Exactly...the Jr. Pirates will play in the EJHL then in the new league/USHL the following season. You are right about the seating requirements of Tier I leagues. They must be making exceptions.
As for arenas in the area theres not many...I always thought the New Hampshire Junior Monarchs could play in the Verizon Wireless Arena in Manchester, but with Sean Tremblay leaving for the New England Huskies are they an option for the new league?
Maybe you have some teams using local college rinks? You don't think Hockey East/ECAC coaches would love that? I know theres would have to be negotiating I am sure for that to happen.
It seems like a pipe dream, but there has been smoke so there must a fire somewhere.
How about a team in Lowell? I think that works out pretty well with Tsongas.
I think the VWA is WAY too big for USHL action, imo. Don't get me wrong, it's up there in terms of my favorite arenas in hockey but...I don't think it works.
Its nice compared to what it use to be before the Maineiacs came to town...I didn't wear my 100 dollar pair of shoes to the arena before the Maineiacs came to town
No one appreciated the work the Maineiacs did for the sport in that town
Ok Ok. Maybe poor choice of words since I've never been there. Better?
Quote:
OK, so help me out though. Lewiston has a sufficiently large arena that the JR Pirates could move into if there actually is this hypothetical new tier 1 league. What about all those other teams. Too lazy to look it up, but doesn't a new tier 1 team have to have an arena that seats roughly 4,000?
The whole Portland Pirates/Portland Jr. Pirates/Firland Management/MHG to USHL is really confusing because there are so many moving parts; even two of the parties, who are no relation to each other, have the same last name. i.e. Ron Cain/Jim Cain
The simplest way that I can explain is the Portland Pirates, LLC, which owns the Pirates, Jr. Pirates, MHG including the MHG Ice Complex is Saco are partnering up with Firland Management, who own the Colisee in Lewiston with the plan to manage the facility and own a USHL or Tier 1 equivalent team as part an Eastern Seaboard expansion.
The EJHL moving up theory doesn’t hold a lot of water to me because Ron Cain – owner of MHG – just moved the Green Mountain Glades to Saco so they could play in the new MHG Ice Arena so moving them here, to move them up to Lewiston, leaves his new 1,000 seat arena empty which doesn’t make sense.
I think logical thing to happen is those clubs that have been mentioned might purchase USHL/Tier 1 franchises and operate them in another facility, while still running their EJ operation which is a significant money generator for those operations. It’s a big difference between “pay-to-play” vs. “ticket based” revenue and those teams still need to bring in dollars in order to operate.
The Pirates are putting themselves in a position with the renovation to their home for the AHL team to the possibly manage MHG, Colisee, and CCCC and control all major hockey in the state – except for the Black Bears. Only time will tell if that comes to fruition, but that’s the plan.
Here's the first summary I found on the Lewiston press conference. Doesn't sound like a whole lot that we didn't already know. They plan the junior team playing in the Colisee. There is a closer partnership between groups. They want to bring the USHL to the east coast, to which the author speculates could be done by 2013-2014.
Here's the first summary I found on the Lewiston press conference. Doesn't sound like a whole lot that we didn't already know. They plan the junior team playing in the Colisee. There is a closer partnership between groups. They want to bring the USHL to the east coast, to which the author speculates could be done by 2013-2014.
The hope is the arena would be ready for the 2012-13 season. It will seat 4,100 for hockey games and cost 34 million. No official comment from the USHL yet, but time will tell.
The Marion hockey teams from the past played in Ohio. Can a city of 30,000 and county of 70,000 support a USHL team? Green Bay has 100,000 people, Brown County has 250,000 people and a 10,000 seat arena for their USHL team.
Is USHL expansion on the horizion?? By Nathan Fournier Published: 6th March 2012
Quote:
Lewiston, ME – Is the USHL closer to eastern expansion?
If you listen to the Maine Hockey Group and Firland Management they are.
The Maine Hockey Group led by Ron Cain and Firland Management led by Jim Cain (no relation) believe they are less two away from having an USHL franchise calling Lewiston home.
The Marion hockey teams from the past played in Ohio. Can a city of 30,000 and county of 70,000 support a USHL team? Green Bay has 100,000 people, Brown County has 250,000 people and a 10,000 seat arena for their USHL team.
In a previous article from Slightly Chilled there was a quote about how Marion is a growing town. I sure hope so because it's still kinda small. I've been wondering though. They couldn't have planned this, but the timing might work out where if they are on track to finish for the 2012-2013 season, could it be a temporary home for the Indianapolis Ice? It's close enough that they'd have an instant fan base. It would show locals how good a product the USHL can be. Give it two years, and when the Ice move out, you have a good sample to decide if Marion can get their own team.
