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Your nightmare

View Poll Results: YOUR NIGHTMARE
RC starts doing media scrums in French 3 1.81%
PG given 3 year extension 68 40.96%
Markov blows knee after start of 2012 season 36 21.69%
Gomez starts 2012 season with the Habs 22 13.25%
At Draft, Habs to pick, Bettman announces a trade 37 22.29%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-08-2012, 07:08 PM
  #76
Bullsmith
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Why just pick one? PG gets an extension, keeps Gomez and trades away the first round pick++++ to get Lecavalier, Markov blows his knee out at the WC this year and spends all next season just "a few days" away from returning. RC does his news conferences in French, but as Michel Bergeron's assistant.

Good times.

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Old
03-08-2012, 07:18 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Well done. Calling for Goat's head is absurd. He's had barely 2 years, and inherited a mess.

Not covering for Markov is his only bad mistake so far. Cammy trade? Wow. Love that 35th pick in 2013, Holland so far, and 3 mill in cap space.

Ridiculous calling for his head. Give him one more draft, one summer to torch Gomez, one more season, one more trade deadline. Then we can judge. If he fails, fire his ass next summer, fine.

Meanwhile, put the word out quietly to selected persons that Goats has one year, and Habs will be possibly be interviewing in spring 2013. That's called stability.

Clueless people here, honestly. All GM's need min 3 years to show their mark. Preferably 4-5.
This would be perfectly fair if M. Gauthier had come in as a new GM from the outside and was in the process of putting his own team in place, both on the ice and in management. That is simply not the case. Both Boivin and Gauthier were clear when he was hired- the organization was headed in the right direction and the man to keep it that was was already on staff. Gauthier not only was part of Gainey's moves, he endorsed them when he played status quo with the team as a GM. He's made two kinds of moves since he too over- panic ones like Borque and firing Pearne, and patches like Campoli/Kaberle (terrible) and Cole (superb in the short term, while we happen to be losing with the worst of them.)

Stop pretending Gauthier came in as an outsider and has only had a couple of years to change direction. He only changed direction a couple of months ago. He's also not a first time GM. He's a proven, established loser. The fact that he managed to expose his failings so quickly after taking over the top job isn't a defense, it's evidence of his incompetence. If you need more, imaging 4 more years of Rene Bourque.

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03-08-2012, 07:25 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
If that's the case, the tanking talk will start much earlier. Instead of Yakupov/Grigorenko, our fans will talk about Barkov/MacKinnon.
What if Timmons considers a USHS defenceman the best available player?

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03-08-2012, 07:30 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
This would be perfectly fair if M. Gauthier had come in as a new GM from the outside and was in the process of putting his own team in place, both on the ice and in management. That is simply not the case. Both Boivin and Gauthier were clear when he was hired- the organization was headed in the right direction and the man to keep it that was was already on staff. Gauthier not only was part of Gainey's moves, he endorsed them when he played status quo with the team as a GM. He's made two kinds of moves since he too over- panic ones like Borque and firing Pearne, and patches like Campoli/Kaberle (terrible) and Cole (superb in the short term, while we happen to be losing with the worst of them.)

Stop pretending Gauthier came in as an outsider and has only had a couple of years to change direction. He only changed direction a couple of months ago. He's also not a first time GM. He's a proven, established loser. The fact that he managed to expose his failings so quickly after taking over the top job isn't a defense, it's evidence of his incompetence. If you need more, imaging 4 more years of Rene Bourque.
Also, this team is on pace for its worst season in 65 years. That's someones fault, and we've already fired a coach.

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Old
03-08-2012, 11:11 PM
  #80
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Ok then, let's be fair.

Poile - as I initially pointed out, depends on this year's playoff success on everything. Suter might leave if they bomb out of the playoffs, and he'll have traded two 2nds and a 1st for what'll amount to nothing (if they bomb out in the first round) and he'll have nothing to show for it at all since Gill is super old even if he re-signs and AKost... well we'll see what happens with him.

That aside, if it works out and they get to the WCF, more power to him. I don't think they have the experience or the firepower but anything can happen. His deals for Rinne, Legwand and Erat disgust me however. Rinne is an unproven goaltender in the playoffs and he flat out sucked against Detroit in that one series - he's not worth 7/49 no matter how you cut it.

You say to be fair, but then say that it all depends on this one year to decide whether or not he's a good GM?

Rinne is the best goalie in the NHL, maybe the length of his contract is one or two years too long, I have no issues with the dollars. Erat and Legwand you can argue are a little overpaid for their production, but it's pretty standard for guys like them in the NHL. In any event, if that's all you really have to criticize him on, then you're really have nothing...

