HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Your nightmare

View Poll Results: YOUR NIGHTMARE
RC starts doing media scrums in French 3 1.81%
PG given 3 year extension 68 40.96%
Markov blows knee after start of 2012 season 36 21.69%
Gomez starts 2012 season with the Habs 22 13.25%
At Draft, Habs to pick, Bettman announces a trade 37 22.29%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-08-2012, 07:49 AM
  #51
WhiskeySeven
Keeps hot stuff hot
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I appreciate the fact that some Habs fans tried to point this guy in the right direction regarding Sherman and the Avs but he seems to be a lost cause. Wow.
Also re:Fletcher.

This isn't a comprehensive list. I was merely pointing out GMs who've made riskier moves than Guarhier and whose teams have had less or far less success than the Habs under Gauther.

If you dont think Varlamov or Heatley trades would be ripped apart in Montreal you're missing few screws.

IIRC of the teams and GMs I mentioned, not one has had more PO appearances or PO wins than Gauthier. And I'm pretty sure they have finished lower and drafted higher than Gauthier almost every time.

Hence my argument.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 08:09 AM
  #52
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Ok then, let's be fair.

What objective and subjective criteria do you want to judge Gauthier's reign over other GMs?

Overall points? Playoff rounds won? Consecutive playoff berths? NHLers developed? Or the amount of times he says mister and the volume of red meat he consumes?

If you're going to give SHERMAN, the guy whose team has been tanking and flailing around for years, the guy who traded a 1st and a 2nd for VARLAMOV (unproven goalie, not elite) a pass. Or give credit to Snow for PA Parenteau and Moulson but not Gauthier any credit for Diaz, Emelin and Cole. Or not even address the other GMs I listed...

I'm just going to assume you're not serious about having an analytic discussion and would prefer to just stick to your own made-up reality.

If the magnifying glass wasn't constantly hovering over Montreal, you'd all see that he's been doing a fine job big-picture wise. He could be SO MUCH BETTER but until the 6m dollar #1 d-man issue is resolved, and Gomez is dumped off his hands are (were) tied.

Brian Burke traded Seguin, Knight and Hamilton for ****ing Phil Kessel. Gauther hasn't done any move nearly are ridiculous as that. Burke resigned Grabovski, who's never broken 60 points, to a 5.5m dollar FIVE YEAR CONTRACT. Burke's team has never made the playoffs, Gauthier will have missed the playoffs for the first time this year.

If you're serious, I'll be serious but until then I'm going to assume you're just like Habaneros.



You can't say that GM X, Y and Z have external influences but our GM doesn't. It won't work that way. Montreal has tons of external factors, among them: the spinster media, the taxes, the snowball effect of media attention and GMs protecting their players, etc etc.

So no, you can't waive off terrible GMs because of their "ownership issues". So what, everybody has problems. And this is the first time I've heard of Calgary having issues, so... source?

Your M.O. is set, we all know it. You'll judge a GM by his ability to tank hard, pick up super-duper-stars and then add to the core and win the cup. I'm not going to judge a GM on those factors because it's out-to-lunch.

That said:

Yzerman - Him and Gauthier have been around for almost the same amount of time. So if he's too new to judge, so is Goat. He's going to miss the playoffs for the first time, so is Goat. He sold off assets, so did Goat. He has legitimate all-star, superstar talent in Stamkos and MSL, Gauthier doesn't. Price is an all-star, but that's the extent of it.

Poile - as I initially pointed out, depends on this year's playoff success on everything. Suter might leave if they bomb out of the playoffs, and he'll have traded two 2nds and a 1st for what'll amount to nothing (if they bomb out in the first round) and he'll have nothing to show for it at all since Gill is super old even if he re-signs and AKost... well we'll see what happens with him.

That aside, if it works out and they get to the WCF, more power to him. I don't think they have the experience or the firepower but anything can happen. His deals for Rinne, Legwand and Erat disgust me however. Rinne is an unproven goaltender in the playoffs and he flat out sucked against Detroit in that one series - he's not worth 7/49 no matter how you cut it.

