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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part IV (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

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Old
03-07-2012, 12:41 PM
  #51
Hermamoud
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
That Federal League is quite something...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Hockey_League

5050$ salary cap per week. Divide that by 17, that's a bit less than 300$ per week per player.

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Old
03-07-2012, 12:41 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Because every ****ing one of you cried your heart out about how Tom freaking Pyatt couldn't put a goal in an open net, and how Benoit mother****ing Pouliot couldn't take a shift without falling on his ass.

This ****ing city man. The ****ing people in this city man. Unbelievable.
Forget Pyatt.


Pouliot, from the moment he was let walk, I thought that was a huge mistake right there.

You can't sign a super talented (but inconsistent, OK) 24yr old, fix foot three+, fast skating forward, to a 1 million dollar contract? A guy whom you had traded a decent asset in Latendresse for, just let him walk just like that? Not even looking at the Lats trade though, seriously? Pouliot is maybe not tearing it up this year, and maybe he won't next year, but he is definitely a very talented big forward with speed and a little mean streak if you get in to a fight with him and piss him off. He has some issues, but he is still young and I think it was definitely a mistake to let him go for nothing.

Screw Gainey, and screw Gauthier.


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Old
03-07-2012, 01:01 PM
  #53
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Hey, look who's the top pointer in the Federal Hockey League. Posting Gretzky-like numbers too.

http://fhl_league.stats.pointstreak....?leagueid=1018
ok just to be clear, I had nothing but Junior B hockey experience, and I played 4 games in the FHL this season. It is an absolute joke of a hockey league, a few ex NHL'ers surrounded by Division 2 NCAA guys and ex Junior A guys.

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Old
03-07-2012, 01:05 PM
  #54
Pierre Dagenais
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Originally Posted by habitants19 View Post
ok just to be clear, I had nothing but Junior B hockey experience, and I played 4 games in the FHL this season. It is an absolute joke of a hockey league, a few ex NHL'ers surrounded by Division 2 NCAA guys and ex Junior A guys.
Pierre Dagenais is a great player and deserves all the credit right now for leading the league in scoring.

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Old
03-07-2012, 01:13 PM
  #55
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You know, I was a big believer in Price and really thought that the Habs made the right call in trading Halak. I was not a believer in the return and thought that we should have gotten more. That said I hope that I will continue to eat crow as Eller progresses. But have any of you seen Halak's stats this year? Do we still think that we made the correct call? That being said, Halak has not shown that he can play 65 games at this level, but those stats are unreal.

W-L-OTL 22-10-5 SV% .926 GAA 1.89 SO 6

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03-07-2012, 01:21 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by walsy37 View Post
You know, I was a big believer in Price and really thought that the Habs made the right call in trading Halak. I was not a believer in the return and thought that we should have gotten more. That said I hope that I will continue to eat crow as Eller progresses. But have any of you seen Halak's stats this year? Do we still think that we made the correct call? That being said, Halak has not shown that he can play 65 games at this level, but those stats are unreal.

W-L-OTL 22-10-5 SV% .926 GAA 1.89 SO 6
I'm not impressed at all
Elliott
31 20 8 2 .937 1.63 6


I'm more impressed by the team performance with less than 2 GPG


this is his stats before hitchcock

NOV 5 '11 STL @ MIN L 2 26 24 .923 0 0 58:34 2 0 0 0
OCT 30 '11 STL @ EDM L 4 30 26 .867 0 0 58:27 2 2 0 0
OCT 18 '11 STL @ LAK L 4 18 14 .778 0 0 40:23 3 1 0 0
OCT 16 '11 STL @ ANA L 4 23 19 .826 0 0 58:36 3 1 0 0
OCT 13 '11 STL @ DAL L 3 24 21 .875 0 0 59:03 1 1 1 0
OCT 10 '11 CGY @ STL W 2 17 15 .882 0 0 59:52 1 1 0 0
OCT 8 '11 NSH @ STL L 3 15 12 .800 0 0 58:46 1 2 0 1


with hitchcock
36-11-7
on pace of 120pts

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Old
03-07-2012, 01:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Pierre Dagenais is a great player and deserves all the credit right now for leading the league in scoring.
I've always thought that Dagenais, like MAB, could have been a serviceable asset for this team if he had been used properly to maximise his strenghts and hide his weaknesses.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a shootout or pp specialist as my 13th forward or 7th d-man rather than a goon or an AHLer.