Poile has done a very good job in Nashville considering he's always been limited to close to the cap floor.


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Old
03-08-2012, 11:29 PM
  #81
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^ cap floor you mean?

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Old
03-08-2012, 11:30 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
^ cap floor you mean?
Right, fixed it, thx.

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Old
03-09-2012, 12:02 AM
  #83
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LG, I'll respond to your post tomorrow (or Sunday, depending on my... activities tomorrow night).

That said, overall, I think the biggest mistake Gauthier made so far - and it IS a big mistake - was not covering properly for Markov's extended absence. With Markov in fold we wouldn't have had a great d-corps but it would've been over-crowded and (imo) average.

Markov - Spacek
Subban - Gill
Gorges - Weber
ex. Emelin, Diaz

That was the projected line-up. Not great but over-crowded, Emelin and Diaz are both seasoned pros from other leagues, they're not rookie-rookies.

So the lack of Markov messed up Jacques Martin's plans, caused the signing of Campoli who has been at the very best TERRIBLE, the rather side-ways trade for Kaberle (which could be salvaged, more on that after) and basically where we're at now.

I like the Cammy trade. I'm sick of the smurf-tastic reputation the Habs had and it was pretty obvious he's an ornery guy who didn't fit in that well. I don't think we got too little value for him because size+speed are highly valued in the league, maybe too much so, but look at Gaustad. Cammy also had a NTC and 14m/2years left in cash, which leaves a lot of potential buyers out. A team like Nashville would've loved to have Cammy in theory but I doubt they'd be able to justify his meager 9 goals. So that's definitely not as bad as the Markov situation.

Regarding the Kaberle acquisition: I think he's either easily traded as he's better than Zidlicky and that doofus got moved, or he'll pick up his game to be at least useful. Leafs fans were repeating that Kaberle lost a step or two from his peak - a time where he was supposedly worth more than Markov - but if Kabs can still generate a ~40-50pt season from the backend he does have a place in the NHL and his contract is fair-value. I'd rather NOT have him but he does probably look much worse next to "Swiss-league" Campoli and a generally losing team.

Everything aside, morale and momentum have a ton to do with it. The Rangers flew off without their big guns (Gabs, Richards) carrying them. I think a positive, professional coach would do wonders for the team because everything aside we have some really solid pieces.

This isn't a team that's supposed to cling on for 8th like the Begin years. I just like what I see, and I think with a motivated team and a fresh start with a new coach they'll surprise a lot of people.

I mean, on paper, we're much better than friggin Ottawa and all they changed was their coach. And given that Goat's had 2.5years at the helm, and aside from the Markov fiasco which killed off this season, he's made good signings (Cole, Halpern basically) and good-looking draft picks. And if it were me, or Brian Burke or any star GM, they would've re-signed Markov too.

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03-09-2012, 12:08 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You say to be fair, but then say that it all depends on this one year to decide whether or not he's a good GM?

Rinne is the best goalie in the NHL, maybe the length of his contract is one or two years too long, I have no issues with the dollars. Erat and Legwand you can argue are a little overpaid for their production, but it's pretty standard for guys like them in the NHL. In any event, if that's all you really have to criticize him on, then you're really have nothing...

Poile has done a very good job in Nashville considering he's always been limited to close to the cap floor.
You're absolutely right and Poile gets all the credit he wants. All I'm saying is that the GMs I listed either made consistently terrible moves, or crazy risky moves and have never made it past the 2nd round.

Trading all those assets for 37 year old Gill, AKost and Paul Gaustad is really, really risky. All of that gets super-magnified if he lets Suter go without any assets to show for it (though, obviously, it's understandable why he wouldn't trade Suter mid-season) and what then for Weber? His offense is still pop-gun and his centre depth is laughable.

Poile essentially hedged his bets into this season. If I were him, I'd do the same, but from the outside looking in you have to say that it's mighty risky.

The biggest risk Gauthier took was re-signing his injured #1 dman on doctor's orders. In hindsight it looks stupid as hell but if we dig back, how many people complained when we let Hamrlik go after he wanted 2 years? or Wiz after he got his stupid contract?

Goat hasn't really edged on the wrong side of the present v. future sacrifice. Yeah trading the 2nd round pick every year is mighty annoying but we got to the ECF that one year and Wiz did a great job the other year. Fine trades. Goat hasn't ****ed up THAT MUCH and he hasn't been on the job long enough to say that he lacks vision. That's why I don't want him fired, yet.