Feaster - Calgary has nothing going for them, today or next season or the one after that. He's patchwork fixing them over and over. He inherited this team though so I guess he'll need some time to manouever. So far, I haven't been impressed. No matter what you think of the MTL return for the Cammy deal, picking up a non-performing 6m 'sniper' for two more years is mighty risky.

Brian Burke - Enough's been said. He's done a terrible job and he's missed the playoffs every year. He hasn't found a goaltender. His "star" draft picks, Schenn and Kadri have been disappointing in their own regards - Schenn is even trade bait now. His FA signing have all busted except for Macarthur. His resigning of Grabovski only goes to show that he has no idea how to fix it, he might have a plan but cannot come to fix it whatsoever. The Kessel deal will only get worse from now on as Seguin is getting better and the other two prospects make it to the league.

Fletcher - I'm not sure how long he's been a GM but his organization got a lot of heat for Burns' injury. Trading for Heatley is like trading for Gomez, Heatley's lost his mojo and it shows in a bad way. He didn't do his pro-scouting and he hasn't been able to do much of anything.

Tambellini - Your beloved tank-strategy is showing.

Howson - Howson's actually tried to make moves, his team looked fine on paper. Damn shame, the fans deserve better but as I've been saying - he's been way worse than Gauthier. Goat's biggest risk was re-signing a prized asset, Howson traded Voracek and a top10 first for a mid-table 1st and Jack "-∞" Johnson.

Neiwendyke - I think he's done an absolutely terrible job. Goligoski's contract is plain stupid, and giving up Neal AND Niskanen for Gogo is even worse. He didn't replace B.Richards or get any assets for him (you know, that thing where everyone complains that Gainey/Goat didn't do for old farts like Kovalev and Koivu). Terrible job.

Lombardi - He's had how much time to assemble his team? How many times did he embarrass himself this off-season - getting into a stupid PR nightmare debate with his star d-man and eventually bending over anyway. Never addressed his team's need properly, and went off the wall with how many 1st rounders? Failed on how many FA signings? Oh yeah AND they've tanked to boot.

Rutheford - Terrible contracts, terrible everything. He disassembled a cup-winning team piece by piece.

The rest of the league's GMs are all over the place, is Sather a good GM or a terrible one? We'll see next season, but until now they've had less success than us in the POs, less PO appearances, and terrible, terrible contracts. Gillis assembled a good team in Vancouver and is constantly helping it, picking up Higgins and Lapierre was an astute move that an otherwise cowardly GM wouldn't pull. Holland in Detroit is like Ferguson in ManU. Wilson in San Jose has done almost everything he could, I give him tons of credit too. Holmgren is far too aggressive for my liking, and so is Tallon but hey one of them almost won a cup and the other built everything of that team that won. Shero has assembled the most magical team in the league, more than the sum of its parts and he deserves all the praise even though I hate the Pens.

What does this go to show? That GMs aren't in control of everything, it can literally fall down to a single bounce of a puck. Some moves look bad but if you win a cup it's all worth it, some moves are bad but you deal with it, some GMs make the best moves and nothing comes of it.

I like Goat's moves and non-moves, I want to see him have a legitimate coach, and a chance to get rid of Gomez before I send him to pasture. Everything other than this season has been ABSOLUTELY TO MY LIKING. It was Gainey that ****ed everything up (unfortunately) not Gauthier.

And you know what? If Goat ends up doing much of nothing next season, I'll be at the head of the picket line clamoring for his head. Until then, I think organizational stability is severely underrated among the kids here.

edit: And you know what? The one's who have teams that are in the PO picture are only just making it. The same thing you supposedly hate, squeezing into the playoffs, that's what the Kings are doing.
Well done. Calling for Goat's head is absurd. He's had barely 2 years, and inherited a mess.

Not covering for Markov is his only bad mistake so far. Cammy trade? Wow. Love that 35th pick in 2013, Holland so far, and 3 mill in cap space.

Ridiculous calling for his head. Give him one more draft, one summer to torch Gomez, one more season, one more trade deadline. Then we can judge. If he fails, fire his ass next summer, fine.

Meanwhile, put the word out quietly to selected persons that Goats has one year, and Habs will be possibly be interviewing in spring 2013. That's called stability.

