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Pessimism or Realism?

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Old
02-05-2006, 01:21 PM
  #26
The Tikkanen
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If you've been a King fan for a long time you're probably considered a pessimist by the newer King fans who haven't been around long enough to know that if things are going good for the Kings they will eventually turn bad. At some point in time the newer King fans will "jump off the bandwagon" and come to the realization that this team is not interested in winning, it hasn't been since AEG took over. Then they will stop buying season seats or going to the games and will be considered pessimists by the newer new King fans after another uniform change or Steve Duchesne signing. It's an endless cycle of mediocrity, the smart people can open their eyes and see a pattern over 36 years. In conclusion, if you are a King fan and considered a pessimist you are a realist.

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02-05-2006, 01:35 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen
If you've been a King fan for a long time you're probably considered a pessimist by the newer King fans who haven't been around long enough to know that if things are going good for the Kings they will eventually turn bad. At some point in time the newer King fans will "jump off the bandwagon" and come to the realization that this team is not interested in winning, it hasn't been since AEG took over. Then they will stop buying season seats or going to the games and will be considered pessimists by the newer new King fans after another uniform change or Steve Duchesne signing. It's an endless cycle of mediocrity, the smart people can open their eyes and see a pattern over 36 years. In conclusion, if you are a King fan and considered a pessimist you are a realist.
That about sums it up in my opinion.

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02-05-2006, 01:43 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen
If you've been a King fan for a long time you're probably considered a pessimist by the newer King fans who haven't been around long enough to know that if things are going good for the Kings they will eventually turn bad. At some point in time the newer King fans will "jump off the bandwagon" and come to the realization that this team is not interested in winning, it hasn't been since AEG took over. Then they will stop buying season seats or going to the games and will be considered pessimists by the newer new King fans after another uniform change or Steve Duchesne signing. It's an endless cycle of mediocrity, the smart people can open their eyes and see a pattern over 36 years. In conclusion, if you are a King fan and considered a pessimist you are a realist.


Brilliant!

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02-05-2006, 02:10 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen
If you've been a King fan for a long time you're probably considered a pessimist by the newer King fans who haven't been around long enough to know that if things are going good for the Kings they will eventually turn bad. At some point in time the newer King fans will "jump off the bandwagon" and come to the realization that this team is not interested in winning, it hasn't been since AEG took over. Then they will stop buying season seats or going to the games and will be considered pessimists by the newer new King fans after another uniform change or Steve Duchesne signing. It's an endless cycle of mediocrity, the smart people can open their eyes and see a pattern over 36 years. In conclusion, if you are a King fan and considered a pessimist you are a realist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
That about sums it up in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swinginutter


Brilliant!
How can it be brilliant with such gaping holes of logical consistency?

Here's one to start: the team is 'not interested in winning since AEG took over' and this is 'a pattern over 36 years'.

What?!?!?

Here's another (frequently heard): AEG is only interested in profits, not winning.

Wouldn't winning the cup bring them the MOST profits?

I don't mind some intelligent criticism of the owners, the management, the players, but I haven't seen it in this thread.

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02-05-2006, 02:41 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearney
How can it be brilliant with such gaping holes of logical consistency?

Here's one to start: the team is 'not interested in winning since AEG took over' and this is 'a pattern over 36 years'.
Though the pattern of losing over the last 36 years is the same the dedication to winning from the ownership has not. Even though McNall had his problems he was way more interested in winning than in bringing in profits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearney
Here's another (frequently heard): AEG is only interested in profits, not winning.

Wouldn't winning the cup bring them the MOST profits?
The problem with your view is that you think that the winning will come immediately after ownership puts up the money. Not so. For them to be dedicated to winning (without the profits being a consideration) they have to be willing to take a few (acceptable) losses financially (over a span of 2 or 3 years) to create a winner. Problem with that is the ownership is "not" willing to take those losses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearney
I don't mind some intelligent criticism of the owners, the management, the players, but I haven't seen it in this thread.
Thanks for adding your "intelligence" to the thread.

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02-05-2006, 02:59 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearney
Here's another (frequently heard): AEG is only interested in profits, not winning.