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03-09-2012, 12:19 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're absolutely right and Poile gets all the credit he wants. All I'm saying is that the GMs I listed either made consistently terrible moves, or crazy risky moves and have never made it past the 2nd round.

Trading all those assets for 37 year old Gill, AKost and Paul Gaustad is really, really risky. All of that gets super-magnified if he lets Suter go without any assets to show for it (though, obviously, it's understandable why he wouldn't trade Suter mid-season) and what then for Weber? His offense is still pop-gun and his centre depth is laughable.

Poile essentially hedged his bets into this season. If I were him, I'd do the same, but from the outside looking in you have to say that it's mighty risky.

The biggest risk Gauthier took was re-signing his injured #1 dman on doctor's orders. In hindsight it looks stupid as hell but if we dig back, how many people complained when we let Hamrlik go after he wanted 2 years? or Wiz after he got his stupid contract?

Goat hasn't really edged on the wrong side of the present v. future sacrifice. Yeah trading the 2nd round pick every year is mighty annoying but we got to the ECF that one year and Wiz did a great job the other year. Fine trades. Goat hasn't ****ed up THAT MUCH and he hasn't been on the job long enough to say that he lacks vision. That's why I don't want him fired, yet.
I don't want him fired yet, either. But the first week in the off-season - he's out of here.

This whole thing is a mess and Gauthier seems quite content to let the good ship The Habs go wherever it wants to go.

Gauthier's problem is he just doesn't get the whole people thing and how the modern hockey world works.

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Old
03-09-2012, 12:25 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
The worst thing is that it's pretty obvious that Gauthier has very little chance of returning. Such a waste of time indeed.

I can only hope we'll have an another actually competent GM candidate.
I don't believe he has such little chance. Obviously he was allowed to continue making trades for the future and was continuing to build the team. He has traded for contracts that will last for several more years so IMO if they were truly going to replace him they would have done it by now or simply said "no more moves for you."

I believe Molson is probably quite level headed compared to most people here and sees that Gauthier is working with both hands tied behind his back. Making small moves but smart ones that are all moving towards a similar goal. That goal is obviously a bigger, stronger and much more aggressive team. We will truly know what the plan is when he picks a head coach.

Personally I was hoping Ruff would become available but sadly the Sabres are turning it all around. That's my 2 cents anyways.

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03-09-2012, 12:30 AM
  #87
WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Gauthier's problem is he just doesn't get the whole people thing and how the modern hockey world works.
This is the kind of baseless speculation that drives me up the wall.

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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
We will truly know what the plan is when he picks a head coach.

Personally I was hoping Ruff would become available but sadly the Sabres are turning it all around. That's my 2 cents anyways.
Well said, and I agree.

His vision will only be clear when the new coach is picked and how Gomez is dealt with. Unfortunately, though I understand the apprehension, if he errs at all with either of those moves he has no lifelines or excuses left. Can you imagine if he chooses a **** coach like Hartley, and the team still sucks, and doesn't get rid of Gomez?

Doubt it'll happen but those are massive moves and if it's Goat making them he won't have any slack at all.

I'd be in the front row for the hanging.

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03-09-2012, 12:39 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
This is the kind of baseless speculation that drives me up the wall.



Well said, and I agree.

His vision will only be clear when the new coach is picked and how Gomez is dealt with. Unfortunately, though I understand the apprehension, if he errs at all with either of those moves he has no lifelines or excuses left. Can you imagine if he chooses a **** coach like Hartley, and the team still sucks, and doesn't get rid of Gomez?

Doubt it'll happen but those are massive moves and if it's Goat making them he won't have any slack at all.

I'd be in the front row for the hanging.
Yes coach will be the make or break move for him and it seems like he knows it seeing as how he hasn't selected anyone. I don't know who will be available in theoffseason but it will not be a gimmick coach or a rookie, too much is depending on him coming in and taking control. I really feel that all the team needs is a good offensive minded coach, all the talent we need is right here.

If Gauthier does have to go I just hope we don't give in to the stupidity and pick someone like McGuire or some ex hab like Roy.

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Old
03-09-2012, 12:40 AM
  #89
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're absolutely right and Poile gets all the credit he wants. All I'm saying is that the GMs I listed either made consistently terrible moves, or crazy risky moves and have never made it past the 2nd round.

Trading all those assets for 37 year old Gill, AKost and Paul Gaustad is really, really risky. All of that gets super-magnified if he lets Suter go without any assets to show for it (though, obviously, it's understandable why he wouldn't trade Suter mid-season) and what then for Weber? His offense is still pop-gun and his centre depth is laughable.

Poile essentially hedged his bets into this season. If I were him, I'd do the same, but from the outside looking in you have to say that it's mighty risky.

