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Does Brad Richards need to redeem himself? (All Richards discussion)

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Old
03-08-2012, 12:43 PM
  #51
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Statistically, Gaborik's line mates, are 2nd liners. Stepans on pace for 55 points, Anisimov likely on pace for less. Yet, Gaborik has showed up.

It's not an excuse. That's why I wanted Nash. Not because Richards necessarily needs the talent on his line to produce, but because adding someone of that caliber would motivate Richards to step his game up. The last thing I want is Richard's salary to become a waste on the cap. He's a big investment. Having another Canadian who's familiar with the way Richards plays and can have instant chemistry would have done wonders for Brad.

Let's hope Kreider becomes that missing link at the end of the season. Not saying Kreiders gonna be a sniper but hopefully he and Richards meet eye to eye and have instant chemistry.
Because Gaboriks a goal scorer, Richards is not...Richards game is dependent on those around him getting open and into places for him to get them the puck.

Both Richards and Gaborik have the same amount of assists basically, because both are pretty much playing with the same caliber of player.

With that said, Richards can DEFINITELY improve...a lot.

he's not been a black hole for this team. hes played pretty well by and large. Its tough to come to a team like this and produce right off the bat...there's a lot of pressure and expectations. i'ld give him 2 or 3 years before throwing him off a bridge.

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03-08-2012, 12:43 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
i think Richards has been fine. Not outstanding, not terrible...just fine.
I wouldn't go that far.

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03-08-2012, 12:52 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
I wouldn't go that far.
he's gotten clutch goals, he's helped to lead a very young team, he's learning a new system, with a coach who isn't playing the way he played back in Tampa....everythings different here.

This system naturally lowers players point totals..Gaborik, who everyone would agree is having a phenomenal season, is on pace for "only" 72 points... I also don't think it's a coincidence that Ryan Callahan is having his best season ever paired almost exclusively with Richards for the bulk of this season.

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03-08-2012, 12:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Robs789 View Post
Sorry but this annoys to hear this. Somehow through Richards large contract everyone forgets who he is. He is not meant to be scoring a goal per game, he is a playmaker. Hes meant to rack in the assists and be the QB of the PP, not be playing Gaboriks role.
Where did I say he had to be scoring goals? He has to be a difference-maker at that salary. He has not been on a night-to-night basis. End of story.

Look around the league. I expect him to be on par with Jason Spezza or Marc Savard (when he was healthy) not Thomas Plekanec.

People made fun of Burke for giving Grabovski his new contract, he is outscoring Brad Richards.

He has 1 more point than Stepan. 1.

He is tied for 72nd in the league in points.

What I find most amusing is that the same people who were bashing Drury and Gomez when they were here are giving Richards a pass. It is UNACCEPTABLE to be paying close to 7 million/season for a player who will most likely end up with 55~60 points.

So far it has been a bad investment and the fact that he is already 31 and signed for 8 MORE seasons does not bode well for the future.

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03-08-2012, 12:55 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Just wondering how everyone feels.

For now it's all about what happens in the playoffs imo. That's when the games count, the season truly on the line.

Brad Richards knows this...


Weather he wins the conn smyth or not if the Rangers get past the 1st round it will be seen as a "step in the process" and an improvement. He will get some credit. If they go to the ECF or further... another step in the process.

Torts loves "the process", Sather understands the process

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03-08-2012, 12:59 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
he's gotten clutch goals, he's helped to lead a very young team, he's learning a new system, with a coach who isn't playing the way he played back in Tampa....everythings different here.

This system naturally lowers players point totals..Gaborik, who everyone would agree is having a phenomenal season, is on pace for "only" 72 points... I also don't think it's a coincidence that Ryan Callahan is having his best season ever paired almost exclusively with Richards for the bulk of this season.
So what you're saying is the system is bad for skill players?

Meh, not a fan of that excuse. Could have some merit, but Richards just looks lost out there at times. That said, i've still stood by him coming up big in the playoffs.

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03-08-2012, 01:07 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
So what you're saying is the system is bad for skill players?

