.

The difference from picking 2nd to 6th is minimal as after Yakupov the next group of 5 players is about the same(Forsberg Dumba Murray Grigorenko Galchenyuk) so we are basically guaranteed to get one of those guys unless we decide to go "outside the box".
In fact you are horribly wrong. 2nd pick means we have a high chance of getting Yakupov in the lottery. 6th pick, and we have no chance at all. Think before you post.

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03-06-2012, 09:40 AM
  #985
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Knew he was gone and used the LTIR space to replace him.

Also Savard was never as important as Chara or Thomas.
you mean their GM made the necessary adjustments to make sure they could compete without him? hmmm, now isn't that an example of good management, maybe Chiarelli can "tutor" our management team.


1- I specifically pointed out "best FORWARD".

2-

Revisionist history at it's finest.
just b/c you tell yourself something over and over, doesn't make it true.
2006-07 Boston Bruins NHL 82 22 74 96
2007-08 Boston Bruins NHL 74 15 63 78
2008-09 Boston Bruins NHL 82 25 63 88

funny that when it comes to us, several posters lament the fact that all we need is an elite C... you know, the kind that can put up PPG+ production consistently.

elite goalies & elite #1 dmen are always most valuable, doesn't negate or reduce the value of having a #1 C capable of Savard's quality.



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Still have fallen somewhat, with Crosby healthy are probably fighting for first
yeah, because losing your #1C, who also happens to be the best player in the league is supposed to have no effect???

Come on.

Point is that, DESPITE losing such a valuable player and key cog to their team, they are STILL very much a top team in the league (6th overall currently).



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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Take away the team MVP... who is New York's MVP? Lundqvist not Staal. They are nowhere without Henrik.
Price was clearly the team MVP last year, and as good as Markov is, he was never quite in the Hart trophy conversation the way Price rightfully was last year.

Even with a healthy Markov, Price at the level he was at, like Lundqvist, was the MVP.

Without Price, we weren't anywhere close to a playoff team last year... and with him taking a bit of a step back this year... lottery here we come.




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"Some will fall farther than others, but every team will falter some if you give their MVP a long term injury."
and why, please explain, do you think this happens... if not for the difference in how well a team is managed?

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Old
03-06-2012, 09:43 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Even if Markov came back and made a huge impact the last 8-10 games we are STILL going to get a top pick. We are like 95% guaranteed right now to get a top 5 pick, 6th at worse.
I guess you don't remember the spring of 2001 very well? And these days the standings are tighter than ever, nothing is guaranteed.

Edit: Haha, guess that was 11 years ago now, you're forgiven if you don't remember it, I'm getting old.

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03-06-2012, 09:45 AM
  #987
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Can't wait to see Markov back this season/

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Old
03-06-2012, 10:01 AM
  #988
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In fact you are horribly wrong. 2nd pick means we have a high chance of getting Yakupov in the lottery. 6th pick, and we have no chance at all. Think before you post.
I still wouldn't intentionally lose games to have a 10% better chance at 1st overall pick.

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03-06-2012, 10:01 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You have a warped sense of reality...not sure why I'm even replying.

Even if Markov came back and made a huge impact the last 8-10 games we are STILL going to get a top pick. We are like 95% guaranteed right now to get a top 5 pick, 6th at worse.

The difference from picking 2nd to 6th is minimal as after Yakupov the next group of 5 players is about the same(Forsberg Dumba Murray Grigorenko Galchenyuk) so we are basically guaranteed to get one of those guys unless we decide to go "outside the box".
Dude, this post just reinforces that you really don't know what you're talking about. There's absolutely no benefit to picking later. None. All that happens is that you're allowing other teams to pick ahead of you. We should be deciding between Galchenyuk and Grigorenko. That doesn't happen if we're drafting 6th. And for all we know Forsberg could be gone by then too. Then it's a bunch of blueliners... again.

And as somebody else pointed out, if you finish top three you actually have an outside shot at drafting first. Beyond that it's not going to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I still wouldn't intentionally lose games to have a 10% better chance at 1st overall pick.
And nobody's suggesting we do this.

Holding out an injured player a little longer is pefectly fine. It gives Markov a little bit of extra time to recover and we'll probably slip in the standings. Nobody is suggesting we stop playing MaxPac or that we throw games. Keeping Markov out of the lineup a little longer isn't unethical. It's cautionary and just happens to help us get a higher pick... so that's why we should do it. There's no reason to rush this right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
When he's ready to play, he plays. Period. End of story.

