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03-07-2012, 04:20 PM
  #101
achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post


Shanahan says that Ericsson is eligible to be hit even when he admires his pass.
And all Rinaldo had to do was keep his feet down and plow his chest. Would have been legal.

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03-07-2012, 04:25 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
And all Rinaldo had to do was keep his feet down and plow his chest. Would have been legal.
Correct. Chest, not head.

Apparently Kronwall has his own type of head-shot mastered, and the NHL is going to let it slide no matter how many brains he scrambles.






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03-07-2012, 04:29 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Correct. Chest, not head.

Apparently Kronwall has his own type of head-shot mastered, and the NHL is going to let it slide no matter how many brains he scrambles.





And Rinaldo hit his chest on the hit anyway. He got 2 gams for his past and for leaving his feet.

I have no issues with the first 2 hits. Last one is dirty, all head.
Love Buf's response to the havlat hit.


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03-07-2012, 04:29 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by giraffywaffy View Post
It's funny how two people can watch the same thing and have a different opinion, especially since the announcer who called both plays acknowledged them the same, but were angry about one and not the other.

oh well.
It's clear that Richards hits him in the chest with his forearm first. We've watched a little bit of Mike Richards here; that's just how he hits. What he did on that hit is what we've seen him do to many players over the years.

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03-07-2012, 04:34 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It's clear that Richards hits him in the chest with his forearm first. We've watched a little bit of Mike Richards here; that's just how he hits. What he did on that hit is what we've seen him do to many players over the years.
The point is that chest or head, the hit is legal because he doesn't target it, he hits with his body and that stops his momentum. Dirty headshots let the hitter continue his momentum because they're not body shots.
Kronwall stepped up with the body and got him in the head because Voracek exposed that part of his body and let it become the closest point to contact, and the rest of the body followed, and Kronwalls momentum stopped.

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03-07-2012, 04:38 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by giraffywaffy View Post
The point is that chest or head, the hit is legal because he doesn't target it, he hits with his body and that stops his momentum. Dirty headshots let the hitter continue his momentum because they're not body shots.
Kronwall stepped up with the body and got him in the head because Voracek exposed that part of his body and let it become the closest point to contact, and the rest of the body followed, and Kronwalls momentum stopped.
The Richards hit is legal because the principle point of contact is not the head. The Kronwall hit SHOULD be suspendable because he hits the head first, after lining up his man and hitting him while he was unaware. The NHL has spent the last two years saying that it's no longer the fault of the player getting hit for having his head down; responsibility lies with the hitter to not lay into the player. The whole "his head was down" argument was nullified by the NHL...until just now, apparently. Kronwall had other options, and he chose the most dangerous one. The result was a headshot. Blame is on Kronwall...and it doesn't help him that he has an extensive history of dangerous hits.

This hit is the exact type of thing the NHL has been trying to put an end to. They've failed.

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03-07-2012, 04:44 PM
  #107
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You're wrong, there are legal hits to the head concerning rule 48, which are circumstantial. This falls under it. The league agreed and Voracek agreed. Giroux, Briere, and Jagr agreed.

Richards made PPOC with the head, not the chest first, but it was fairly close and simultaneous. Voracek was unaware and hunched over, not quite as much as last night, but enough to get hit in the head. He reared back though.

I guess we won't agree. There is no conspiracy regarding Kronwall. It's clean, no matter how much it might hurt to admit. The game is placed very quickly on the ice are there a lot of variables to look at regarding each hit to the head. This was a good one.

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03-07-2012, 04:46 PM
  #108
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I guess we can't agree, if you think a clear blow to the chest is a headshot.


The hit was clean in 2010 and before. In 2012, it's not...unless the NHL has decided to call a mulligan on their whole "headshot" thing. I'm sorry, but you have to realize that your player is to blame. That is the culture the NHL has been trying to foster; they're trying to stop blaming the victim in this circumstance. Kronwall had plenty of time to run him into the boards or hipcheck him. He decided that blasting him high would be more fun.