Clueless people here, honestly. All GM's need min 3 years to show their mark. Preferably 4-5.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 08:25 AM
  #53
Slew Foots
Haters gonna hate
 
Slew Foots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Well done. Calling for Goat's head is absurd. He's had barely 2 years, and inherited a mess.

Not covering for Markov is his only bad mistake so far. Cammy trade? Wow. Love that 35th pick in 2013, Holland so far, and 3 mill in cap space.

Ridiculous calling for his head. Give him one more draft, one summer to torch Gomez, one more season, one more trade deadline. Then we can judge. If he fails, fire his ass next summer, fine.

Meanwhile, put the word out quietly to selected persons that Goats has one year, and Habs will be possibly be interviewing in spring 2013. That's called stability.

Clueless people here, honestly. All GM's need min 3 years to show their mark. Preferably 4-5.
Goat may have only had 2 years as GM, but he's been Gainey's right-hand man before then, heading the team's abysmal pro scouting. I'm sorry, but trading for Gomez doesn't only fall on Gainey. Gauthier has to be held at least somewhat accountable for that. Also, we've lost too many good assets for nothing the past few years. Poor asset management like this can't continue. Gauthier has to be held accountable for those failures - it's not like he just joined the organization 2 years ago! He had a prominent role in this debacle prior to the passing of the mantle from Gainey.

The team needs a clean break from both Gainey and Gauthier, and they need to hire people who can build a solid player development organization from scratch.

Edit - Another point I'd like to add: yes the Habs have made the playoffs, contrary to some of those other GMs mentioned by WhiskeySeven. However, our superior drafting record is a huge reason why Gainey, and later Gauthier, had a plethora of young & promising NHL talent to work with. A more savvy GM would have easily turned the Habs into a perennial contender with such drafting.

Slew Foots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 09:20 AM
  #54
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,276
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Ok then, let's be fair.

What objective and subjective criteria do you want to judge Gauthier's reign over other GMs?

Overall points? Playoff rounds won? Consecutive playoff berths? NHLers developed? Or the amount of times he says mister and the volume of red meat he consumes?

If you're going to give SHERMAN, the guy whose team has been tanking and flailing around for years, the guy who traded a 1st and a 2nd for VARLAMOV (unproven goalie, not elite) a pass. Or give credit to Snow for PA Parenteau and Moulson but not Gauthier any credit for Diaz, Emelin and Cole. Or not even address the other GMs I listed...

I'm just going to assume you're not serious about having an analytic discussion and would prefer to just stick to your own made-up reality.

If the magnifying glass wasn't constantly hovering over Montreal, you'd all see that he's been doing a fine job big-picture wise. He could be SO MUCH BETTER but until the 6m dollar #1 d-man issue is resolved, and Gomez is dumped off his hands are (were) tied.

Brian Burke traded Seguin, Knight and Hamilton for ****ing Phil Kessel. Gauther hasn't done any move nearly are ridiculous as that. Burke resigned Grabovski, who's never broken 60 points, to a 5.5m dollar FIVE YEAR CONTRACT. Burke's team has never made the playoffs, Gauthier will have missed the playoffs for the first time this year.

If you're serious, I'll be serious but until then I'm going to assume you're just like Habaneros.
What criteria would you suggest I give for wanting change? I still can't believe you'd put Poile on that list. It shows you aren't looking at the big picture you're mentioning we look at Gauthier with. Suter and Weber don't want to re-sign yet. He's obviously trying to show that they are serious about winning to sign them. Imagine running a team where no one wants to re-sign, no UFA wants to sign, and you can't spend to the cap. He traded picks because there's a chance this backfires and low picks in a weak draft has a lower risk than giving up good prospects. If he loses Suter/Weber he'll still have his plethora of prospects to continue being a good team. Rinne had to be re-signed no matter what. It's ridiculous to think he's a bad GM for that. It's hard to take a discussion seriously when you say you'd even consider taking Gauthier over Poile. I'm seriously insulted on his behalf.