Wouldn't winning the cup bring them the MOST profits?
Not even close.

It all depends how you look at AEG. Did AEG buy the Kings because they knew they could turn the franchise around and make a nice profit or did they buy the Kings as the catalyst for Downtown redevelopment?

AEG is currently developing "LA Live" across the street from Staples. It's a BILLION dollar plus project. The City of LA is giving AEG $20 million in public subsidies and letting them keep $246 million in bed taxes generated by the hotel.

AEG could spend a bunch more money on the hope that they might win the Cup, or they could spend as little as they have to to keep butts in the seats and hope for a miracle in the playoffs where they keep telling us "anything can happen".

AEG has their money on the sure thing.....

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02-05-2006, 03:04 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
Thanks for adding your "intelligence" to the thread.
In my view this ownership/management team has shown a sincere effort towards long-term success. The best evidence is their purchasing of the Monarchs and their deliberate building of a scouting and development system.

They have also made short-term efforts to win which have been unpredictably torpedoed by injuries (Allison, Deadmarsh, etc.) and underachievement (Ronning, Straka, Carter, etc.).

I'm glad they haven't fallen into the NYR trap of going for instant success through big-name big-dollar free agent signings.

Of course you can point to decisions that look like mistakes in retrospect. Any transaction is risky. The game is played on the ice.

29 out of 30 teams will lose the cup. You guys make it sound like it's the easiest thing in the world.


Last edited by Kearney: 02-05-2006 at 03:09 PM.
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02-05-2006, 03:08 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
AEG is currently developing "LA Live" across the street from Staples. It's a BILLION dollar plus project. The City of LA is giving AEG $20 million in public subsidies and letting them keep $246 million in bed taxes generated by the hotel.
I'm aware of all of that. It doesn't negate the simple fact that the team's success translates directly to financial gain for AEG. The further the Kings go in the playoffs, the more money AEG will make. We should hope they're ruthless businessmen.

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02-05-2006, 03:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearney
In my view this ownership/management team has shown a sincere effort towards long-term success. The best evidence is their purchasing of the Monarchs and their deliberate building of a scouting and development system.

They have also made short-term efforts to win which have been unpredictably torpedoed by injuries (Allison, Deadmarsh, etc.) and underachievement (Ronning, Straka, Carter, etc.).

I'm glad they haven't fallen into the NYR trap of going for instant success through big-name big-dollar free agent signings.

Of course you can point to decisions that look like mistakes in retrospect. Any transaction is risky. The game is played on the ice.

29 out of 30 teams will lose the cup. You guys make it sound like it's the easiest thing in the world.

Who said it was easy? Constantly trying to ice the proper team is part of making the club a success. Do you think Tampa's cup run last year was built through the draft.....Same for Calgary. Clubs that try to improve themselves through out the course of the year seem a bit more serious. Standing pat is what this club does on a constant. Everybody loves the lifestyle that So Cal can give.........especially waking up to sunny days, 95% of the year, and babes everywhere you go. So it's not a matter of players wanting to play for this club. It has to do with the seriousness of our owners. When was the last time you seen Anschutz? I haven't seen the ****ing guy since he bought the club. McNall was at every game. Same goes for those boneheads in Anaheim.
If you're serious about winning........it would show with the lifeline you're giving players. Yes, this is a business. But building around our talent is not something we're great at. We have great young players in the system that are being devalued at why we got them. Why is it that Detroit, Colorado, Dallas, New Jersey..etc...draft so well. They play their young talent with top end players thus giving them confidence and experience to play in the NHL. If they don't pan out after a few years....they're moved! I can't remember the last time Colorado didn't have some player nobody heard about score 30 goals.....This year it's Svatos turn.
We have too many examples of top end players playing a straight x's and o's game that look like **** because of it!

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02-05-2006, 03:33 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearney
In my view this ownership/management team has shown a sincere effort towards long-term success. The best evidence is their purchasing of the Monarchs
Before we go getting all choked-up over their sincerity in Manchester, let's not lose sight of the fact that the arena management contract for the VWA in Manchester would be a nice addition to the AEG portfolio...

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02-05-2006, 03:47 PM
  #36
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Just for kicks and knowing that the number will probably be inflated since this is the internet, how long has Kearney been a King fan?