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03-07-2012, 04:47 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giraffywaffy View Post
The point is that chest or head, the hit is legal because he doesn't target it, he hits with his body and that stops his momentum. Dirty headshots let the hitter continue his momentum because they're not body shots.
Kronwall stepped up with the body and got him in the head because Voracek exposed that part of his body and let it become the closest point to contact, and the rest of the body followed, and Kronwalls momentum stopped.
Don't waste your time, some people just think any hit that touches the head now should be suspended. Therefore players should skate with the head down so players cant hit them from the front cause they would have to hit the head first.

I will try to explain the rule as easily as possible.

The head contact rule is mainly for the blind side hits why you ask. This is because players were electing to target the head and not the body from the side. They had a chance to hit the body and choose to hit else where. This can also work from the front, if a guy is standing straight up and a player extended upward or jumps into the head, that would be targeting the head.

In the Rinadlo situation I believe the only reason he got suspended was he had a slight leap, I say slight cause I don't believe it was anything major but he choose to hit Ericsson more on the head area then the body which was exposed. (note he came from Ericsson's Right side not straight on.)

The Kronwall hit. Kronwall came straight at the opponent. Vorachk was looking back and turned up ice as Kronwall was stepping up other wise this hit would be to just the shoulder chest area. When Vorachk turned up ice he kept his head down and chin tucked. Kronwall went to make a hit on the body, never extended upward never raised his arms, never extended up ward at any point. Kronwall made a body contact check the problem was Vorachk was leading with his head. If vorachk was smart enough to pick up his head this wouldn't even be a discussion.

At the end of the day the difference is one main thing. If you are trying to hit the chest or shoulder and a player puts him self in a vulnerable spot moments before contact is made the Hitter is not at fault. The other main difference would be the player has an opportunity to make a play on the body but instead targets the head. Kronwall was placing his check right at Vorachks chest and if his head was up thats exactly where the hit would be. Just cause you have your head buried down doesn't give you a free pass not to be hit. The puck carrier has responsibility to protect him self and not skate with his head down leading with it first. This is why vorachk HIMSELF has admitted it was HIS FAULT he got hit in the head, and that the hit was clean.

Fans need to understand Head Contact isnt illegal, Purposely targeting the head when there are other options are.

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03-07-2012, 04:48 PM
  #110
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Are you aware that prior to this season, they made an adjustment to rule 48 for hits to the head? It's absolutely legal in 2012. It's a fresh new rule

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03-07-2012, 04:50 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giraffywaffy View Post
Are you aware that prior to this season, they made an adjustment to rule 48 for hits to the head? It's absolutely legal in 2012. It's a fresh new rule
Which adjustment made headshotting unsuspecting players when there is enough time to choose other ways to hit legal?

I don't know what you expect to accomplish coming into our forum after this hit. I know I wouldn't bother defending one of our players if they laid that hit. It runs contrary to everything the NHL has been trying to accomplish, and has only confused the whole situation even more.

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03-07-2012, 04:52 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by giraffywaffy View Post
Are you aware that prior to this season, they made an adjustment to rule 48 for hits to the head? It's absolutely legal in 2012. It's a fresh new rule
48.1 Illegal Check to the Head A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

This is straight off the NHL site. There will always be instances where the Head is the PPOC and its a clean, legal hit. This is one of them.

Vorachk was looking behind and turned up ice with his head down right before contact... please note once again.

However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

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03-07-2012, 04:53 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Which adjustment made headshotting unsuspecting players when there is enough time to choose other ways to hit legal?
There was not enough time. When Kronwall made the decision to step up the ice, Voracek had his shoulder up, body toward the boards, stick to the boards and puck to his side. He made a movement upward and exposed himself.

It really happened very quickly when Voracek decided to push up the ice. IMO, this was immediately prior to contact.

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03-07-2012, 04:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Which adjustment made headshotting unsuspecting players when there is enough time to choose other ways to hit legal?

I don't know what you expect to accomplish coming into our forum after this hit. I know I wouldn't bother defending one of our players if they laid that hit. It runs contrary to everything the NHL has been trying to accomplish, and has only confused the whole situation even more.
okay what else was Kronwall to do besides completely just bail on the play all together? This is hockey not figure skating so please. What is Kronwall supposed to do.