We've had the same people in upper management running things for almost a decade and we're currently 28th in the NHL with a prospect pool that isn't nearly as deep as it used to be and the team's improvement is heavily dependent on getting healthy. We already blew up the team after a terrible 08/09 season. I think it's only fair that we do the same with upper management in 11/12. I'd be more than willing to give Gauthier more time if this was his 3rd season with the Habs...but it isn't. Fact remains, he was a key part of upper management holding two pretty big roles as Director of Professional Scouting and Assistant General Manager. I think both Gainey and Gauthier have had a long enough tenures. Time for new faces and new direction. I'm glad Gauthier managed to at least add a few 2nd rounders, that's the first time in his tenure I saw him show a little direction. Emelin is a Habs pick not a UFA.

Not sure how you can compare Cole to Moulson and Parenteau as he's a proven veteran player that got a good deal of money to be lured here like most NHL UFAs have. I give Gauthier full credit for getting Cole. I didn't mention 'ability to sign name UFA' because I know that is a downside to being GM of Montreal is overpaying. Diaz is closer to them but you have to admit that he hasn't proven to being their level. I hope he is as good. Some of the minor positives brought up for Gauthier you seem to dismiss for other GM. If re-signing is somehow a positive Snow has managed to put his core in bargain contracts. Hate on Sherman for the Varlamov deal, but he's the one laughing right now. I thought he was an idiot for that move, but as time goes one he's looking like a genius. Says a lot that that's the move you bring up to show he's worse than Gauthier haha.

I didn't go through all of them because it's hard to debate for and against when we go to the worst GM list since they all aren't that good and arguably deserve to be fired too. I specifically pointed out Sherman and Snow because I felt you were seriously off base with them. Lombardi has managed to build a team with a strong prospect pool and good upper NHL talent. His coaching hires make no sense. One thing is for sure though, whoever replaces him will have a lot to work with whether you want to admit it or not. He's build a good base. Yzeman has been GM for less than 2 seasons and already has as much playoff success as Gauthier. He is rebuilding the prospect pool and hasn't done anything worse than what Gauthier has. He already has an offensive core in place gifted to him, we'll see how he does building a D and G core this summer. Rutheford is in the same situation as Poile. Built a cup winning team and made the conference finals the year before Gauthier did. What terrible contracts? I really hope you don't mean Kaberle...Nieuwendyk has messed up ownership. Brad Richards would waive NTC and he was under pressure to make playoffs. Stole Lehtonen. If Cole is a good move for Gauthier, why ignore Ryder and Souray. Stars are also 3rd in the West.

Feaster, Tambellini, Howson, Burke, and Fletcher I wouldn't want them as GM. Burke a better trading GM than most (even with the Kessel deal) but his ego and stubbornness detracts a lot from his good.

This season is a perfect opportunity for change. Seems to me you're judging a GM by whether he makes any retarded moves rather than the direction he's going. I rather let go of this management too early than too late (ie. after he makes a retarded move like Gomez...which he happened to be part of). I don't like the direction we're going and I don't want to have another team this bad. If these guys **** this up in the next couple of seasons we are going to be in trouble for a long time.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 03-08-2012 at 09:26 AM.
Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 09:32 AM
  #55
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,628
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Jesus Christ LG, you can't say he's bottom of the barrel when I just went over TEN GMs who have made objectively worse (potentially worse, in Polie's case) moves than him. That's not including Holmgren either.

I want a cup too, I think it's more likely to come from organizational stability than from blowing it up every 3 years. I did mention the "best" GMs and it really comes down to luck and vision. Since the lockout only DET and PEN came close to winning the cup twice and they are both from the extremes of the team-building spectrum.

I don't want a team built on ELCs that'll dismantle. Nor a team that's rag-tag and full of mercenaries like the Panthers this year.

It's not about Gauthier, I don't know ANYTHING about the guy, I just see the direction and motivation and I like it.

Gainey's tenure explicitly stated that they wanted to join the elite teams of the league, the ones that regularly make the playoffs and have a prospect pipeline and attract FAs. I love that idea, I absolutely believe in it. I'd rather have an organization like SJS than Anaheim. I want the Habs to be a playoff lock every year, for ******** pundits like Dreger say that they're the "beast of the East" kinda thing.