Meh, not a fan of that excuse. Could have some merit, but Richards just looks lost out there at times. That said, i've still stood by him coming up big in the playoffs.
i think our system is tailored to the vast majority of our players...as we get more skill in our lineup, i think Torts will alter the system. Youre already seeing set plays made up for Hagelin...you'll see more of this as we get bigger, faster, and more talented imho.

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03-08-2012, 01:14 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
he's gotten clutch goals, he's helped to lead a very young team, he's learning a new system, with a coach who isn't playing the way he played back in Tampa....everythings different here.

This system naturally lowers players point totals..Gaborik, who everyone would agree is having a phenomenal season, is on pace for "only" 72 points... I also don't think it's a coincidence that Ryan Callahan is having his best season ever paired almost exclusively with Richards for the bulk of this season.
He's also practically dead last in +/- on this team. He really is getting a huge pass and I think that's a good thing. First year here, he doesn't need to read about how badly he's been playing. He is a long-term investment and needs to a big cog in what this team does, especially since his contract will likely prevent the Rangers from re-signing all of their young players in the next few years.

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03-08-2012, 01:17 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
So what you're saying is the system is bad for skill players?

Meh, not a fan of that excuse. Could have some merit, but Richards just looks lost out there at times. That said, i've still stood by him coming up big in the playoffs.
I think any system that demands a certain baseline for 2-way play isn't going to be ideal for a player who's built a career on his offensive game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Look around the league. I expect him to be on par with Jason Spezza or Marc Savard (when he was healthy) not Thomas Plekanec.

People made fun of Burke for giving Grabovski his new contract, he is outscoring Brad Richards.

He has 1 more point than Stepan. 1.

He is tied for 72nd in the league in points.

What I find most amusing is that the same people who were bashing Drury and Gomez when they were here are giving Richards a pass. It is UNACCEPTABLE to be paying close to 7 million/season for a player who will most likely end up with 55~60 points.

So far it has been a bad investment and the fact that he is already 31 and signed for 8 MORE seasons does not bode well for the future.
I've got my doubts that someone like Plekanec could play here and produce at the same rate. More than likely, he'd go the way of Wolski and every other one dimensional player who couldn't bust enough ass to appease Tortorella.

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03-08-2012, 01:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I think any system that demands a certain baseline for 2-way play isn't going to be ideal for a player who's built a career on his offensive game.



I've got my doubts that someone like Plekanec could play here and produce at the same rate. More than likely, he'd go the way of Wolski and every other one dimensional player who couldn't bust enough ass to appease Tortorella.
Either way he was brought to help carry a significant load of the offense. He is not a stellar defensive player by any stretch of the imagination.

I have given him 65 games to get his act together. It has not been a good signing up to this point, 1st place or not.

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03-08-2012, 01:39 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Reijo R View Post
He's also practically dead last in +/- on this team. He really is getting a huge pass and I think that's a good thing. First year here, he doesn't need to read about how badly he's been playing. He is a long-term investment and needs to a big cog in what this team does, especially since his contract will likely prevent the Rangers from re-signing all of their young players in the next few years.
to me +/- is an irrelevant stat unless its a huge outlier. Richards is a +1..it's not as if hes a -22 on a team filled with +15's.

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03-08-2012, 01:42 PM
  #62
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The challenge with Richards, and you see it when you look at the whole of his career, is that some seasons he's arguably one of the better centers in the game. Other seasons he seems to bit closer towards the middle.

This is one of those seasons where he's been a bit towards the middle.

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03-08-2012, 01:42 PM
  #63
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BTW, I just want to point out that the Rangers have had the following players significantly under-achieving this season:

Brad Richards (6.7 million)
Brandon Dubinsky (4.2 million)
Brian Boyle (1.7 million)
Wojtek Wolski (3.8 million)

For a team in first place that is a lot of salary tied up in players not meeting or exceeding the expectations of their contracts.

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03-08-2012, 01:56 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Either way he was brought to help carry a significant load of the offense. He is not a stellar defensive player by any stretch of the imagination.

I have given him 65 games to get his act together. It has not been a good signing up to this point, 1st place or not.
meh.

not sure thats a fair assessment. was he bad from day 1?

