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03-08-2012, 12:23 PM
  #1
Lafleurs Guy
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Even More Crap from Jack...

Our resident "sewer rat" is at it again. I'm not posting the link because I don't want him to get the traffic.

As much as I hate the job Gauthier has done, Todd again lowers himself to the gutters to make a point. This time using the illness of Jean Beliveau to trash Gauthier.
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The news that Jean Béliveau was in hospital following a stroke last week brought the plight of the modern-day Canadiens into high relief.

There is simply no way to accurately describe the respect and affection Béliveau commands, here and across the country. He is, surely, the greatest living Quebecer, and you could make a strong case for him as the greatest living Canadian, if not for the presence of David Suzuki.

Try living for 60 years and more in the public eye without making, so far as we know, a single enemy. Try putting up with the non-stop demands of an adoring public, answering every letter with a longhand note, signing every autograph, always pausing to chat.

With Béliveau’s health at risk (mercifully, it seems he will be all right) the outpouring of affection for this great man was profoundly moving. He is everything most of us would like to be, somewhere deep inside: kind, dignified, patient, engaged and, during this years of his stardom, supremely courageous and talented.

Unfortunately, any reminder of Béliveau and his greatness reminds us also how far this club has fallen and how long the road will be if Béliveau’s beloved Habs are ever to climb back to the top.

It’s not just the way the Canadiens perform on the ice, although that is a big part of it. When you’re 25-41 for 60 points, when you’re last in the Eastern Conference with a good chance of remaining there over the last 16 games, you’re in a trough at the foot of the mountain.

It’s also the lack of class in the way general manager Pierre Gauthier deals with the world that has to be addressed. In so many ways, Gauthier is the anti-Béliveau. Béliveau treats everyone with respect; Gauthier treats everyone with contempt. Fans won’t lose too much sleep over Gauthier’s contempt for the media, but he has the same contempt for players and coaches.

When you see the way Gauthier has dealt with players like Jaroslav Spacek and Hal Gill (telling both they had been traded and he would get back to them to say where they were headed) that reveals a petty individual with no respect at all for two hard-working soldiers. Michael Cammalleri can be a selfish guy, but after his playoff run in 2010, did he deserve to be yanked off the ice and told to go back to the hotel to await the news as to where he’d been traded? Cammalleri was dealt because he committed the ultimate sin in Gauthier’s little world: he talked.

A smart GM would have held out until the trade deadline, when Cammalleri’s value might have been much higher. Gauthier would rather show his authority by dealing the player at the wrong time.

Assuming we get a new GM in a month or so when the Canadiens season is finished, he is going to have some repair work to do to polish the image of an organization that is now a far cry from what it once was: the classiest in the sport...
I'm no fan of Gauthier's but to drag Beliveau into this (esp considering the timing of it) to try to make a point is disgraceful. Once again, Todd oversteps the bourdaries of good taste and turns this into a personal attack.

Some of his criticisms (I edited out the rest of the article) may be valid but Jack Todd's lack of journalistic professionalism overshadows any valid points that he tries to make. I've said it before and I'll say it again. He is an embarassment to the city of Montreal. He is an embarassment to his own newspaper. He is an embarassment to journalism himself. As much as I think PG needs to be fired, Jack Todd should come first. His writing is absolute garbage.

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03-08-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

As much as I hate the job Gauthier has done, Todd again lowers himself to the gutters to make a point.
I concur. I've gone from being a mild fan of Gauthier to a raving, foaming-at-the-mouth hater but only because I thinks he's a lousy GM. He strikes me as a very reserved person but I'm not going to make pronouncements about his character.

Jeeze, I'm old enough to remember when Mr. Todd used to write an occasional decent piece. What the hell happened to him?

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03-08-2012, 12:32 PM
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The only point I agree with is that we probably should have waited for the trade deadline to deal Cammalleri. Other than that, I don't agree with anything he said.

He is acting as if his speculation is actually true in how he claims Gauthier is such a jerk to the media and the players. I don't really see how he has been rude to anyone. It's just a Habs policy that they don't communicate openly with the media, and I think that is a good thing.

He refers to every single player with the title "mister" and that doesn't really indicate contempt to me...

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Old
03-08-2012, 12:34 PM
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PG is a garbage visionary (unless the plan all along was to draft in the top 3)

Leave Jean out of this, though... DEFINITELY.

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03-08-2012, 12:36 PM
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What really irks me is the way he places his soapbox squarely on the shoulders of a legend, then stands on his shoulders and sanctimoniously rips apart PG at a personal level. It's way below the belt and using Beliveau at this point in time to do this is tasteless in the extreme. He reminds me of Dan Quayle trying to equate himself to Jack Kennedy.

Mr. Todd, please don't invoke the name of Jean Beliveau in any of your articles. You aren't worthy of doing so.

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03-08-2012, 12:43 PM
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When you see the way Gauthier has dealt with players like Jaroslav Spacek and Hal Gill (telling both they had been traded and he would get back to them to say where they were headed) that reveals a petty individual with no respect at all for two hard-working soldiers.
Its general team policy league-wide to inform players when they've been traded before the trade call has officially gone through. You also can't say who you traded them to before the official trade call. More hack journalism from Jack Todd. Half the posters here could do a better job than him.