Habs officially cross into bush league status if they're keeping healthy guys out of the lineup in an effort to tank. That would reek of 1984 Pittsburgh Penguins inexplicably bringing up ECHL goalies to help secure Lemieux, or Ottawa losing on purpose to get Daigle. You don't try to lose. You ice the best possible lineup out of your group of available players and go from there. If you lose anyway, then "good". But you don't ice an inferior lineup on purpose. You just don't.

PG should have blown it up more and traded a few more guys to stockpile picks and "help" with the tank, but it's too late for that now.

For the guys whining that we should tell Markov he has to sit out another 10 games once he's ready to go, why stop there? Why not start Budaj every game from here on out? If Budaj plays well, call up Lawson from Hamilton and start him in every game. Why not send down Eller and call up Conboy to centre the 3rd line? Why not make DD play defense? The PP is looking better these days, time to fire Randy C and make Larry Carriere the full time head coach!

If you're gonna stoop to bush league nonsense like keeping your best defenseman out of the lineup longer than he needs to be, then go all in. Make yourselves look like even more of a joke of a franchise. Go out and lose that last scrap of dignity and respect that you have left. Piss off all of your remaining good players who actually bust their buts every game trying to win.

Look, anyone who wants Markov out longer than necessary, give your head a shake. That's freaking disgraceful. You might not be embarassed by that but the entire team would be. This guy needs to get back in the lineup and play as much as possible, once he's ready. That's far more important than slightly increasing the chances of getting a #3 pick instead of a # 4. For all we know, if Montreal did make Markov sit and ended up picking #3, the #4 guy might end up being better anyway.
Yes. Heaven forbid we land a player like Mario Lemieux. What a horrific day that would be.

Sitting Markov a little longer isn't bush leauge. It's not cheating and it's not the same thing as bringing up an AHL goalie. Nobody is suggesting we lose on purpose. Bringing back Markov a little later makes a lot of sense. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing this.

As for ethics... were you upset when Polloch ripped off the Seals for their first pick? Were you upset when he dealt a competing team extra players so the Seals would finish last? Welcome to the real world man.

And if we do sit Markov and land a franchise talent... nobody is going to care. Nobody is going to remember any of this because there'd be nothing wrong with what we'd done.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 03-06-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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03-06-2012, 10:04 AM
  #990
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I hope Markov can come back soon and be as good as he was before the injuries. I forget how good he was.

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03-06-2012, 10:05 AM
  #991
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I guess you don't remember the spring of 2001 very well? And these days the standings are tighter than ever, nothing is guaranteed.

Edit: Haha, guess that was 11 years ago now, you're forgiven if you don't remember it, I'm getting old.
The standings are not THAT tight, we'd have to gain 6-7 points on those teams in 16 games in order to fall out of the top 5, meaning if they stay around 1 point per game played(current pace) we would need 22-24 points out of 32, .680% to .750% of possible points...we'd have to basically be the top team in the last 16 games to fall out of the bottom 5.

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03-06-2012, 10:06 AM
  #992
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and why, please explain, do you think this happens... if not for the difference in how well a team is managed?
Is about depth and ability to replace a guy.

Pitt has gotten lucky in that they have three Cs Crosby Malkin Staal all drafted top 2 and so they can fill that hole.

Filling holes of Markov calibre guys is not easy, but yes we should have had a better plan B this season, and thats a mistake of management. But even if we had a plan B we'd be better than we are but not as good as Pitt because our plan B wont be as good as Malkin.

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03-06-2012, 10:08 AM
  #993
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Yeah, I mean in order for the franchise to take positive steps forward one of: Yakupov, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk and maybe Forsberg would be best going forward.

Anyway do any of you guys know the exact date of the lottery? I heard its sometime in april. Also what the percentages of drafting 1st overall if you're in 2nd or 3rd place? I've been looking it up but cant find anything...

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03-06-2012, 10:09 AM
  #994
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As far as I`m concerned he should sit, we aren't making the playoffs, no need to risk him go down again, the season is over. Give him the 6 extra months and he starts playing during the training camp.

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03-06-2012, 10:09 AM
  #995
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When he's ready to play, he plays. Period. End of story.