He had 26 points in his first 30 games.

he's also got 5 points in his last 6 games.

so thats 31 points in 36 games...about the same pace as what Gabby is at right now...

Problem is he had 14 points in the other 29 games...which is roughly 1/2 PPG...which is not so great.

So, i definitely think the whole "i gave him 65 games thing" is kinda BS. guy was good to start the season, went through a long slump, and has been better as of late, at least on the stat sheet.

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03-08-2012, 01:59 PM
  #65
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I'm not particularly pleased with his play, but I'm happy with how he's mentoring guys like Stepan and Del Zotto. Willing to cut him some slack at this point.
Exactly, and he's going to be around for a while so we should give him this season to adjust. If he doesn't step up his game next year, we can begin to worry.

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03-08-2012, 02:00 PM
  #66
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Correct me if I'm wrong Sandy, but has Richards had a revolving cast of wingers thanks to Torts?

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03-08-2012, 02:03 PM
  #67
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really if you break it down even further, hes had a few cold streches that hurt him a lot. from jan 10-jan 19 he had 0 points in 6 games.

december 13-december28 1 point in 8 games and from october 22-october 27 0 points in 3 games.

other than that he hasn't had any stretches of 3 consecutive games w/o a point.

Actually the more you break down the numbers, the more you'll see he has been hurt by some very isolated cold spells rather than having a poor season.

Actually if you take out the cold stretch in december and the one in january his numbers are a lot more respectable...

51gp, 17g, 27a, 44p...that's a 71 point pace...almost identical to Gabbys pace.

2 cold stretches really hurt his numbers.

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03-08-2012, 02:05 PM
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Gabbys season last year was actually a lot worse than what Richards is doing here, because Gabbys numbers were way more isolated. tons of games with 2-5 points, and tons of games with 0 points.

Richards has been a lot more consistent than that. really got killed with having 2 cold stretches, and no stretches where he was dominating, putting up 3 and 4 point nights in consecutive games..

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03-08-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherWood Lumber 76 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong Sandy, but has Richards had a revolving cast of wingers thanks to Torts?
thats not really accurate. no coach is going to have the same players play together all season long....Torts has been fairly consistent with Richards...playing him usually with cally, dubi, or hagelin....in some shape...he's also had a few games where he played with Prust and Fedotenko...probably during the cold stretches i outlined earlier.

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03-08-2012, 02:16 PM
  #70
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His point totals are average, but not as much as they should be. However, I don't really mind that because I understand new team and all that stuff, but there are a lot of games, even ones he gets a point in, where he is useless the entire game. He has to at least be a threat game in and game out to help our team and allow for some room to be opened up for other guys. He has not done that on many occations and why should I believe it will get better as he gets older?

I have liked the look of him, Gabby and Cally together as maybe Gabby and Cally can jump start him. That line is stacked heavy so perhaps a second of Ani-Step-Hags will suddenly start scoring as teams have to focus on the first. Maybe Hags-Richards-Gabby might work well too.

Edit: To clarifiy the first part, he has had a few games where he got 1 secondary assist in the game, but other than that was not a factor in the game.

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03-08-2012, 02:19 PM
  #71
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meh.

not sure thats a fair assessment. was he bad from day 1?

He had 26 points in his first 30 games.

he's also got 5 points in his last 6 games.

so thats 31 points in 36 games...about the same pace as what Gabby is at right now...

Problem is he had 14 points in the other 29 games...which is roughly 1/2 PPG...which is not so great.

So, i definitely think the whole "i gave him 65 games thing" is kinda BS. guy was good to start the season, went through a long slump, and has been better as of late, at least on the stat sheet.
And around half the games he's scored a goal or registered a point, he's still looked absolutely awful, for example the Winter Classic, where he was the worst player on the ice for the majority of the game.

