Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Is he? Keep in mind, he couldn't even hold on to an AHL starting job last year. He's capable of excellent play, but he's not exactly known for consistency. He has all of 20-some games under his belt this year, not exactly a good sample size. I mean, if you have some hotshot rookie scorer who plays well for half a season, you don't immediately go unloading your #1 center.
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In this trade, the Ducks make a lateral move in regards to goaltending (and they could always get Aebischer or Budaj thrown in if they're really concerned about a backup),
If it's so freaking lateral, maybe other teams should be trying to trade for the cheaper and supposedly just as good Bryzgalov instead. I mean, you seem awfully sold on him, so why not trade for Bryzgalov? Wouldn't have to give up nearly as much, it would cost a lot less on salary, and hey, he's a "starter."
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pick up one of the top young d-men in the game - a guy who's here to stay, no risk
Except their biggest need is still center, as they're pretty well stocked on the blueline. If they trade Giguere without even remotely beginning to fill their biggest need, what's the point? Nothing against Liles, but a player like that isn't what's holding Anaheim back, it's the fact that they've got McDonald and Marchant masquerading as 1st and 2nd line centers.
I suppose they could always trade one of their surplus defenseman for a center, but why do that when they could just trade a goalie for said center and not risk tinkering with their very good defensive chemistry?
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- plus a 1st round draft pick?
Won't be all that high a pick, and mid to late first rounders are severely overrated by people around here. The hit rate in most drafts is not that good.
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Plus the cap space they're saving.
What's the point of cap space if you just open up yet another hole that you have to fill? You're gonna have to spend it anyway if you want to get better, or you can settle for having the most cap space in the league ... do they give out awards for that?
If Giguere is going to be traded it's going to be in the off-season, no way Burke trades him when the Ducks are only 4 points out of a playoff spot. He is not avalible, it was speculation on JD's part.
Agree, it would be dumb to trade him now and leave things to Bryzgalov, who is an athletically gifted player but seems to have issues staying focused.
The big thing to watch on Giguere now is how he follows up that performance in Canada.
If it's so freaking lateral, maybe other teams should be trying to trade for the cheaper and supposedly just as good Bryzgalov instead. I mean, you seem awfully sold on him, so why not trade for Bryzgalov? Wouldn't have to give up nearly as much, it would cost a lot less on salary, and hey, he's a "starter."
I would. Absolutely. I'd happily trade for him. I don't think the Ducks do it. I don't think they invite offers and I don't think they move him for less than something stupid. As I understand it, they're extremely high on Bryzgalov. They see him as their future, a blue chipper. Those are always risky trades to make - Giguere's a proven commodity, Bryzgalov can wash out or he can become another Hasek. You don't get a lot of trades involving players like that. Look at Kipper on SJ. He was buried behind Nabokov, so SJ had a lot of reason to trade him, but with hindsight I think they'd take it back if they could or send Nabokov over. And Kipper was stuck behind Nabby for a while - eventually the Ducks will have to move one of their goaltenders. Maybe not this year, but probably no later than next off-season, especially if Bryzgalov keeps pushing Giguere.
Giguere's relationship with the Ducks has been a little contentious since his hold out. He's older. He's higher priced, maybe even a little over-priced. He's the one they're most likely to move. That's all.
But if the asking price for him is less than Giguere, sure. Take it. Sold. If the Ducks are committed to Giguere being their starter for the next four or five years, then yeah see what they can get for the other guy who's pretty well regarded around the league. Why not?
And hey, maybe Bryzgalov isn't quite ready yet. But it's gonna happen soon. One of them's leaving soon. And if the Ducks really aren't going anywhere this year - and that should be clearer by the deadline - there might be something to be said for taking the chance.
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Except their biggest need is still center, as they're pretty well stocked on the blueline. If they trade Giguere without even remotely beginning to fill their biggest need, what's the point? Nothing against Liles, but a player like that isn't what's holding Anaheim back, it's the fact that they've got McDonald and Marchant masquerading as 1st and 2nd line centers.
I suppose they could always trade one of their surplus defenseman for a center, but why do that when they could just trade a goalie for said center and not risk tinkering with their very good defensive chemistry?
Jeez, if that's the case, Colorado has a much deeper cupboard of young forwards and I'm sure they'd rather move one of them than Liles.
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What's the point of cap space if you just open up yet another hole that you have to fill? You're gonna have to spend it anyway if you want to get better, or you can settle for having the most cap space in the league ... do they give out awards for that?
Well...no. If Anaheim traded Giguere, that's $4 mil or so off the books, yes? They wouldn't have to go shopping for another goaltender, at least not one at that price. But that $4 mil will get them that centre you're so worried about.
I mean, geez, the Ducks just gave away Federov for a much reduced price due to his cap hit. Money saved there, money saved with (a potential) Giguere trade, that's the ability to go shopping in the offseason - shopping where you can round out your team with proven veterans, which makes sculpting pretty easy.