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03-07-2012, 01:25 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
Forget Pyatt.


Pouliot, from the moment he was let walk, I thought that was a huge mistake right there.

You can't sign a super talented (but inconsistent, OK) 24yr old, fix foot three+, fast skating forward, to a 1 million dollar contract? A guy whom you had traded a decent asset in Latendresse for, just let him walk just like that? Not even looking at the Lats trade though, seriously? Pouliot is maybe not tearing it up this year, and maybe he won't next year, but he is definitely a very talented big forward with speed and a little mean streak if you get in to a fight with him and piss him off. He has some issues, but he is still young and I think it was definitely a mistake to let him go for nothing.

Screw Gainey, and screw Gauthier.
Pouliot has some skills...but calling him super talented is quite comical.

Retaining him here would have cost 1.5 mil qualifying offer, they offered him around with no takers and decided to non tender him.

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Old
03-07-2012, 01:27 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
I'm not impressed at all
Elliott
31 20 8 2 .937 1.63 6


I'm more impressed by the team performance with less than 2 GPG


this is his stats before hitchcock

NOV 5 '11 STL @ MIN L 2 26 24 .923 0 0 58:34 2 0 0 0
OCT 30 '11 STL @ EDM L 4 30 26 .867 0 0 58:27 2 2 0 0
OCT 18 '11 STL @ LAK L 4 18 14 .778 0 0 40:23 3 1 0 0
OCT 16 '11 STL @ ANA L 4 23 19 .826 0 0 58:36 3 1 0 0
OCT 13 '11 STL @ DAL L 3 24 21 .875 0 0 59:03 1 1 1 0
OCT 10 '11 CGY @ STL W 2 17 15 .882 0 0 59:52 1 1 0 0
OCT 8 '11 NSH @ STL L 3 15 12 .800 0 0 58:46 1 2 0 1


with hitchcock
36-11-7
on pace of 120pts
His stats prove that he's still a very good goalie. And with the exact same team, and the exact same coach we all know that Halak >> Price.

I find it very strange that Price has managed to battle his way to the top hockey league in the world but is so afraid of real competition that the team has to hire second-rate backups like Auld and Budaj to reassure him.

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Old
03-07-2012, 01:37 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
His stats prove that he's still a very good goalie. And with the exact same team, and the exact same coach we all know that Halak >> Price.

I find it very strange that Price has managed to battle his way to the top hockey league in the world but is so afraid of real competition that the team has to hire second-rate backups like Auld and Budaj to reassure him.
That might've been right at some time, but I'm sure Price would do exceptionally well in St-Louis.

If anyone's seen the Blues' games, you'd see Halak still kicking rebounds right in front of him. But St-Louis players backcheck very deep and get clear those pucks before it turns into a goal.

He's a very good goalie, but this season does not prove in any way, shape or form, that Halak is and will be the better goalie.

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Old
03-07-2012, 01:46 PM
  #61
llamateizer
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
His stats prove that he's still a very good goalie. And with the exact same team, and the exact same coach we all know that Halak >> Price.

I find it very strange that Price has managed to battle his way to the top hockey league in the world but is so afraid of real competition that the team has to hire second-rate backups like Auld and Budaj to reassure him.
Halak is a good goalie
yes

the bold statement, no, I dont think like eveyone.


lolwut.
they hired an Auld/Budaj so that they dont invest a 5millions in a 2nd goalie


Halak is supposed to be a goalie #1 with 3.75millions

Elliott used to have better stats than Halak.