The Ice due to a conflict will schedule a game in the Compton Ice Arena at Notre Dame. That could be another interesting temporary home. If Marion was getting a team it would help to have two in Indiana as I'm sure a rivalry would also help build a fan base in Marion.
The rumors began to make their way around New England hockey circles on March 1. They were confirmed the next day and created quite a buzz at the New England Prep School Ice Hockey Championships.
Long time head coach of the Eastern Junior Hockey League’s New Hampshire Junior Monarchs, Sean Tremblay, announced to his players that he is leaving the organization after this season’s playoffs have ended.
Tremblay is in his tenth season as coach of the Monarchs. During that span, his teams have won six Dineen Cups as EJHL champions. He has developed over 100 Division I NCAA players and close to 50 Division III players. Nine former Monarchs have been drafted by National Hockey League teams.
Tremblay is leaving the friendly confines of Hooksett, N.H., for Tyngsboro, Mass., where he will take over the reigns of the New England Huskies.
Tremblay is a big player in changes that the Huskies are making. They are changing their name to Middlesex Islanders and strong rumor winds were blowing among scouts at the tournament that the Huskies will move from Skate 3 Arena in 2013 to take up residence at Merrimack College where the club will become an expansion franchise in the United States Hockey League.
It is also rumored that the USHL will welcome new franchises in two or three other New England states for the start of the 2013 season. Such a move would seriously change the climate of junior hockey in the region.
So let me ask a question to those more familiar with the northeast hockey culture. If the USHL did expand in that area, obviously they would want to concentrate all the potential New England NCAA D1 talent into their league. Let's just assume that they can successfully pull this off and they become the league of choice.
So who are the current leagues that would be most affected by this? Where does the majority of that D1 talent come from currently? Who is the main competition that would feel the biggest loss of talent?
For example the more traditional development path for many midwest states is AAA, then USHL or NAHL depending on skill. Obviously Minnesota has a strong high school system. So what path(s) does top talent currently take in New England? Is Mass different than the rest or are most states the same? What's the mix between top prep schools, high school hockey, and the EJHL? Are there others? Are top players pretty dispersed among these different leagues, or is there a clear favorite?
The EJHL and the AJHL will be most effected because those are the two USA Hockey Junior A Leagues...Then you have New England Prep League and Mass High Schools that would be the next to be effected. Then potentially the best high school players from the other New England States.
OK thanks. Wasn't sure what the mix between the Tier 3 leagues vs prep & high school was.
Another point of interest. The USHL just started to allow a tender system. This allows them to skip their draft and offer a spot to a player directly, at the cost of a first round pick, and a second (two tenders max). They have to gaurantee that player gets a certain number of games as a 16 year old though, so it better be for top end talent.
There would likely be a few top end Mass hockey players that may be hesitant to go for the USHL knowing they could potentially get drafted to who knows where. Why leave when you can play for a good local team? If a Mass based team could directly tender these players allowing them to stay close to home, they would be much more likely to go to the USHL and have it all.
This is a great idea in theory because it'll attract a lot of players from the East Coast prep schools, but one has to wonder about diluting talent. Prince has already said the league is done expanding after Muskegon and the NTDP joined (I would assume he was talking solely about in the Midwest) for the next couple of years. Increased travel costs is also a major concern and we've all seen what happens when leagues get too geographically big with the current minor league structure in the US.
This is a great idea in theory because it'll attract a lot of players from the East Coast prep schools, but one has to wonder about diluting talent. Prince has already said the league is done expanding after Muskegon and the NTDP joined (I would assume he was talking solely about in the Midwest) for the next couple of years. Increased travel costs is also a major concern and we've all seen what happens when leagues get too geographically big with the current minor league structure in the US.
All your points are valid and all the points I hear when I talk to people about the USHL coming East. I don't think the USHL is coming for 13-14, it's just too soon, but I think the USHL is being very tight lipped right now about their expansion intentions.
Why else in the world would Sean Tremblay leave the Jr. Monarchs where he has it made? Right now it's a parallel move, there must be a new challenge down the line for him I believe.
This is a great idea in theory because it'll attract a lot of players from the East Coast prep schools, but one has to wonder about diluting talent. Prince has already said the league is done expanding after Muskegon and the NTDP joined (I would assume he was talking solely about in the Midwest) for the next couple of years. Increased travel costs is also a major concern and we've all seen what happens when leagues get too geographically big with the current minor league structure in the US.