So yeah, Cap space is pretty valuable. Welcome to the new NHL. Look at how salary caps changed the NFL and the NBA. If you're not making the playoffs, if you're not contending or just about to contend for a championship, if you're struggling, cap space is your friend.
Because then you get to go shopping. Look at the Seahawks this year - they had the cap space to go out and re-sign key free agents like Hasselback and Jones and Alexander, plus add stabilizing wide-receiver Joe Jurevicius and replace defectors like Ken Lucas. They saw their biggest needs (resign the core, get some sure-handed wideouts) and were able to fill them. From out of the playoffs to the Super Bowl. Hello. Welcome to free agency and the salary cap era.
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Won't be all that high a pick, and mid to late first rounders are severely overrated by people around here. The hit rate in most drafts is not that good.
Maybe. But both the Ducks and the Avs have a pretty good scouting staff and ability to make the most of those picks. Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Wojtek Wolski...
I would. Absolutely. I'd happily trade for him. I don't think the Ducks do it. I don't think they invite offers and I don't think they move him for less than something stupid. As I understand it, they're extremely high on Bryzgalov.
I don't know about, "extremely high." I'm sure they're happy with his progress, but it was no less than a year ago when it wasn't looking too good for him ... when you get outplayed by Cassivi, it's not a good sign.
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They see him as their future, a blue chipper. Those are always risky trades to make - Giguere's a proven commodity, Bryzgalov can wash out or he can become another Hasek.
The odds of another Hasek are a heck of a lot lower than the chances of him ending up as a decent but nothing special goaltender.
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You don't get a lot of trades involving players like that. Look at Kipper on SJ. He was buried behind Nabokov, so SJ had a lot of reason to trade him, but with hindsight I think they'd take it back if they could or send Nabokov over. And Kipper was stuck behind Nabby for a while - eventually the Ducks will have to move one of their goaltenders. Maybe not this year, but probably no later than next off-season, especially if Bryzgalov keeps pushing Giguere.
Of course, Kiprusoff completely tanked in his big opportunity when Nabokov wasn't signed, so SJ certainly can't be faulted for the decision they made based on the info they had. There's not a team in the league that wouldn't have done the exact same thing given what they saw.
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Giguere's relationship with the Ducks has been a little contentious since his hold out.
How so?
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He's older.
He's 28, Bryzgalov's 25. It's not like we're talking about a young gun vs. an old fart. Both should have many years of productivity left, especially someone like Giguere who relies on technique rather than athleticism.
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He's higher priced, maybe even a little over-priced. He's the one they're most likely to move. That's all.
Yeah but he's not dramatically overpriced. Given what Khabi and (supposedly) Nabokov have been getting and what Luongo will probably get, it's not likely you'd ever get a Giguere-caliber goalie for much cheaper than his current salary on the open market.
And it's not as if there's all that many goalies Giguere's caliber or better who hit the free agent market every year to begin with. There's a lot more star defensemen and forwards available than there are equivalently valued goalies. If goalie were so simple a spot to fill, you wouldn't have all these teams that spend years looking for one.
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But if the asking price for him is less than Giguere, sure. Take it. Sold. If the Ducks are committed to Giguere being their starter for the next four or five years, then yeah see what they can get for the other guy who's pretty well regarded around the league. Why not?
Because Bryzgalov's salary doesn't need to be unloaded, so unless they're at least potentially filling one of their holes, why not just keep Bryzgalov even if they're going with Giguere as their starter?
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Jeez, if that's the case, Colorado has a much deeper cupboard of young forwards and I'm sure they'd rather move one of them than Liles.
Just look at Anaheim's roster ... if you were them, would you want Liles, or an equivalently valued center?
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Well...no. If Anaheim traded Giguere, that's $4 mil or so off the books, yes? They wouldn't have to go shopping for another goaltender, at least not one at that price. But that $4 mil will get them that centre you're so worried about.
I mean, geez, the Ducks just gave away Federov for a much reduced price due to his cap hit.
Fedorov's lack of production, advanced age, 3 remaining years, and $6 mil per ... that's why they had to give him away. Giguere isn't nearly as overpaid, old, or ineffectual.
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Money saved there, money saved with (a potential) Giguere trade, that's the ability to go shopping in the offseason - shopping where you can round out your team with proven veterans, which makes sculpting pretty easy.
The Fedorov trade, Sykora trade, and others coming off the books this summer means they already have plenty of room ... there's little reason why they couldn't add just about any free agent they wanted money-wise as it stands. They don't need to trade Giguere to go sign that center, it's just a question of whether one is available to be signed and whether or not they'll come. And it might be a slight bit easier to convince someone to come when you can point to Giguere as the starter rather than Bryzgalov.
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So yeah, Cap space is pretty valuable. Welcome to the new NHL. Look at how salary caps changed the NFL and the NBA. If you're not making the playoffs, if you're not contending or just about to contend for a championship, if you're struggling, cap space is your friend.
