Syl Apps wasn't the best player in any one season, but was arguably the best player for a five year span. He was the Hart trophy runner up 1939, 1940 and 1942, and was third in 1941 and 1943. He also led the playoffs in scoring in 1942.
Walter "Babe" Pratt won the Hart in 1944, though a significant portion of the league's best players had left and joined the Armed Forces that year.
Ted Kennedy won the Hart in 1955. Some people on this forum have considered this to be a "retirement" award (though he made a 30-game comeback two years later). Kennedy was a popular, well-respected player but 1955 did not appear to be a particularly great season - he was not named to the first- or second- all-star team that year, and ranked only 11th in points.
Last edited by Hockey Outsider: 03-04-2012 at 10:15 PM.
In the last 35 years the Leafs have never had a player that would be considered the best at their position at the time. Also in that time they have only had two players good enough to make Team Canada at either the Canada Cup, World Cup or Olympics. Cujo made the team in 2002 but was pulled after the first game and McCabe made the 2006 Olympic team but manage 0 points in 6 games.
Let's just say that the Leafs have defined sucking for an entire generation.
The Leafs have never really had a face of the game type Gretzky, Hull, Richard, Howe, Orr, Lemieux type player in their history. While they dominated the Original Six era with the Habs and the Wings to a lesser extent, they did so with more of a team concept built for the playoffs than individual superstar greatness. I'd almost liken them to the Detroit Red Wings of the post lockout era. Well balanced collection of great players fitting into a great system with winning experience as opposed to the Penguins or Hawks, who did so with some big names at key positions. In some ways I find this to be unfortunate, because I am personally more interested in winning teams with big name talent than the successful 'collective'.
In the last 35 years the Leafs have never had a player that would be considered the best at their position at the time. Also in that time they have only had two players good enough to make Team Canada at either the Canada Cup, World Cup or Olympics. Cujo made the team in 2002 but was pulled after the first game and McCabe made the 2006 Olympic team but manage 0 points in 6 games.
Let's just say that the Leafs have defined sucking for an entire generation.
I forgot to mention that the only reason McCabe made the '06 team was because Ed Jovo got hurt. It's hard to believe that Canada's richest team has basically never had a Canadian player good enough to make team Canada, at least not in my life time.
We've had a couple of exciting runs, such as in '93, where the team exceeded expectations and made it deep into the playoffs, but how is it in 40+ yrs that we have never had a roster good enough where we were expected to go deep or even win the cup. At this point I would settle for a great team on paper that disappoints. It boggles the mind how a team could suck so bad for so long.
The Leafs have never really had a face of the game type Gretzky, Hull, Richard, Howe, Orr, Lemieux type player in their history. While they dominated the Original Six era with the Habs and the Wings to a lesser extent, they did so with more of a team concept built for the playoffs than individual superstar greatness. I'd almost liken them to the Detroit Red Wings of the post lockout era. Well balanced collection of great players fitting into a great system with winning experience as opposed to the Penguins or Hawks, who did so with some big names at key positions. In some ways I find this to be unfortunate, because I am personally more interested in winning teams with big name talent than the successful 'collective'.
DRW's top players were clearly better than chicago's.
Well, dating myself a bit here but I was a kid in Toronto when they were winning those Cups in the 60's and as a collective and individually defensively they had a plethora of top 4-10 at every position. Stanley, Horton, Keon, Baun etc etc etc. Shutdown artists extrordinaire!.
How is it possible that this thread has failed to mention Charlie Conacher? Was arguably the best goal-scorer of the 1930s as he led the NHL in goals five times in six seasons and captured two Art Ross Trophies. He also was named to three First All-Star Teams and two Second All-Star Teams in a five season span from 1932-36 and won the 1932 Stanley Cup with the Leafs.
How is it possible that this thread has failed to mention Charlie Conacher? Was arguably the best goal-scorer of the 1930s as he led the NHL in goals five times in six seasons and captured two Art Ross Trophies. He also was named to three First All-Star Teams and two Second All-Star Teams in a five season span from 1932-36 and won the 1932 Stanley Cup with the Leafs.
The entire Kid line were among probably among the top 5 or 6 forwards during their time together.
Since the 1967 expansion from the original 6, I think the only Leafs who could be argued to be top 5 players in the league for 3+ years would be Gilmour and Salming, and they're both very borderline (Gilmour's argument while with the Leafs really only works for 2 years, Salming had many great years, but calling him a top 5 player in the whole league over those years is maybe a stretch). Sundin and Sittler are on the edge too, but were very good for a very long time, but not quite top 5 in the league IMO. None of them were ever close to being the best player in the league for even 1 season.
We have definitely had some incredibly pathetic management, we have an unbelievable amount of trouble acquiring top end talent.
How is it possible that this thread has failed to mention Charlie Conacher? Was arguably the best goal-scorer of the 1930s as he led the NHL in goals five times in six seasons and captured two Art Ross Trophies. He also was named to three First All-Star Teams and two Second All-Star Teams in a five season span from 1932-36 and won the 1932 Stanley Cup with the Leafs.
He should be the 2nd guy we think of after Apps. It really is a joke when a bunch of
"experts" pick Keon to be the best Leaf of all-time. Conacher lacks a bit when it comes to Hart voting (by his lofty statistical standards) but he dominated a decade better than Keon ever did.