If the USHL wants to keep expanding they should looking into a system more like Canadian Jr. Hockey and could operate a system like the CHL with a Northeastern League, their current midwestern footprint, and a western league. In fact, if they want to expand, west may be a better option because the Northeast is staurated with high school prep school, Jr hockey, college, minor pro, and NHL teams. There's some western NAHL teams: Fresno and Wenatchee, that are esentially separated from rest of the NAHL and also play in Tier I capable buildings.
If the USHL wants to keep expanding they should looking into a system more like Canadian Jr. Hockey and could operate a system like the CHL with a Northeastern League, their current midwestern footprint, and a western league. In fact, if they want to expand, west may be a better option because the Northeast is staurated with high school prep school, Jr hockey, college, minor pro, and NHL teams. There's some western NAHL teams: Fresno and Wenatchee, that are esentially separated from rest of the NAHL and also play in Tier I capable buildings.
I agree with you, to an extent. I don't like the idea of the USHL having to potentially fly between the midwest and the northeast. I think long term it makes sense to have the northeast be it's own league with limited, if any crossover to the midwest. In order to get there, I see how you start with a few teams as their own division but still play against the midwest. Once (if?) they prove to be a successful venture, you grow with the idea of breaking into a separate league down the road.
In my mind, the only purpose USHL northeast would serve is to collect the top talent of that area into a tier 1 league. It sure can't just be to make money, because as you mention it would be a tough fight with the saturated market. Right now (correct me if I'm wrong) I get the idea talent is spread out between several spots in the high school / prep / EJHL leagues. The only reason I would take on the northeast is to put the best all in one spot and have them play against one another to help foster better competition and development. Expansion should only be considered against the ability to recruit local top talent and maintain that competitive balance.
All that is why, in my mind, it doesn't make sense for the USHL to go west. They are chasing top talent and not open markets. Sure there's room out west, but why pull kids from all over the country to arbitrarily play out west? If they just needed new teams for revenue, might as well try to expand within the midwest and keep costs down.
I agree with you, to an extent. I don't like the idea of the USHL having to potentially fly between the midwest and the northeast. I think long term it makes sense to have the northeast be it's own league with limited, if any crossover to the midwest. In order to get there, I see how you start with a few teams as their own division but still play against the midwest. Once (if?) they prove to be a successful venture, you grow with the idea of breaking into a separate league down the road.
In my mind, the only purpose USHL northeast would serve is to collect the top talent of that area into a tier 1 league. It sure can't just be to make money, because as you mention it would be a tough fight with the saturated market. Right now (correct me if I'm wrong) I get the idea talent is spread out between several spots in the high school / prep / EJHL leagues. The only reason I would take on the northeast is to put the best all in one spot and have them play against one another to help foster better competition and development. Expansion should only be considered against the ability to recruit local top talent and maintain that competitive balance.
All that is why, in my mind, it doesn't make sense for the USHL to go west. They are chasing top talent and not open markets. Sure there's room out west, but why pull kids from all over the country to arbitrarily play out west? If they just needed new teams for revenue, might as well try to expand within the midwest and keep costs down.
I will disagree with you little bit here. Yes it would get to the top flight talent, but if you look at the Maine Hockey Group, they are trying to make as much money as possible. They have youth teams from learn to skate to Midgets in Saco and just bought all the available youth ice time at the Colisee in Lewiston for next season to have a second set of youth teams. Basically it left the local youth association (non profit) without a home after 40 years in the Colisee.
A potential USHL team is another asset they will have to make money on. Will they? Who knows but getting an USHL team is a business decision first hockey decision second. Will othef New England markets make money depends where they located, but I think its an uphill battle either way
I will disagree with you little bit here. Yes it would get to the top flight talent, but if you look at the Maine Hockey Group, they are trying to make as much money as possible. They have youth teams from learn to skate to Midgets in Saco and just bought all the available youth ice time at the Colisee in Lewiston for next season to have a second set of youth teams. Basically it left the local youth association (non profit) without a home after 40 years in the Colisee.
A potential USHL team is another asset they will have to make money on. Will they? Who knows but getting an USHL team is a business decision first hockey decision second. Will othef New England markets make money depends where they located, but I think its an uphill battle either way
True, Maine Hockey Group's motivation is still money. It is a business after all. But they aren't getting a USHL franchise because they want one. Remember the USHL may have different motivations. They have many groups that apply to join every year. I am sure the USHL could expand into any number of areas and make money. So why move into the northeast that's gotta be a tougher market to make money in while increasing travel costs?