On the other hand, it does you no good to have cap space and a spot to fill (such as center), but then open a hole somewhere else and still not fill that spot. So you have more cap space, so what? If you trade Giguere and then Bryzgalov falters you have two holes to fill now, not one. And you're highly unlikely to get back another Giguere with that cap space ... if it were that easy then you wouldn't have fans on these boards talking about trading for Giguere, they'd just say "let's take that money and go sign someone just as good."
In any case it's hard to compare with the NFL and NBA, since the salary cap systems are so different in each league, but even in those leagues you don't just see rebuilding teams unload salaries willy-nilly ... if you've got a good player who's not too old for ~$4 mil, and you aren't likely to get one any better without shelling out just as much or more, there's no point to trading him.
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Maybe. But both the Ducks and the Avs have a pretty good scouting staff and ability to make the most of those picks. Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Wojtek Wolski...
That's assuming you're picking in a draft that's that deep with talent. Not every draft has blue chip talent going down into the 20's. You can't conjure up a great prospect at your draft spot if all that's left are average ones that have a low chance of blossoming.
That's assuming you're picking in a draft that's that deep with talent. Not every draft has blue chip talent going down into the 20's. You can't conjure up a great prospect at your draft spot if all that's left are average ones that have a low chance of blossoming.
Well, I think I brought up players from 2 different consecutive drafts.
But you're right - maybe Anaheim has no reason to trade Giguere over the next year and a half. But I'm gonna bet that chances are they move one of them in that time frame, and it really might be for the betterment of the team.
You only really need 1 great goaltender, especially in the cap era. And a quality back-up. Look at the Devils (or the Avs or the Stars, for example). Anything else is just an asset on the bench for a 'just in case' that might not happen in exchange for a potentially distracting controversy and a hole in your forward ranks or on your blue line.
It's a luxury. Are the Mighty Ducks the sort of team that can sit back and enjoy their luxuries?
Well, I think I brought up players from 2 different consecutive drafts.
But you're right - maybe Anaheim has no reason to trade Giguere over the next year and a half. But I'm gonna bet that chances are they move one of them in that time frame, and it really might be for the betterment of the team.
You only really need 1 great goaltender, especially in the cap era. And a quality back-up. Look at the Devils (or the Avs or the Stars, for example). Anything else is just an asset on the bench for a 'just in case' that might not happen in exchange for a potentially distracting controversy and a hole in your forward ranks or on your blue line.
It's a luxury. Are the Mighty Ducks the sort of team that can sit back and enjoy their luxuries?
How is it hurting? The Ducks have a pretty reasonable 1/8th of their cap space tied up on goaltending, well-spent since they are one of the top defensive teams in the league, with roughly another 1/8th free to spend as they wish.
Well, I think I brought up players from 2 different consecutive drafts.
But you're right - maybe Anaheim has no reason to trade Giguere over the next year and a half. But I'm gonna bet that chances are they move one of them in that time frame, and it really might be for the betterment of the team.
You only really need 1 great goaltender, especially in the cap era. And a quality back-up.
Well, that's what they have. You think you can get one great goaltender and then a quality backup for less money? Maybe for a year or two if you're lucky enough to get one early in his career before he's cashed in, but then that great goalie's gonna get a raise. Which I suppose is the point at which some cap-obsessed people on this board will suggest that there's a need to trade him.
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Look at the Devils (or the Avs or the Stars, for example). Anything else is just an asset on the bench for a 'just in case' that might not happen in exchange for a potentially distracting controversy and a hole in your forward ranks or on your blue line.
There's no controversy ... Giguere's the starter, and he's played well this year (better than most experts on this board predicted he would). It's not like Theodore-Huet, where the highly paid starter is having problems producing on the ice whilst the backup looks good. Just like there's been no indication of any fallout from his contract negotiations a few years ago. And no indication that the Ducks are in any kind of cap trouble anymore. I think you and others are trying to rationalize a reason for why Anaheim would want to dump Giguere.
As for the hole in the forward ranks, it's generally a heck of a lot easier to find a free agent scoring line forward than it is to find a free agent #1 goalie. Impact forwards and defensemen hit the market far more often than impact goaltenders (as there's simply more of them in the league). And as it stands, Anaheim shouldn't have any problems finding cap space to make an offer to anyone this summer even if they keep Giguere.
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It's a luxury. Are the Mighty Ducks the sort of team that can sit back and enjoy their luxuries?
No they're not, but they're also not a team that can afford to toss away a good goaltender just because he's making a few hundred thousand more than he should, and take a chance on a guy who's started all of 20-some games. Because if Bryzgalov fails, it'll take a heck of a lot more than Giguere's $3.9 mil to fix it.
And if they dump Bryzgalov, are they going to find that, "quality backup," for significantly less money? Probably not. If they really wanted to cheap out, they could have just kept Steve Shields after his tryout in camp.
I ask you again, if it's so darn easy, why don't all the teams that want a goalie just use $4 mil to go get that goalie they need? Perhaps because it's not the kind of thing that's so easy to solve on the open market? Burke ought to know better than anyone what a PITA it can be to get a legit #1 goaltender that you can feel comfortable about going into the playoffs with.