Tanking, selling off Gorges/Pleks/DD/Cole to get a potential superstar like McKinnon doesn't guarantee anything and it's a terrifying idea. Firing a steady, patient GM (historically, GMs with a longer tenure give better results) for a doofus like Pierre McGuire is terrifying. Ruining whatever reputation we have among the league in an attempt to bottom out is terrifying. That "dirty diving smurfs" rep that was obviously false really made us look bad - imaging how much worse it'd be if we were "that ****** team that no one wants and has language issues to boot"? Oh wait, I remember. It was ten years ago and it was the worst time to be a ****ing fan. I don't want that ever again, no one does.

This year sucks, and it sucks mighty fierce. JM was boring but Cunneyworth really ****ed things up too. Goat's probably going to get replaced but I don't think it merits a replacement, he hasn't had much time to flexibility in his 2.5 years and whateve he has done seem reasonable and intelligent. Yes, even trading for Kraperle is reasonable. If you disagree, well... tough.

Also, lumping four different GM eras together to make a weak point like "we haven't contended in 20 years!!" is annoying and false and I wish you'd stop doing that.
Dude, I could sit here and debate you on a GM by GM basis... you're not going to listen anyway. And... it doesn't matter. I have no desire to sit here and debate Gauthier vs. Tambellini... it's a meaningless discussion. Gauthier IS bottom of the barrel. Is he the absolute bottom? Maybe not, but he's not good.

If I'm going to talk about Steven Stamkos do you think I'm going to list the worst centers in the NHL to compare him too? No, of course not. Why? Because it's a wasted exercise. Nobody cares about the worst centers in the league. If I'm going to compare Stamkos, it's going to be against the BEST centers in the game. That's what we should be doing with Gauthier. How does he stack up against the best? He's a joke.

As for stability... that's great. Everyone wants this. But we need to START by having a GM with vision and a plan. He's not the guy and he's clearly demonstrated this.

You analyze his moves from a micro level without ever taking a step back and looking at the big picture. Is Kaberle a better player than Spacek? Sure he is... but that's not saying much. And he does NOTHING for us in the long run except tie us to his stupid contract and we waste a trade asset on him. You aren't willing or capable of this kind of analysis though.

You start from a position of defense and then do whatever you can to defend him. That's not analysis, it's tunnel vision and Kool-Aid drinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I have no personal stock in Goat. I don't know him and I don't particularly like him.

I like his vision, and people like you will clamor "WHAT VISION???" but I like what I see. He was handcuffed with Jacques Martin, a veteran coach who wanted what he wanted and now JM is gone.

Let's see what he does with a coach he actually hires, and with Gomez finally being able to be sent down or bought-out He's drafted well and attracted pretty well-regarded hockey talent (Boucher, Cunney and Ladoucer were all very hyped). Subban became a star under his reign too, for the record. He trusted DD to give him a shot in the NHL and turned him into an asset (at the least), picked out Diaz from nowhere, brought Emelin over, signed Cole and drafted some very highly regarded prospects.

They'll all graduate this year to the AHL and if Goat get fired the next GM will get all the credit.
How was he handcuffed by Martin? If he didn't like him, he could replace him. I mean what the hell was he doing when he fired Perry Pearn? He's the freaking GM dude. If he felt that he wasn't right for the job (which I highly doubt) then he replaces him.

You like his vision? And to support this you say he was handcuffed by Martin. Well wtf was he thinking with who he eventually replaced him with????? Subban wasn't his pick and doesn't deserve credit for him. And our prospects in the AHL mostly weren't picked by him either. Why the hell should he be given credit for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It's "whatever you do, you're doing it wrong and it's not tough/french enough."

How can a publication claim that a team's being run like the KGB when that very publication is the root of the team's apprehension? To use a crass analogy, it's like a rapist bumping into his victim some weeks later and being offended that she's carrying a ****-whistle.

Remember the "darkest day" stuff? We mock it now but the organization was rightfully furious. If the Kostitsyn's and Hamrlik's agents were worth any penny they would've torn the Habs brass a new ******* for allowing 3rd party media to essentially tip-toe the line on libel/slander of their clients.