To deputize Béliveau into any argument is classless on whole new level. Todd comes off as petulant, his analysis of Gauthier deeply personal.

I think Gauthier has been pretty bad, especially as a leader in the organization, but Jack Todd makes me want to side to him, especially with "Gauthier’s contempt for the media".

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03-08-2012, 12:45 PM
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Looking at this from a different angle, how do you expect an entire organization to have the same class + leadership that Bealiveau has, He is truly a special person for those reasons alone, for one other person to have the same pedigree of those qualities is the mark of a special person, let alone hoping for an entire franchise possessing those qualities is just a dream

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03-08-2012, 12:55 PM
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Todd ripped Gauthier over his professional dealings with players and over bad professional decisions, and mentions some things we can all agree on. I fail to see how it is a personal attack. He didn't comment on his personal life or family.

It's a compare and contrast article which is very flattering to Beliveau, and given that the medical prognosis is good for him, entirely appropriate.

Seems like old biases in play based on some old articles written about the team's sacred cow.

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03-08-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Todd ripped Gauthier over his professional dealings with players and over bad professional decisions, and mentions some things we can all agree on. I fail to see how it is a personal attack. He didn't comment on his personal life or family.

It's a compare and contrast article which is very flattering to Beliveau, and given that the medical prognosis is good for him, entirely appropriate.

Seems like old biases in play based on some old articles written about the team's sacred cow.
Does it sound weird to say I don't disagree with what he said, but how he said it. The article flatters Beliveau, but I doubt many elite GMs could match Beliveau's class. With Beliveau's prognosis good, can't we leave him out of non-personal articles and let him recover?

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03-08-2012, 01:09 PM
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I know you detest JT, but I don't see anything wrong with the article.

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03-08-2012, 01:10 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Todd ripped Gauthier over his professional dealings with players and over bad professional decisions, and mentions some things we can all agree on. I fail to see how it is a personal attack. He didn't comment on his personal life or family.

It's a compare and contrast article which is very flattering to Beliveau, and given that the medical prognosis is good for him, entirely appropriate.

Seems like old biases in play based on some old articles written about the team's sacred cow.
"It’s also the lack of class in the way general manager Pierre Gauthier deals with the world that has to be addressed. In so many ways, Gauthier is the anti-Béliveau. Béliveau treats everyone with respect; Gauthier treats everyone with contempt."

That's about as personal as it gets. And again... he shouldn't be invoking the name of Beliveau here to grind an axe. It's one thing to do something like this on a message board, but Todd is a newspaper writer. He's supposed to be a journalist. Instead, he's an embarassment.

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03-08-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
Does it sound weird to say I don't disagree with what he said, but how he said it. The article flatters Beliveau, but I doubt many elite GMs could match Beliveau's class. With Beliveau's prognosis good, can't we leave him out of non-personal articles and let him recover?
then Todd couldn't convey his message:

1) Beliveau is the embodiment of the team's classy and successful past
2) Gauthier represents the anti-Beliveau

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03-08-2012, 01:19 PM
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I can't remember the last time I read something from Jack Todd.

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03-08-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
"It’s also the lack of class in the way general manager Pierre Gauthier deals with the world that has to be addressed. In so many ways, Gauthier is the anti-Béliveau. Béliveau treats everyone with respect; Gauthier treats everyone with contempt."

That's about as personal as it gets. And again... he shouldn't be invoking the name of Beliveau here to grind an axe. It's one thing to do something like this on a message board, but Todd is a newspaper writer. He's supposed to be a journalist. Instead, he's an embarassment.
LG, I think you're shooting the messenger on this one. Todd hits on some points that have been made by other journalists. He uses Beliveau for contrast. I won't go so far as to say it's a great article but I truly believe it to be true.

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03-08-2012, 01:27 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
LG, I think you're shooting the messenger on this one. Todd hits on some points that have been made by other journalists. He uses Beliveau for contrast. I won't go so far as to say it's a great article but I truly believe it to be true.
As I said, I actually agree with a lot of what he wrote. It's the way he wrote it that was tasteless. If the guy just stuck to the facts without his usual sanctimony, it might've been a decent piece. But he seems incapable of writing a professional article.

Much of what he said has been echoed in these very forums. And I edited out much of his analysis that comes later, most of which I agree with. But the guy can't help himself. He's got to be a jerk in every article he writes. And you know it's bad when a high point for him is when he's not calling somebody a "sewer rat."

I'm sorry but I can't help but continue to bring this to the attention of fans in Montreal. The man is a garbage journalist and it must be chronicled and pointed out. Some things need to be spoken out against and bad journalism is among them. The man has no place writing for a newspaper. As for shooting the messenger... I'd make a pun on this but I don't want to get banned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
then Todd couldn't convey his message:

1) Beliveau is the embodiment of the team's classy and successful past
2) Gauthier represents the anti-Beliveau
Point number 1 should be made in a separate article.