Quote:
The hit was clean in 2010 and before. In 2012, it's not...unless the NHL has decided to call a mulligan on their whole "headshot" thing. I'm sorry, but you have to realize that your player is to blame.
The best part is we don't because your player already came out and admitted it was "His Own Fault"

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03-07-2012, 04:55 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by crashnburnluder View Post
okay what else was Kronwall to do besides completely just bail on the play all together? This is hockey not figure skating so please. What is Kronwall supposed to do.




The best part is we don't because your player already came out and admitted it was "His Own Fault"
Have you heard of hip checks, stick checks, or angling a guy into the boards? There ARE options besides "shoulder to head."

As for Voracek's statement...like I said. That's is the attitude the NHL has just spent two years trying to adjust. Responsibility lies with the hitter there now. That's what the NHL had been working towards. They've just undone all of that, and wasted a lot of people's time.

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03-07-2012, 04:56 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by giraffywaffy View Post
There was not enough time. When Kronwall made the decision to step up the ice, Voracek had his shoulder up, body toward the boards, stick to the boards and puck to his side. He made a movement upward and exposed himself.

It really happened very quickly when Voracek decided to push up the ice. IMO, this was immediately prior to contact.

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Great post

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03-07-2012, 04:59 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giraffywaffy View Post
There was not enough time. When Kronwall made the decision to step up the ice, Voracek had his shoulder up, body toward the boards, stick to the boards and puck to his side. He made a movement upward and exposed himself.

It really happened very quickly when Voracek decided to push up the ice. IMO, this was immediately prior to contact.

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This video suggests otherwise:



Kronwall had more than enough time to see what Voracek was doing and what his situation was, and he hit him anyways. Seriously; we spent two years listening to the media and league preach about high hits. This is a textbook example of a hit they wanted to get rid of.

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03-07-2012, 04:59 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Have you heard of hip checks, stick checks, or angling a guy into the boards? There ARE options besides "shoulder to head."

As for Voracek's statement...like I said. That's is the attitude the NHL has just spent two years trying to adjust.
Angle a guy who you are skating right at and he is skating directly at you. Good call.

Stick check, try to stick check a guy and risk missing the puck and him going down 2-1 or a break away. once again Good Call

Hip check. With Vorachk that crouched over would end up having kronwall having to get to low and clipping the knees.

Please keep in mind. if you actually watched the link above and for the tenth time The rule CLEARY states if the player puts him self in a vulnerable position right before the hit then it is a clean hit which is cleary the situation here. Kronwall was going for his head he never targeted his head. Vorachk turned into him. Case Closed.

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03-07-2012, 04:59 PM
  #119
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48.1 Illegal Check to the Head A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

This is straight off the NHL site. There will always be instances where the Head is the PPOC and its a clean, legal hit. This is one of them.

Vorachk was looking behind and turned up ice with his head down right before contact... please note once again.

However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.
"Immediately prior." Nope. This wasn't Letang-Nystrom.

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03-07-2012, 05:01 PM
  #120
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Oh well. Agree to disagree. I'll end it here, but as it stands, it's been deemed a clean hit and will be treated as such

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03-07-2012, 05:03 PM
  #121
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Oh well. Agree to disagree. I'll end it here, but as it stands, it's been deemed a clean hit and will be treated as such
I mean, if the league essentially overturns two years of putting more responsibility on the hitter and less on the guy getting hit and keeps it consistent from here on out, I'm fine with it. I'm just extremely annoyed because this runs contrary to what they've said they're trying to accomplish.

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03-07-2012, 05:04 PM
  #122
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Oh well. Agree to disagree. I'll end it here, but as it stands, it's been deemed a clean hit and will be treated as such
It shouldn't have been. If there was 100% agreement on that, we wouldn't be talking about this.

Kronwall has a history of timing his hits to go exactly for this kind of devastating impact to the head of a vulnerable player. I thought that's what the NHL has been saying they wanted to get rid of. Oh well.

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03-07-2012, 05:08 PM
  #123
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I guess they're not because it's a clean hit and it's being promoted on their website as a clean hit.

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03-07-2012, 05:09 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
This is a textbook example of a hit they wanted to get rid of.
except that it's not. If it was, he would have been suspended.

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03-07-2012, 05:10 PM
  #125
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I guess they're not because it's a clean hit and it's being promoted on their website as a clean hit.
Shame on hypocrites.

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