I guess I just like supporting the unfairly hated upon, until this season I had no opinion or posts about Gauthier but after all these lunatics crept out of the woodwork on HF I guess I just assumed the role.
Nobody hates Gauthier... (at least I don't) he's just not a good GM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
At what point will you realize you are wasting your time? They hate Gauthier, not his moves or anything he has done but him, so until you can convince them that Gauthier isn't Gauthier, they won't hear anything you are saying.
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I know nothing of the man and I have no personal dislike for him. I care about cups, that's it. Going into this year I said we should wait and see what he can do. Many other folks were on the 'fire Gauthier' bandwagon long before I was. Obviously they were able to foresee what was coming better than I was.

Sideshows with coaches, no progression, last place finish and all the while making sideways moves and wasting trading assets. It's been a carnival all season long. It's convenient for you to try to make it something personal. By doing this you simply dismiss the criticisms as being irrational.

There's nothing irrational about wanting this guy replaced. He's demonstrated little ability to lead us anywhere. It would be one thing to be in last place and making trades for the future. But when you're doing this and sticking us with guys like Kaberle and wasting assets then you need to get canned. The coaching fiascos, the ridiculous Cammaleri trade, choking the life out of Kosti's value before trading him... he needs to be accountable for this. I can forgive the last place finish. I can't forgive what he's done on our way there. He richly deserves a firing and I hope that's exactly what he gets.

And get this through your skull... I hope he gets fired because I love the team and want to see REAL success, not because of any personal vendetta I have against this guy or anyone else. He's a bad GM and we deserve better.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 09:41 AM
  #56
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,270
vCash: 500
We get a top-four pick, then go off board and draft a 5'9" high school defenceman from Minnesota.

JLP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 09:47 AM
  #57
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,628
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Well done. Calling for Goat's head is absurd. He's had barely 2 years, and inherited a mess.

Not covering for Markov is his only bad mistake so far. Cammy trade? Wow. Love that 35th pick in 2013, Holland so far, and 3 mill in cap space.

Ridiculous calling for his head. Give him one more draft, one summer to torch Gomez, one more season, one more trade deadline. Then we can judge. If he fails, fire his ass next summer, fine.

Meanwhile, put the word out quietly to selected persons that Goats has one year, and Habs will be possibly be interviewing in spring 2013. That's called stability.

Clueless people here, honestly. All GM's need min 3 years to show their mark. Preferably 4-5.
I really don't get why we need to see another year from this guy. We've seen everything we need to see. The club starts sinking, he makes knee jerk reaction moves that screw us for the long term. He makes a really bad decision on the coach and then throws him under the bus.

The Cammy trade? That 2nd was window dressing to disguise the sideways move and fact that we were getting the lesser player out of the deal and a longer contract to boot. This was a panic move made with designs on 8th place. The fact that it was done in the middle of a game less than 24 hours after Cammy's comments and while Bourque was STILL unders suspension reinforces this. And I absolutely loved the comment about how PG suddenly realized that we needed size... just hilarious.

How many times do you need to get burnt before you realize that the oven is hot? I haven't even mentioned PG's tenure as assistant GM but that bares mentioning as well.

It's time to turn the page on this sad chapter of our franchise. New blood is sorely needed and we need to adopt a new philosophy designed with long term success. If it doesn't include the "classic rebuild" that I've advocated... fine. But do something to win a cup. Trade our top picks and get top players. Find a way to get UFAs to come here. It's not the way I'd try to win but at least there'd be something there.

Consistently finishing 8th and drafting middle of the pack just flat out isn't working. We need somebody with a direction and a plan. Even if that plan isn't one that I've supported I still feel we need change. The path we've chosen was the wrong one and it's time to go a new route. That only happens with new leadership.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 10:36 AM
  #58
niftymove
Registered User
 
niftymove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 350
vCash: 500
The most amusing poll I ever saw on this forum! lol

But I stay confused! I would have taken all those choices!

niftymove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 10:49 AM
  #59
ReVeuF
Registered User
 
ReVeuF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Well done. Calling for Goat's head is absurd. He's had barely 2 years, and inherited a mess.

Not covering for Markov is his only bad mistake so far. Cammy trade? Wow. Love that 35th pick in 2013, Holland so far, and 3 mill in cap space.

Ridiculous calling for his head. Give him one more draft, one summer to torch Gomez, one more season, one more trade deadline. Then we can judge. If he fails, fire his ass next summer, fine.