Point number 2 shouldn't be made at all. By all means rip apart his term as GM, but leave Beliveau out of it. The timing of it is awful. If he wants to draw a comparison to former greats, use one who isn't currently in the hospital. Use Sam Pollock as the standard of greatness. Don't drag Mr. Beliveau into this. I doubt he'd want to be used this way.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 03-08-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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03-08-2012, 01:35 PM
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The most annoying thing about pundits discussing our terrible year is that they seem to say Gauthier has led the Habs to have a tarnished image not because of poor product but because of a "lack of class," as if it's the classiness that made the Habs the greatest organization in hockey. Look you can have oodles of class but as long as you suck, it doesn't matter one iota. Why is that such a main worry when the team is garbage? I care a lot more about that and when you're bad it's hard to look classy anyway. God, even back in 1984 when the Habs beat the Nordiques in the Good Friday brawl, Michael Farber wrote an article bemoaning that the Canadiens may have found a successful playoff formula again but it was tainted because they used violence and bullied their way to the top. They were no longer "classy" and "gentlemanly" like before. Whoop-dee-doo! Todd seems to have a similar painty-waist point of view.

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03-08-2012, 01:38 PM
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I agree with Lafleurs Guy. If it's a piece on Beliveau, write about him. If it's a piece on Gauthier, write about him. But no point is made and no interest served in bashing Gauthier by comparing him with Beliveau. It's a cheap, low-class tactic of holding the present up to the impossibly high standards of a legendary past.

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03-08-2012, 01:39 PM
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The only point I agree with is that we probably should have waited for the trade deadline to deal Cammalleri. Other than that, I don't agree with anything he said.

He is acting as if his speculation is actually true in how he claims Gauthier is such a jerk to the media and the players. I don't really see how he has been rude to anyone. It's just a Habs policy that they don't communicate openly with the media, and I think that is a good thing.

He refers to every single player with the title "mister" and that doesn't really indicate contempt to me...
One question correct me if I'm wrong but Cammy gives PG his list of teams (Limited movement contract)I forget the amount or the order; how on earth does PG get more value from the Cammy trade if he is limited to Cammy's choice of teams? Yes I agree he would of got more value at the deadline but is it not the player (Cammy) in this situation that calls the shots? PG could have received a great deal from a team not on Cammy's list and Cammy just has to say no the deal is done. Montreal Canadiens organization is so closed in talks nobody and I mean nobody expect those directly involved know how the trade went down! Just a thought....Also wasn't there talks when Gainey was GM of trading for Vincent Lecavalier before Gomez and the reports only talked about it after the fact when Gainey and Dudley started arguing over the air? Reports, Fans and I bet cleaning staff know nothing about Montreal behind those doors.

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03-08-2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
then Todd couldn't convey his message:

1) Beliveau is the embodiment of the team's classy and successful past
2) Gauthier represents the anti-Beliveau
Beliveau is far from the only example of the organizations classy past. Beliveau was never a GM, he was a leader of a different nature. The two positions aren't completely comparable. Its not like Selke was beloved in Montreal and Pollock famously decided to blow up the team to get Lafleur (which isn't that loyal or classy to the players he traded). GMs aren't supposed to be beloved, they're supposed to be effective and professional. Gauthier's problem is that he isn't effective or professional. I'm certain he could of chosen a different individual that could have illustrated his point better.

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03-08-2012, 01:47 PM
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These types of false comparisons are actually a pet-peeve of mine. I HATE when people criticize today's Habs because they're not yesterday's Habs. Please, for godsakes, give the friggin' "Storied franchise" cliche a rest already!! Here's a clue: It's not the 1960s, the entire NHL is not the same and neither are the 30 salary-capped teams. Players today are not "Habs", "Red Wings" or "Bruins". They're millionaire temp-employees who will slap on any number of jerseys in their career if the contract fits.

Blaming the Habs for not continuing to be "Storied" is like blaming Obama for not being George Washington.

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03-08-2012, 01:48 PM
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Gauthier better be fired on April 8th, don't want to see his ugly face at the draft lottery

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03-08-2012, 01:51 PM
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I know you detest JT, but I don't see anything wrong with the article.
I don't think there is anything wrong either.

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03-08-2012, 01:53 PM
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I know you detest JT, but I don't see anything wrong with the article.
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
I don't think there is anything wrong either.
I ain't a fan of both Todd and Tremblay but both articles are bang on. Molson needs to clean up upper management and send everyone packing the day after the final game of the season

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03-08-2012, 01:53 PM
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so he uses beliveau's illness to score cheap points? you go jack...

you ****ing c**t

edit: just the fact that he prefaces his **** storm by saying that "[...] lack of class in the way general manager Pierre Gauthier deals with the world [...]" and then has the balls to bring beliveau into it?

really jack?

suck a c***

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03-08-2012, 01:55 PM
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I have to laugh at constantly bringing up the fact that Gauthier could not tell Gill or Spacek where they were going before the deal was finalized. Yeah he should be classy like a lot of teams and let players find out on TSN or Twitter that they have been traded...

I'm surprised Gauthier has yet to be blamed for the robocall scandal. he's been blamed for every other problem recently.

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