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03-07-2012, 02:02 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
Halak is a good goalie
yes

the bold statement, no, I dont think like eveyone.


lolwut.
they hired an Auld/Budaj so that they dont invest a 5millions in a 2nd goalie


Halak is supposed to be a goalie #1 with 3.75millions

Elliott used to have better stats than Halak.
Price lost his job to Halak and he never won it back. He got it back by default. I don't see how anybody can argue otherwise.

As for Auld/Budaj, the team purposefully went and got the lowest salaried goalies they could find out there. Great insurance policy there, and a great way to remove any doubts form Price's mind.

I question the mental strenght of any athlete who needs this kind of treatment.

I said so at the time, but I would have kept Halak and traded Price for a king's ransom to shore up the rest of the team. THAT would have been a gutsy move.

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Old
03-07-2012, 02:21 PM
  #63
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I've always thought that Dagenais, like MAB, could have been a serviceable asset for this team if he had been used properly to maximise his strenghts and hide his weaknesses.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a shootout or pp specialist as my 13th forward or 7th d-man rather than a goon or an AHLer.
Right on !

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Old
03-07-2012, 02:24 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
Halak is a good goalie
yes

the bold statement, no, I dont think like eveyone.


lolwut.
they hired an Auld/Budaj so that they dont invest a 5millions in a 2nd goalie


Halak is supposed to be a goalie #1 with 3.75millions

Elliott used to have better stats than Halak.
better to invest 7,5 million on a4th line center...

They could had kept both Halak and Price for a while.

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Old
03-07-2012, 02:32 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
Price lost his job to Halak and he never won it back. He got it back by default. I don't see how anybody can argue otherwise.

As for Auld/Budaj, the team purposefully went and got the lowest salaried goalies they could find out there. Great insurance policy there, and a great way to remove any doubts form Price's mind.

I question the mental strenght of any athlete who needs this kind of treatment.

I said so at the time, but I would have kept Halak and traded Price for a king's ransom to shore up the rest of the team. THAT would have been a gutsy move.
Why would've the habs got more for price than Halak?
you told it yourself that Halak is better than Price

St-louis signed Elliott to back Halak
he was signed after coming from a 15-27-9 3.34 .896

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Old
03-07-2012, 03:19 PM
  #66
Hermamoud
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ok just to be clear, I had nothing but Junior B hockey experience, and I played 4 games in the FHL this season. It is an absolute joke of a hockey league, a few ex NHL'ers surrounded by Division 2 NCAA guys and ex Junior A guys.
I'm really curious. Can you give more details about that league?

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Old
03-07-2012, 04:06 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Because every ****ing one of you cried your heart out about how Tom freaking Pyatt couldn't put a goal in an open net, and how Benoit mother****ing Pouliot couldn't take a shift without falling on his ass.

This ****ing city man. The ****ing people in this city man. Unbelievable.
Thing is while both of them might not be the case stats wise, the Habs surely have the worst team in the league for giving up on their players, or trading their players for NOTHING and see them having some kind of success with their new team. Obviously, we are not talking about that statswise for any of them. But would they be worst than what we actually have????

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It was David ****ing Krejci man. He sure is flourishing in Boston, I think the ice cleanliness is up since he signed there and he still scores some highlight goals with droughts in between. Flourishing I tell you.
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Pouliot ain't flourishing nowhere
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Pouilot has 21 points in 60 games. Do you understand what the word flourish means?
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
To be fair, I think Pouliot is actually on a worse pace this year than he was last year with us.

So that makes one out of how many?
There are things calls "watching games" and see that his overall play has improved. Yet, my comment was mostly based on an overall comment I keep making about a whole lot of our ex-players that are actually flourishing play wise and stats wise. Clearly, Pouliot isn't one of them on the stats sheet. We'll see how he improves as his career develops if ever. Yet, flourish or not on the stats sheet, if coached properly and with a good surrounding, something tells me he wouldn't be the worst player out there for us.