Meanwhile, put the word out quietly to selected persons that Goats has one year, and Habs will be possibly be interviewing in spring 2013. That's called stability.

Clueless people here, honestly. All GM's need min 3 years to show their mark. Preferably 4-5.
Wrong, Gauthier / Gainey were there for longer than 2 years, they just swap position !

Need both gone end of story, when they did the swap two years ago I knew nothing would change ! Time to end this country club !!!!


Last edited by ReVeuF: 03-08-2012 at 10:56 AM.
ReVeuF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 11:08 AM
  #60
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Not sure how you can compare Cole to Moulson and Parenteau as he's a proven veteran player that got a good deal of money to be lured here like most NHL UFAs have. I give Gauthier full credit for getting Cole. I didn't mention 'ability to sign name UFA' because I know that is a downside to being GM of Montreal is overpaying. Diaz is closer to them but you have to admit that he hasn't proven to being their level. I hope he is as good. Some of the minor positives brought up for Gauthier you seem to dismiss for other GM. If re-signing is somehow a positive Snow has managed to put his core in bargain contracts. Hate on Sherman for the Varlamov deal, but he's the one laughing right now. I thought he was an idiot for that move, but as time goes one he's looking like a genius. Says a lot that that's the move you bring up to show he's worse than Gauthier haha.
I like the Cole signing but I think Gauthier signed Cole to salvage the Gomez/Gionta line, which to me was something Gauthier should of just given up on.

It was only because Martin didn't like Cole at the start of the season and sent him to the doghouse that he hooked up with DD and Max.

Frozenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 11:10 AM
  #61
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
U better prepare yourself because it's a very real possibility. With all the setbacks he's had and the fact that it's a reoccurring issue makes it foregone conclusion in my mind.
Yeah, I know. Sigh. I put in the poll the nightmare being knee goes after start of season because if it happens in the remainder of this season, then at least we have the summer to figure things out. If its after the season starts then we scramble, again, and there will be no UFAs of any quality availible.

yianik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 11:34 AM
  #62
DenverHabsFan
Registered User
 
DenverHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 1,327
vCash: 500
My nightmare scenario is actually quite probable: we get 2nd or 3rd pick and figure out a way to draft the only guy that never makes it as a regular in the NHL. Then we curse the fact that 4 out of the first 10 picks start the season and have an immediate impact on their team.

The pressure on Timmins this year will be enormous with such a high pick. I hope they are having daily meetings and have guys watching games all over the place. They also need to meet and interview all top-ranked kids and make sure they have the stuff to handle the pressure here. Kills me to know JM is scouting.

DenverHabsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 11:35 AM
  #63
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,185
vCash: 500
My worst dream is that the way the Habs are built will continue.

All the people involved are window dressing... the problem is the structure and flow of player development, pro player procurement and philosophy of play.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #64
LouisJCloutier
Registered User
 
LouisJCloutier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gaspésie
Country: Canada
Posts: 715
vCash: 500
All those answers ?

I chose Markov over all the other option. We need him more then ever. I really hope he can return with full health and be the same as before. We wouldn't be 15th in the East if he was on the lineup at the start of the season.

LouisJCloutier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 11:42 AM
  #65
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,289
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
My worst dream right now is winning against Edmonton tonight.

WeThreeKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 11:45 AM
  #66
JohnLennon
Registered User
 
JohnLennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,933
vCash: 500
None of those choices are really that awful. I'd say the worst one would be PG getting a three-year extension, and I don't necessarily think he has done an awful job. What would be bad about Cunney doing interviews in French?

Markov has had his knee out for the better part of two years, that wouldn't be all that awful. Gomez is a fine second to third liner, he is just overpaid. So it wouldn't be a huge deal if he played for the Habs next season as long as it didn't restrict us over the offseason from doing what we want.

As for the trade at the draft, who is to say it wouldn't be a good trade for the Habs? I fail to see how that would be a bad thing.

I think the worst thing that could happen would be if a key player like Subban, Pacioretty or Price were to suffer a major injury during the offseason or early pre-season. That would truly be a nightmare, at least for me.