I agree with you, to an extent. I don't like the idea of the USHL having to potentially fly between the midwest and the northeast. I think long term it makes sense to have the northeast be it's own league with limited, if any crossover to the midwest. In order to get there, I see how you start with a few teams as their own division but still play against the midwest. Once (if?) they prove to be a successful venture, you grow with the idea of breaking into a separate league down the road.
In my mind, the only purpose USHL northeast would serve is to collect the top talent of that area into a tier 1 league. It sure can't just be to make money, because as you mention it would be a tough fight with the saturated market. Right now (correct me if I'm wrong) I get the idea talent is spread out between several spots in the high school / prep / EJHL leagues. The only reason I would take on the northeast is to put the best all in one spot and have them play against one another to help foster better competition and development. Expansion should only be considered against the ability to recruit local top talent and maintain that competitive balance.
All that is why, in my mind, it doesn't make sense for the USHL to go west. They are chasing top talent and not open markets. Sure there's room out west, but why pull kids from all over the country to arbitrarily play out west? If they just needed new teams for revenue, might as well try to expand within the midwest and keep costs down.
I agree with this completely. No need to expand West as all the best West talent already leaves for the USHL (or the Dub). The NE on the other hand seems to keep a good amount of their talent from the USHL.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the EJ if this goes through. Basically the 3-4 best teams leaving has to impact the future. Though I'm not sure any of those teams draw that well, so gotta wonder how that will work out.
I agree with you, to an extent. I don't like the idea of the USHL having to potentially fly between the midwest and the northeast. I think long term it makes sense to have the northeast be it's own league with limited, if any crossover to the midwest. In order to get there, I see how you start with a few teams as their own division but still play against the midwest. Once (if?) they prove to be a successful venture, you grow with the idea of breaking into a separate league down the road.
In my mind, the only purpose USHL northeast would serve is to collect the top talent of that area into a tier 1 league. It sure can't just be to make money, because as you mention it would be a tough fight with the saturated market. Right now (correct me if I'm wrong) I get the idea talent is spread out between several spots in the high school / prep / EJHL leagues. The only reason I would take on the northeast is to put the best all in one spot and have them play against one another to help foster better competition and development. Expansion should only be considered against the ability to recruit local top talent and maintain that competitive balance.
All that is why, in my mind, it doesn't make sense for the USHL to go west. They are chasing top talent and not open markets. Sure there's room out west, but why pull kids from all over the country to arbitrarily play out west? If they just needed new teams for revenue, might as well try to expand within the midwest and keep costs down.
I agree with you. I don't like the idea of flying between the Northeast and Midwest either, but that appears what is going to happen for now, unless they can add a few more teams and start a northeast division. That's probably the way to go because until the USHL establishes a few teams in that region, it looks like a test. And I'm not sure top Northeastern talent is going to all of the sudden leave the proven routes to college and pros in the Northeast (EJHL and prep school) to be in a test situation.
I disagree with your statement on "chasing top talent and not open markets." While the top talent in the Northeast is fairly entrenched in the current routes to college and pro hockey within the Northeast, the USHL still gets some talent from the Northeast. Some of the lower Jr teams are run as nonprofit orgs, but the USHL is a business. Open markets mean a lot because you can always fill the roster with talent from across the US and some from Canada. Also the talent out west is growing and having a West Coast division or league might actually attract Northeastern talent more than one or two teams in that region ( Sunny and fun Cali > cold and stuck-up prep school).
I agree with you. I don't like the idea of flying between the Northeast and Midwest either, but that appears what is going to happen for now, unless they can add a few more teams and start a northeast division. That's probably the way to go because until the USHL establishes a few teams in that region, it looks like a test. And I'm not sure top Northeastern talent is going to all of the sudden leave the proven routes to college and pros in the Northeast (EJHL and prep school) to be in a test situation.
Out of the necessity created by the geographic reality, the USHL would structure itself similar to how the AJ and Met leagues currently structure themselves.
A few years ago, there was a group in Cleveland looking for a Jr. franchise that I know is still interested in bringing in a higher level Jr. program and the Pittsburgh Forge had a very successful run in the NAHL several years back. Kevin Constantine owned and coached it.
The big issue for all of these cities is going to be a venue with the required seating.
very interesting development none the less, and an exciting one as well. I am all for expansion to the East and especially MINNESOTA!
It just makes too much sense to have teams in those regions. with some of the top players in the East Coast now looking pretty hard at the QMJHL, maybe the USHL is trying its best to give those kids another alternative in their own back yards. kids ofcourse could still bolt to the Q, but I would rather get 1-2 years out of these kids in the USHL then none at all.
hope it happens, and keep working on Minnesota as well.