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02-05-2006, 04:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen
Just for kicks and knowing that the number will probably be inflated since this is the internet, how long has Kearney been a King fan?
From my first awareness of hockey (let's say 1974) I was a Minnesota North Stars fan. (I played HS hockey in MN and my team won the state championship when I was a senior). About the time the North Stars moved to Dallas I moved to a rural state with no nearby team. So I had no loyalities but remained a huge fan of the sport. I moved to LA and became a Kings fan in 1998. Sorry if my credentials aren't hardcore enough for ya.

I will admit I'm a hockey fan first and a Kings fan second. Blind loyalty to an abstraction has never made a lot of sense to me, and I see from these boards that it doesn't tend to generate a lot of happiness.

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02-05-2006, 05:14 PM
  #38
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Your credentials are hardcore enough, but it is easy to tell that your Kings experience is somewhat limited compared to some of us old farts.

You have remember that when some of us became Kings fans, there really weren't any other hockey options available - no college hockey to speak of, no high school hockey anywhere, even less coverage in the local papers than today, etc. The closest team was 400 miles away - and Oakland didn't last long. The next closest team might have been Vancouver until Colorado joined the league.

You were either a Kings hockey fan or you weren't a hockey fan. As a result, many of us have been patiently waiting for the Kings to win for 30+ years.

Excuses and admonishes for patience lose their luster after multiple decades.

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02-05-2006, 05:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
You have remember that when some of us became Kings fans, there really weren't any other hockey options available - no college hockey to speak of, no high school hockey anywhere, even less coverage in the local papers than today, etc. The closest team was 400 miles away - and Oakland didn't last long. The next closest team might have been Vancouver until Colorado joined the league.

You were either a Kings hockey fan or you weren't a hockey fan. As a result, many of us have been patiently waiting for the Kings to win for 30+ years.

Excuses and admonishes for patience lose their luster after multiple decades.
Understood and appreciated. But you must admit that whatever happened in the first ~25 years really has no bearing on what's happening now. No matter how much frustration is simmering on reserve, I hope no one wants them to go for the Florida Marlins-style quick fix at the expense of the long term health of the team.

And, to be clear, I am not making excuses for anyone, and I'd like to see a significant deal made in the next few days.

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02-05-2006, 08:16 PM
  #40
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I've been following the kings for 17 years...guzmania has been following them since '67...so there.

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02-05-2006, 09:07 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
I've been following the kings for 17 years...
Newbie


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02-05-2006, 10:08 PM
  #42
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Just from '75 j-fo...

My take, the season must play itself out, on it's own, we can't even nudge it, no matter what we want or write or worry very deeply about here at Hockey's Future. PSP has very valid opinions and an emotional make-up that is focused on what can go wrong, mine makes me focus on bacon and eggs tomorrow for breakfast ummmm ... breakfast good!

To win the cup all the cards must fall right. Might happen. But in reality, probably not. When we get to Red Sox numbers for futility PSP and I will be shackled wrist and ankles.

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02-06-2006, 12:00 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzmania
Just from '75 j-fo...

My take, the season must play itself out, on it's own, we can't even nudge it, no matter what we want or write or worry very deeply about here at Hockey's Future. PSP has very valid opinions and an emotional make-up that is focused on what can go wrong, mine makes me focus on bacon and eggs tomorrow for breakfast ummmm ... breakfast good!

To win the cup all the cards must fall right. Might happen. But in reality, probably not. When we get to Red Sox numbers for futility PSP and I will be shackled wrist and ankles.
I agree that the Kings history of futility could be worse (meaning more than 39 years) but at least the Red Sox could claim that had won a championship 100 years ago. The Kings can never claim that. I don't know if any of you have ever seen this web page. But I stumbled on it the other day and it made me even more depressed about my team.......

http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/teams/history/LA

The most depressing part......

League Championships.....none
Conference Championships....1 (1993)
Division Championships.....1 (1991)

I guarantee you that no other team in the NHL who has been around longer than 30 years has only 1 Division Championship.


Last edited by Captain Ron: 02-06-2006 at 12:11 AM.
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