JohnLennon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 11:46 AM
  #67
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Well done. Calling for Goat's head is absurd. He's had barely 2 years, and inherited a mess.

Not covering for Markov is his only bad mistake so far. Cammy trade? Wow. Love that 35th pick in 2013, Holland so far, and 3 mill in cap space.

Ridiculous calling for his head. Give him one more draft, one summer to torch Gomez, one more season, one more trade deadline. Then we can judge. If he fails, fire his ass next summer, fine.

Meanwhile, put the word out quietly to selected persons that Goats has one year, and Habs will be possibly be interviewing in spring 2013. That's called stability.

Clueless people here, honestly. All GM's need min 3 years to show their mark. Preferably 4-5.
With all due respect Gauthier has left his mark on the Habs like Francesco Schettino left his mark on the Costa Concordia. This organization has a 50 metre gash in the hull.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 01:39 PM
  #68
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
None of those choices are really that awful. I'd say the worst one would be PG getting a three-year extension, and I don't necessarily think he has done an awful job. What would be bad about Cunney doing interviews in French?

Markov has had his knee out for the better part of two years, that wouldn't be all that awful. Gomez is a fine second to third liner, he is just overpaid. So it wouldn't be a huge deal if he played for the Habs next season as long as it didn't restrict us over the offseason from doing what we want.

As for the trade at the draft, who is to say it wouldn't be a good trade for the Habs? I fail to see how that would be a bad thing.

I think the worst thing that could happen would be if a key player like Subban, Pacioretty or Price were to suffer a major injury during the offseason or early pre-season. That would truly be a nightmare, at least for me.
Like I said, I tried to put in the poll generally the most popular concerns I was seeing on the Boards ( forgot to include a winning streak ) and one was RC remaining as coach. Given that RC will be out due to his lack of speaking French, I imply that he has learned French with the implication that because he has learned French he may not be out as coach.

yianik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 01:56 PM
  #69
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
My worst dream is that the way the Habs are built will continue.

All the people involved are window dressing... the problem is the structure and flow of player development, pro player procurement and philosophy of play.
Shouldnt you be happy about it ? I mean... we'Ll get a top pick... and if PG stays, more top picks...

ECWHSWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:12 PM
  #70
sharks9
Registered User
 
sharks9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,077
vCash: 500
A tie between the Gomez and Markov ones for me. I can't fathom a reason why Gomez would be allowed to stay in the NHL and to have Markov suffer ANOTHER injury would be devastating.

sharks9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:16 PM
  #71
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
A tie between the Gomez and Markov ones for me. I can't fathom a reason why Gomez would be allowed to stay in the NHL and to have Markov suffer ANOTHER injury would be devastating.
Gomez HAS to stay till his contract is over if we went more top picks

ECWHSWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #72
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Gomez HAS to stay till his contract is over if we want more top picks
typo

ECWHSWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:22 PM
  #73
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,230
vCash: 500
I voted for the Markov knee scenario since I think all our success and failure stems from him with a domino effect.

The two other things that are tied are:
- us messing up the remaining 15 games or so and winning enough to put us out of the top 5. We really should be top 3, but I know we're going to win a bunch of the remaining. If this bad season already lost can't reap a golden chance, just like it has for countless teams, then it will truly be a failure. The leafs were in such a golden position and look what they did (fine Kessel scores, but it was still a horrible horrible move and if it wasn't the bruins they traded with, would be my favourite NHL move in recent history).

- Trading/undervaluing Plekanec

habtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:27 PM
  #74
Issacar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Imo, I'm already expecting those choices to unveil next season.

All the frenc in the world won,t save RC. And yet I wouldn't be surprised if they kept him around.

Last time we signed someone to a 3 year deal in the management, the ywere fired next season. It doesn't matter whether Gauthier has a 3 year extension or not.

Markov knee will blow out.

We might have something worthhwile for our first pick, but I wouldn,t be surprised if we traded it for Iginla.

Issacar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 06:45 PM
  #75
j52
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 279
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
We get a top-four pick, then go off board and draft a 5'9" high school defenceman from Minnesota.
And then they use the second round pick on a 6'5" goalie who prefers ponies to playoffs.

j52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.