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Old
03-05-2012, 10:21 PM
  #76
DeflatedFootball7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
If you have $4.4 million left over and only 12 forwards, why not re-sign Jagr for $3 million and have a full 22-man roster? And no Zac Rinaldo playing every night?
Fair enough.

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Old
03-05-2012, 11:40 PM
  #77
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I don't think we need an overhaul, just tweaks to certain areas. While I think we can compete, we can't put it together for a whole 60 consistently. So.....

I'll have another go at it: dream <-- key word CAP of 68 Mil.

Carle/Jagr/"Kabrina" gone for walk.
Pronger gone (not sure how this will work).
Bring back Grossman. (3 years....?)
Bring in a big body, right handed shot in Jurcina (less money and younger than "Kabrina" ) but will not produce points as often. (3 years....?)
Bring in Suter. (5-7 years)
Bring in Slater to man the 4th line centre pos. ( 3 years....?)

I think our forward core is great. Minor addition.

D gets a boost with Suter and Jurcina.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.250m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Jim Slater ($1.250m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Ryan Suter ($6.000m) / Nicklas Grossman ($2.125m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Milan Jurcina ($2.125m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $68,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,966,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,033,056

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Old
03-06-2012, 05:55 AM
  #78
Rick Deckard
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Regarding the contract Suter will demand as an unrestricted free agent.

That is a list of #1 UFA defensemen who signed as UFA or were close to become UFAs:

DefenderAgeTeamYearCaphitLengthUpper Limit%
Gonchar, Sergei31Pittsburgh Penguins20055.000.000539.000.00012.8
Blake, Rob37Los Angeles Kings20066.000.000244.000.00013.6
Chara, Zdeno29Boston Bruins20067.500.000544.000.00017.0
Redden, Wade29Ottawa Senators20066.500.000244.000.00014.8
Timonen, Kimmo32Philadelphia Flyers20076.333.333650.300.00012.6
Rafalski, Brian34Detroit Red Wings20076.000.000550.300.00011.9
Boyle, Dan32Tampa Bay Lightning20086.666.667656.700.00011.8
Campbell, Brian29Chicago Blackhawks20087.142.875856.700.00012.6
Bouwmeester, Jay26Calgary Flames20096.680.000556.800.00011.8
Niedermayer, Scott36Anaheim Ducks20096.750.000156.800.00011.9

There hasn't been a number one defenseman available the last two offseasons.

Except of 2006, the caphit is always between 12% and 13% of the upper limit, none of those contracts has "cap years" in it.

If the cap stays at $64.3MM, 12% would be $7.7MM, 13% would be $8.3MM. If the cap rises up to $69MM, 12% is $8.3MM, 13% is $9.0MM.

Regarding the term I can see two options, a five (six) year contract through his prime with a chance for him to sign another big contract at age 32 (33) or a deal that covers the remainder of his career until age 41, and expecting him to play until age 37 (Kovalchuk rule).

(12% figures for both options)

Option one: Six years, $46.2MM, $7.7MM p/a with the low upper limit, six years, $49.8MM, $8.3MM p/a with the high upper limit.

Option two: 14 years, $81MM, $5.8MM p/a with the low upper limit, 14 years, $87MM, $6.3MM p/a with the high upper limit. The structure of that contract would be the maximum salary the first couple years (20% of the upper limit, $12.86MM and $13.8MM respectively), declining numbers the following eight years with a total of $51.28MM ($55.4MM) with year ten earning $7.43MM ($7.9MM) and the final four years at $1MM each.

Year$63.4MM$69MM
112.8613.80
212.8613.80
37.437.90
46.266.79
56.266.79
66.266.79
76.266.79
86.266.79
96.266.79
106.266.79
111.001.00
121.001.00
131.001.00
141.001.00
Total80.9787.03
%9.09.0
Caphit$5.78MM$6.22MM

(interchanged year three and ten due to the amount a contract can drop in a year)

I refuted myself, fine ...


Last edited by Rick Deckard: 03-06-2012 at 06:13 AM.
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Old
03-06-2012, 07:22 AM
  #79
phillyfanatic
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I see Ryan Suter signed for 5 years 6 million per above? They are debating on the Nashville board if he is worth 8 million for 7 years, and you think we are getting him for 6 million for 5 years? Dream on. He is getting AT LEAST 7 million. Personally, I think he gets between 7-7.5 for 7+ years. His deal will be worth over 50 million and it will have a NMC. He is the best UFA defenseman in years. And even at that cap hit, I hope we get him. He is worth it.

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Old
03-06-2012, 07:28 AM
  #80
Rick Deckard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
[...]

Option one: Six years, $46.2MM, $7.7MM p/a with the low upper limit, six years, $49.8MM, $8.3MM p/a with the high upper limit. [...]
That's what I wrote

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Old
03-06-2012, 07:36 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I see Ryan Suter signed for 5 years 6 million per above? They are debating on the Nashville board if he is worth 8 million for 7 years, and you think we are getting him for 6 million for 5 years? Dream on. He is getting AT LEAST 7 million. Personally, I think he gets between 7-7.5 for 7+ years. His deal will be worth over 50 million and it will have a NMC. He is the best UFA defenseman in years. And even at that cap hit, I hope we get him. He is worth it.
If it was 6M a year Preds would probably sign him already. I suspect he is going to want more.

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Old
03-06-2012, 08:25 AM
  #82
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I think if we go for suter, and have a chance of re-signing kubina/kimmo (even though he still has another year/grossman... Briere is gonna be going.