Habs officially cross into bush league status if they're keeping healthy guys out of the lineup in an effort to tank. That would reek of 1984 Pittsburgh Penguins inexplicably bringing up ECHL goalies to help secure Lemieux, or Ottawa losing on purpose to get Daigle. You don't try to lose. You ice the best possible lineup out of your group of available players and go from there. If you lose anyway, then "good". But you don't ice an inferior lineup on purpose. You just don't.

PG should have blown it up more and traded a few more guys to stockpile picks and "help" with the tank, but it's too late for that now.

For the guys whining that we should tell Markov he has to sit out another 10 games once he's ready to go, why stop there? Why not start Budaj every game from here on out? If Budaj plays well, call up Lawson from Hamilton and start him in every game. Why not send down Eller and call up Conboy to centre the 3rd line? Why not make DD play defense? The PP is looking better these days, time to fire Randy C and make Larry Carriere the full time head coach!

If you're gonna stoop to bush league nonsense like keeping your best defenseman out of the lineup longer than he needs to be, then go all in. Make yourselves look like even more of a joke of a franchise. Go out and lose that last scrap of dignity and respect that you have left. Piss off all of your remaining good players who actually bust their buts every game trying to win.

Look, anyone who wants Markov out longer than necessary, give your head a shake. That's freaking disgraceful. You might not be embarassed by that but the entire team would be. This guy needs to get back in the lineup and play as much as possible, once he's ready. That's far more important than slightly increasing the chances of getting a #3 pick instead of a # 4. For all we know, if Montreal did make Markov sit and ended up picking #3, the #4 guy might end up being better anyway.
This is a fantastic post which I agree with 100%. This is the Montreal Canadiens. The greatest hockey franchise of all time. Have some ****ing pride

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03-06-2012, 10:13 AM
  #996
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As far as I`m concerned he should sit, we aren't making the playoffs, no need to risk him go down again, the season is over. Give him the 6 extra months and he starts playing during the training camp.
If he's physically ready and he is feeling mentally ready to play. Let's go. Give him PP time and 15 minutes per game.

Anyway, he's gonna be ready and will play for Russia in the Worlds.

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03-06-2012, 10:13 AM
  #997
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Are you suggesting they shouldn't have done whatever they could have, to land the best player in the world? I thought it was brilliant, the turning point in the franchise obviously.
Yes, they should have tried to win. That's the whole point. Losing on purpose should not be rewarded. I can guarantee you if a team pulled this stunt in this day and age the NHL would actually have the guts to take away the #1 pick, which they should have done to Pitts in 1984.

Let's suppose Montreal keeps Markov out of the lineup. Markov's not gonna be happy about spending two years re-habbing just to be a healthy scratch. Even if he doesn't say anything his agent does. Markov sure as heck wouldn't want to be back in Montreal next year after the bush league stunt and demands a trade. So too do Cole, Gionta, Price, Subban, Gorges, etc etc since they're all disgusted in their team's management.

The media smells blood and they do some digging. Eventually someone in the front office fesses up, the league investigates and figures out that yes, Markov was healthy and was kept out of the lineup in favour of Chris freakin' Campoli just so Montreal would have a better chance to lose a few extra games. PG tries to argue that Campoli is awesome and Markov wasn't ready, despite 19 doctors saying otherwise.

Gary Bettman dinged the New Jersey Devils a pick from signing Kovalchuk to a perfectly acceptable contract. What do you think he'd do to the Habs for making a mockery of about 15 games in an all-out effort to lose? The sad part is no matter what they do they're not going to end up in last overall, Columbus has that locked up. So is it really worth it to try to slightly increase your odds of holding on to # 3 and not falling to # 4 or # 5? Hell no.

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03-06-2012, 10:14 AM
  #998
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Are you suggesting they shouldn't have done whatever they could have, to land the best player in the world? I thought it was brilliant, the turning point in the franchise obviously.
It was a joke, they made themselves a laughing stock. Very unprofessional to do what they did.....it's also one of the reasons you can no longer tank and then be guranteed the 1st overall...

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03-06-2012, 10:15 AM
  #999
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let him play and see if he can return to the integral force he was on D. that said i would make sure staubitz and white keep playing. we have a conference filled with ******* like kaleta and marchand that love to hit dirty

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03-06-2012, 10:16 AM
  #1000
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let him play and see if he can return to the integral force he was on D. that said i would make sure staubitz and white keep playing. we have a conference filled with ******* like kaleta and marchand that love to hit dirty
Habs are not playing against the Bruins anymore this season.

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