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Old
03-07-2012, 04:09 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by walsy37 View Post
You know, I was a big believer in Price and really thought that the Habs made the right call in trading Halak. I was not a believer in the return and thought that we should have gotten more. That said I hope that I will continue to eat crow as Eller progresses. But have any of you seen Halak's stats this year? Do we still think that we made the correct call? That being said, Halak has not shown that he can play 65 games at this level, but those stats are unreal.

W-L-OTL 22-10-5 SV% .926 GAA 1.89 SO 6
Halak got 20 shots last night, Price had 18 in one period. Hitchcock is doing a hell of a job

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Old
03-07-2012, 07:56 PM
  #69
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Price lost his job to Halak and he never won it back. He got it back by default. I don't see how anybody can argue otherwise.

As for Auld/Budaj, the team purposefully went and got the lowest salaried goalies they could find out there. Great insurance policy there, and a great way to remove any doubts form Price's mind.

I question the mental strenght of any athlete who needs this kind of treatment.

I said so at the time, but I would have kept Halak and traded Price for a king's ransom to shore up the rest of the team. THAT would have been a gutsy move.
It seems very easy to argue that Price won back his job. You say he got it back by default. What does that mean? The Habs were forced to trade Halak and keep Price by some default rule I am unaware of?

The fact is, that Halak lost his job in Montreal to Price. Even if Price had to win it from Halak after that he certainly did that last year.

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Old
03-07-2012, 08:44 PM
  #70
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It seems very easy to argue that Price won back his job. You say he got it back by default. What does that mean? The Habs were forced to trade Halak and keep Price by some default rule I am unaware of?

The fact is, that Halak lost his job in Montreal to Price. Even if Price had to win it from Halak after that he certainly did that last year.
Wut? U serious?

In the 2009-2010 regular season (GS, W, L, OTL, GAA, SV%)

Halak 43 26 13 5 2.40 .920
Price 39 13 20 5 2.77 .910

In the playoffs

Halak 18 9 9 0 2.55 .920
Price 1 0 1 0 3.56 .890

Hmmmmm... sure looks to me like somebody lost their starting job...

Please tell me how he won it back?

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Old
03-07-2012, 09:26 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
Price lost his job to Halak and he never won it back. He got it back by default. I don't see how anybody can argue otherwise.

As for Auld/Budaj, the team purposefully went and got the lowest salaried goalies they could find out there. Great insurance policy there, and a great way to remove any doubts form Price's mind.

I question the mental strenght of any athlete who needs this kind of treatment.

I said so at the time, but I would have kept Halak and traded Price for a king's ransom to shore up the rest of the team. THAT would have been a gutsy move.
Price got the starting job back because management decided that he was the better option going forward; they were not forced to trade Halak, so nothing happened by default. You think that Halak is the better goaltender, yet you also think that you would have been able to trade Price for "a king's ransom". If Halak is truly better, wouldn't the Canadiens have received less than Eller and Schultz in return for Price?

In case anyone hasn't noticed, Jaro Halak has been the second best goaltender on the St. Louis Blues this year, yet I don't hear anyone suggesting that Brian Elliot is superior to Carey Price. While Price gets to carry the load in Montreal, Halak has someone to share duties in a city where hockey is not a big deal. How would Halak be doing in Montreal if he had stayed and put up the numbers he did last season and the first month of this season?

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03-07-2012, 09:52 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by CTHabsfan View Post
Price got the starting job back because management decided that he was the better option going forward; they were not forced to trade Halak, so nothing happened by default. You think that Halak is the better goaltender, yet you also think that you would have been able to trade Price for "a king's ransom". If Halak is truly better, wouldn't the Canadiens have received less than Eller and Schultz in return for Price?