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03-08-2012, 02:23 PM
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And around half the games he's scored a goal or registered a point, he's still looked absolutely awful, for example the Winter Classic, where he was the worst player on the ice for the majority of the game.
i definitely disagree with that. i think youre expecting something from this player that youre just not going to get. Richards isnt going to blaze through ppl with his speed. hes not going to bowl people over with his power. he's not going to dipsy doodle around people with his stick handling.
He's a smart player. Intelligent players tend to play more reserved games and get on the scoresheet despite you not really noticing them. I think people are misconstruing have a quiet game with having a bad game. Dan Girardi had a bad game last game against the Devils. Brad Richards had a quiet game.

i think ppl need to have a better understanding of the players strengths and weaknesses before condemning then for sucking or whatever. Richards is going to do this for the rest of his tenure here. put up a point or 2 every game or so, but not really "dominate" out there when hes on the ice.

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03-08-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MrAlmost View Post
His point totals are average, but not as much as they should be. However, I don't really mind that because I understand new team and all that stuff, but there are a lot of games, even ones he gets a point in, where he is useless the entire game. He has to at least be a threat game in and game out to help our team and allow for some room to be opened up for other guys. He has not done that on many occations and why should I believe it will get better as he gets older?

I have liked the look of him, Gabby and Cally together as maybe Gabby and Cally can jump start him. That line is stacked heavy so perhaps a second of Ani-Step-Hags will suddenly start scoring as teams have to focus on the first. Maybe Hags-Richards-Gabby might work well too.

Edit: To clarifiy the first part, he has had a few games where he got 1 secondary assist in the game, but other than that was not a factor in the game.
if getting secondary assists are so easy, then Brandon Dubinsky would be having a better statistical season than he is. Richards makes a lot of very good, subtle plays out there that go unnoticed. So many times he'll bring it into the zone late in a shift. hold the puck for a few seconds, then put it into a zone where the next shift can get to it to continue pressure. he doesnt get points for that, he doesnt get any credit for it, but its a very smart play. he's a very good player.

i dunno, i really value hockey IQ over almost every other hockey ability, so call me biased, i think Richards is going to be just fine, and barring 2 cold streaks, neither of which were ridiculously long, he's been getting on the score sheet with regularity.

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03-08-2012, 02:34 PM
  #74
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Those cold streak are really scray, though. Inferno. One point in 14 games? The guy is being paid like a superstar! Do you ever see Malkin/Kane/Nash (etc.) have stretches like that?

And I also agree with those who have mentioned his secondary assists in games where he played poorly. That Boston game Sunday is a PERFECT example. He lost several faceoffs in the d-zone that resulted in the team getting hemmed in, and he failed to pick-up the right guy backchecking on the 3rd Bruins goal. Meanwhile, you look at the scoresheet and see 2 (secondary) assists and think he earned his money. He didn't!

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03-08-2012, 02:37 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
i definitely disagree with that. i think youre expecting something from this player that youre just not going to get. Richards isnt going to blaze through ppl with his speed. hes not going to bowl people over with his power. he's not going to dipsy doodle around people with his stick handling.
He's a smart player. Intelligent players tend to play more reserved games and get on the scoresheet despite you not really noticing them. I think people are misconstruing have a quiet game with having a bad game. Dan Girardi had a bad game last game against the Devils. Brad Richards had a quiet game.

i think ppl need to have a better understanding of the players strengths and weaknesses before condemning then for sucking or whatever. Richards is going to do this for the rest of his tenure here. put up a point or 2 every game or so, but not really "dominate" out there when hes on the ice.
I'm totally aware of what type of player Richards is. He exhibited it against Philly a few weeks ago during his 3 assist game, that's what he can bring. I didn't even have extremely high expectations for him, he's been that bad.

Artem Anisimov borders on quiet (and he's on thin ice IMO), Richards has just been bad. Every shift he botches completely routine plays, like passes he could do blindfolded in Dallas, but of course he comes to NY and loses everything.

I have my finger crossed this was also in an effort to save his energy for the playoffs, he began tailing off when this team caught fire. Maybe he realized that was the best idea, but I'm skeptical after some of the other "veteran" plays he's tried on the ice this season.

Or more specifically, I don't want to be one of those people that tries to look too deep into situations, but he turned to **** the moment after word was out that he broke up with that chick, no joke. It could always just be a coincidence.

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