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Old
03-06-2012, 09:42 AM
  #83
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My dream/no-way-in-hell outcome of the summer signings and re-signings would look something like this:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($2.700m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.700m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Matt Read ($0.900m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Ryan Suter ($5.900m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossman ($2.400m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $67,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,288,373; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $566,627

Suter won't sign for that low, probably. Even if he's signed for a lot of years and the contract is front-loaded as in Rick's example above and while Jagr might have said that he'd be willing to take a pay-cut, I doubt he'll take one this big, one can hope though. Maybe the Flyers could sponsor Kladno a little bit in exchange... Voracek signs another one-year contract with a modest raise. Pronger miraculously recovers over the summer. If not, he'd go on LTIR and we could insert Bourdon/Gustafsson/Bartulis/Someone Else. Shelley is waived/retired to coach the Phantoms.

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Old
03-06-2012, 12:32 PM
  #84
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I think if we go for suter, and have a chance of re-signing kubina/kimmo (even though he still has another year/grossman... Briere is gonna be going.
i hope hes moved regardless of the Suter situation

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Old
03-06-2012, 02:25 PM
  #85
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What about Shelley?!

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Old
03-06-2012, 02:38 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ninetynine View Post
What about Shelley?!
I believe Shelley will get the Cote treatment. I think him and management know there really isn't a place on this team when Sestito is healthy.

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03-06-2012, 02:42 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I believe Shelley will get the Cote treatment. I think him and management know there really isn't a place on this team when Sestito is healthy.
Would you leave 900k on the table?

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Old
03-06-2012, 02:44 PM
  #88
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Would you leave 900k on the table?
He will retire and take a position in the organization just like Cote did. He will get paid no matter what. I think Shelley knows his time is wearing thin here.

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03-06-2012, 02:44 PM
  #89
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What's wrong with keeping him around as a 14th forward and great team guy? Like Cote his last year except Shelley's contract expires

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Old
03-06-2012, 02:45 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
I don't think we need an overhaul, just tweaks to certain areas. While I think we can compete, we can't put it together for a whole 60 consistently. So.....

I'll have another go at it: dream <-- key word CAP of 68 Mil.

Carle/Jagr/"Kabrina" gone for walk.
Pronger gone (not sure how this will work).
Bring back Grossman. (3 years....?)
Bring in a big body, right handed shot in Jurcina (less money and younger than "Kabrina" ) but will not produce points as often. (3 years....?)
Bring in Suter. (5-7 years)
Bring in Slater to man the 4th line centre pos. ( 3 years....?)

I think our forward core is great. Minor addition.

D gets a boost with Suter and Jurcina.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.250m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Jim Slater ($1.250m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Ryan Suter ($6.000m) / Nicklas Grossman ($2.125m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Milan Jurcina ($2.125m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $68,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,966,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,033,056
I like this lineup. I think if they traded Bob for some picks or something, they could sign a backup for around $1 million and use the roughly $1.75 from that would be remaining, add it to the money they would have paid Slater and look for something better than Slater (not sure who...Gaustad maybe?). I think Suter at $6 is unlikely though.

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Old
03-06-2012, 02:49 PM
  #91
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What's wrong with keeping him around as a 14th forward and great team guy? Like Cote his last year except Shelley's contract expires
1.1 mil burned just for being a cool guy isn't worth it.

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03-06-2012, 02:49 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I like this lineup. I think if they traded Bob for some picks or something, they could sign a backup for around $1 million and use the roughly $1.75 from that would be remaining, add it to the money they would have paid Slater and look for something better than Slater (not sure who...Gaustad maybe?). I think Suter at $6 is unlikely though.
See, there's a spot for the Flyers heavyweight. Gaustad will probably be grossly over-paid this summer due to his size and the Flyers shouldn't want any part of that.

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03-06-2012, 02:51 PM
  #93
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Fans think that Suter will only get between 5.9-6M a year? Seriously?

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03-06-2012, 02:53 PM
  #94
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Fans think that Suter will only get between 5.9-6M a year? Seriously?
If the cap goes down, it's possible, but I'd expect a deal of 4-5 years at 7-7.5m per year

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03-06-2012, 02:55 PM
  #95
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If the cap goes down, it's possible, but I'd expect a deal of 4-5 years at 7-7.5m per year
I think if Suter hits Free agency he will get a long long deal depending if the new CBA allows it

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03-06-2012, 02:57 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I think if Suter hits Free agency he will get a long long deal depending if the new CBA allows it
Either way, it won't be backloaded, Pronger-style contracts are grandfathered like helmet-free players in the 80's.

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Old
03-06-2012, 03:39 PM
  #97
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The two players I want are Gaustad and Jackman. I would trade Mez if there was a chance to bring in Jackman and Guastad is the face off specialist we need.

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Old
03-06-2012, 03:52 PM
  #98
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I've made numerous posts on the topic, I should have saved it, but I'd be shocked if Suter gets over 7 million AAV. (Barring some big change in the CBA). Haven't you guys noticed the trends? Players get TERM now. GMs will give players however many years their heart desires, as long as the cap hit stays relatively manageable.

The Kovalchuk rule only affects contracts going beyond age 41 (highly unlikely at Suter's age). So as long as they stick to the normal de-escalation rules (that Homer messed up with Talbot), they should be fine. (Again, barring a big CBA change).

Again, I'd be surprised if he tops 7 mill.

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Old
03-06-2012, 03:54 PM
  #99
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The two players I want are Gaustad and Jackman. I would trade Mez if there was a chance to bring in Jackman and Guastad is the face off specialist we need.
Flames re-signed Jackman.

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03-06-2012, 03:57 PM
  #100
Rick Deckard
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Flames re-signed Jackman.
There is a defenseman in St.Louis.

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