In case anyone hasn't noticed, Jaro Halak has been the second best goaltender on the St. Louis Blues this year, yet I don't hear anyone suggesting that Brian Elliot is superior to Carey Price. While Price gets to carry the load in Montreal, Halak has someone to share duties in a city where hockey is not a big deal. How would Halak be doing in Montreal if he had stayed and put up the numbers he did last season and the first month of this season?
We already know how he did in Montréal, that's the point. He stole Carey Price's job. And Price's reputation has always benefited from his status as a top draft pick, junior canadian hero on a stacked team, and from the exposure in Montréal. He would have and could still bring us a lot more than Halak did at the time.

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Old
03-08-2012, 12:08 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Pouliot's spot was taken by Desharnais and Cole coming in. The top 9 was supposed to be AK Eller DD Cole Pacioretty Gomez Plekanec Cammy and Gionta.

The 4th line was to have Darche White Moen on the wings, Pyatt is not an upgrade on any of those guys. Engqvist and Nokelainen are centers who replaced Halpern who wanted to play at home in Washington.
Pyatt can/does play C, is a clear upgrade on Engvist (who was pencilled into 4th line to start season) & would have made trading for Noke unnecessary.

Engqvist wasn't ready for NHL duty, which Gauthier realized once the season started thus requiring the Noke trade... that's poor evaluation. Pyatt could have been kept at minimal cost, is a versatile 4th line player, and could easily have been waived/sent down to hamilton IF engqvist took his spot in training camp.

Pouliot offered cheap top-9 depth, good enough for the cup champions, but not good enough to fight for a spot in our lineup? I don't buy it.

Problem with what our top-9 "should have been" is that there was absolutely ZERO depth behind it... and once injuries started to hit us this reality became painfully clear.

of that top-9 going into the season, only eller, plekanec & DD didn't have recent problems with staying healthy, and DD was far from a "safe bet" to be an effective top-9 player.

letting Pouliot walk for nothing, and not replacing him at all, depth-wise, was a bad decision both at the time & obviously in hindsight...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Pyatt and Pouliot were both RFAs. You think Gauthier never offered them to other teams before letting them go for free?

Nobody wanted to trade for them. Deal with it.
the problem is that we didn't "deal with" our lack of depth, and it hurt us badly.

those 2 players were cheap, in-house, depth that we could easily afford and that we ended up needing early in the season (forcing the trade for Noke, and the revolving door call-ups of Palushaj, Leblanc, Engqvist).

i couldn't care less about Pouliot or Pyatt from an emotional level, and obviously they aren't "irreplaceable" assets.

but, as often with this leadership group, failure to properly manage & evaluate the assets they have ended up directly costing the team.

careful planning and preparation are vital as a GM, and all we've seen from Gauthier this year is the desperation type moves of a guy that clearly wasn't prepared & doesn't have a clear vision.

Pouliot & Pyatt were easy solutions to a depth problem he very poorly underestimated.

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Old
03-08-2012, 06:30 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
We already know how he did in Montréal, that's the point. He stole Carey Price's job. And Price's reputation has always benefited from his status as a top draft pick, junior canadian hero on a stacked team, and from the exposure in Montréal. He would have and could still bring us a lot more than Halak did at the time.
We know how Jaro Halak did in Montreal when he was the underdog, 271st overall draft pick who was not expected to play 70+ games. How he would do if Price were traded and he was "the man" can only be speculated.

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03-08-2012, 06:55 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by CTHabsfan View Post
We know how Jaro Halak did in Montreal when he was the underdog, 271st overall draft pick who was not expected to play 70+ games. How he would do if Price were traded and he was "the man" can only be speculated.
I would say he was pretty good being "the man" in the playoffs. You can speculate all you want, but in every head to head battle they have had, Halak won. I know I'm in the minority on this, but for me:

(Halak on the Habs + Price's trade value) > (Price on the Habs + Lars Eller)

And with Price's new contract this summer, that > might become a >>.

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