Apps probably fits the bill best here. Definitely a time when you could have labelled him the best player in the NHL and no one would have chuckled. Kind of had a Johnny Carson moment too when he retired out on top after winning the Cup in 1948.
Also Turk Broda can fit this bill. Maybe people pick Bill Durnan as the best goalie in the 1940s but if that's the case the only reason would be because Broda lost time to the war. Either way, give me Turk 8 days a week. For my money the best goalie in the 1940s. Had a few year span in my book where he was the best goalie in the game.
Tim Horton. Was named to the first team NHL All Star team in 1964, 1968 and 1969, and a second NHL All Star member in 1953, 1963 and 1967. Was a four time Stanley Cup champion to boot.
In the last 35 years the Leafs have never had a player that would be considered the best at their position at the time. Also in that time they have only had two players good enough to make Team Canada at either the Canada Cup, World Cup or Olympics. Cujo made the team in 2002 but was pulled after the first game and McCabe made the 2006 Olympic team but manage 0 points in 6 games.
Let's just say that the Leafs have defined sucking for an entire generation.
Well from 93 til 2002 they were one of the best teams. 4 cf appearances.
But to truely understand you need to know who ran the team before threy got good.
Also didn't NHL players not play in the Olympics until 96?
Pat Quinn (their coach at the time) was named the 2002 coach (one of 2 Canada teams to win in the past 60 years)
Well from 93 til 2002 they were one of the best teams. 4 cf appearances.
But to truely understand you need to know who ran the team before threy got good.
Also didn't NHL players not play in the Olympics until 96?
Pat Quinn (their coach at the time) was named the 2002 coach (one of 2 Canada teams to win in the past 60 years)
In all those 4 SF appearances I would say that the Leafs over achieved, and also other than '93 they didn't ever look like they actually had a shot at advancing to the finals, let alone winning the cup. Keep in mind that none of the teams who beat the Leafs in those 4 SF's won the cup that year.
I'm born and bred in T.O. and old enough to remember a good part of the Ballard years, but let's face it our record even since then is pretty dismal.
The NHL didn't participate in the OG until '98, but I was also pointing out that no Leafs played for Canada in the '81, '84, '87, '91 Canada Cup teams, or in the '96 and '04 World Cups.
Quinn was a good coach, but I was more commenting on the quality of the players we have had. You might also recall that it's unlikely Cujo would have got the start for Canada in the Olympics if Quinn wasn't the coach and it turned out to be a mistake anyway.
I've got to admit that I am kind of fed up with the Leafs. I would never pay to see them as they are now and rarely watch their games any more, yet I could never cheer for another NHL team. I was kind of excited when Burke took over, but even that looks to have been another total failure, which after all shouldn't surprise any Leaf fans.
Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 03-09-2012 at 09:38 PM.
In all those 4 SF appearances I would say that the Leafs over achieved, and also other than '93 they didn't ever look like they actually had a shot at advancing to the finals, let alone winning the cup.
I'm born and bred in T.O. and old enough to remember a good part of the Ballard years, but let's face it our record even since then is pretty dismal.
The NHL didn't participate in the OG until '98, but I was also pointing out that no Leafs played for Canada in the '81, '84, '87, '91 Canada Cup teams, or in the '96 and '04 World Cups.
Quinn was a good coach, but I was more commenting on the quality of the players we have had. You might also recall that it's unlikely Cujo would have got the start for Canada in the Olympics if Quinn wasn't the coach and it turned out to be a mistake anyway.
I've got to admit that I am kind of fed up with the Leafs. I would never pay to see them as they are now and rarely watch their games any more, yet I could never cheer for another NHL team. I was kind of excited when Burke took over, but even that looks to have been another total failure, which after all shouldn't surprise any Leaf fans.
93 and 94 they didn't over achieve at all. 99 I can agree with but hey, good teams do that. 2002 they were favorites to beat Canes and that series could have gone either way. Still, to this day, my favorite series ever. Yes Sens and Flyers series were fun but 2002 was so close and the winner moving on to the finals..
I wouldn't call it dismal since then. I mean 4 CF in the past 19 years is still pretty good and better than most (aside the obvious of Colorado, Detroit, NJ). Since the lockout it hasn't been fun but the first 2 years after the lockout they missed by a point. The hardest season I've had to watch in my nearly 20 years as a fun was 2010 by far, though.
93 and 94 they didn't over achieve at all. 99 I can agree with but hey, good teams do that. 2002 they were favorites to beat Canes and that series could have gone either way. Still, to this day, my favorite series ever. Yes Sens and Flyers series were fun but 2002 was so close and the winner moving on to the finals..
I wouldn't call it dismal since then. I mean 4 CF in the past 19 years is still pretty good and better than most (aside the obvious of Colorado, Detroit, NJ). Since the lockout it hasn't been fun but the first 2 years after the lockout they missed by a point. The hardest season I've had to watch in my nearly 20 years as a fun was 2010 by far, though.
In the last three SF appearances the Leafs have a 4-12 record so I'm not as impressed as you might be. I would put much more weight in an appearance in the finals, or even in a presidents trophy, let alone winning the cup.
Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 03-09-2012 at 10:40 PM.