The biggest risk Gauthier took was re-signing his injured #1 dman on doctor's orders. In hindsight it looks stupid as hell but if we dig back, how many people complained when we let Hamrlik go after he wanted 2 years? or Wiz after he got his stupid contract?

Goat hasn't really edged on the wrong side of the present v. future sacrifice. Yeah trading the 2nd round pick every year is mighty annoying but we got to the ECF that one year and Wiz did a great job the other year. Fine trades. Goat hasn't ****ed up THAT MUCH and he hasn't been on the job long enough to say that he lacks vision. That's why I don't want him fired, yet.
I understand what you're saying, but the difference between Poile and Goats, is that we know Gauthier's gamble failed.
Poile made some good moves imo. Adding scoring depth, a strong and big checking center great at faceoffs, and a PK specialist who's a proven PO performer, without damaging his current roster, is pretty good. Even if they end up losing in the first round because, as it stands today, they'd face Detroit, it'd still be good moves.
Sure, he overpaid for Gill, but if you combine both, which means AK+Gill for two 2nds (2012-2013)+Geoffrion+Slaney, it's a pretty fair deal.
1st for Gaustad+3rd is slightly much though, but I wouldn't be surprised if he re-signs there. Seems like a perfect guy for Nashville's style.

So really, even if it doesn't work. They are still good moves to make at the deadline.
And essentially, if they don't pan out, then it's okay. They will remain competitive next year (unless they lose key players).
The gamble Goats took meant that if Markov does get injured again, we'd be screwed.

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Old
03-09-2012, 12:46 AM
  #90
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As I've said many, many times. I care about a cup. I don't care how we do it. Yes, I support rebuilding.
You're not seriously back-pedalling and trying to have us believe that now are you? Not only have you not said this many times, but you have not said it once. You've always maintained the only way to build a team is by tanking for a few years and pile up on "superstars" through the draft. UFA's have been exactly what you've been against. Don't change your tune now LG.

There are three ways to build a team; through the draft, through free-agency or via trade. That's it. When was the last time Detroit tanked? San Jose? On the other hand The Islanders and Oilers have tanked several times and have received great young prospects out of it and are still unsuccessful. And don't start telling me Detroit did tank 20 years ago as that's irrelevant as they have changed that team over several times over the last 20 years and continue to be successful without tanking for a draft pick.

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03-09-2012, 01:05 AM
  #91
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Kriss E, Gauthier's gamble failed and (to simplify the heck out of it) we lost a season after two reasonably good seasons of progression. We'll see the extent of Poile's "problems" after the playoffs. I don't wish them well because I don't like Nashville but that's a separate issue haha

We should pick this up after the playoffs for sure because I think we both understand the other's argument and now it's just up to fate/time.

Other than Poile though, the other GMs listed (Poile was the riskiest pick after all) all made bets and lost or have been continously losing. Look at Mike Richards now, 13 goals over a 14 game span early on and 0 in his last 20 and 1 in his last 31 games... for another decade! Fans and fat radio hosts here would be choking on their vitriol trying to execute the GM who did such moves in Montreal.

The biggest "fail" Gauthier had was to re-sign Markov and that's a move that I would BET every. single. GM would have made. Which is why I don't think he should be fired.

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03-09-2012, 09:12 AM
  #92
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LG, I'll respond to your post tomorrow (or Sunday, depending on my... activities tomorrow night).

That said, overall, I think the biggest mistake Gauthier made so far - and it IS a big mistake - was not covering properly for Markov's extended absence. With Markov in fold we wouldn't have had a great d-corps but it would've been over-crowded and (imo) average.

Markov - Spacek
Subban - Gill
Gorges - Weber
ex. Emelin, Diaz

That was the projected line-up. Not great but over-crowded, Emelin and Diaz are both seasoned pros from other leagues, they're not rookie-rookies.

So the lack of Markov messed up Jacques Martin's plans, caused the signing of Campoli who has been at the very best TERRIBLE, the rather side-ways trade for Kaberle (which could be salvaged, more on that after) and basically where we're at now.

I like the Cammy trade. I'm sick of the smurf-tastic reputation the Habs had and it was pretty obvious he's an ornery guy who didn't fit in that well. I don't think we got too little value for him because size+speed are highly valued in the league, maybe too much so, but look at Gaustad. Cammy also had a NTC and 14m/2years left in cash, which leaves a lot of potential buyers out. A team like Nashville would've loved to have Cammy in theory but I doubt they'd be able to justify his meager 9 goals. So that's definitely not as bad as the Markov situation.

Regarding the Kaberle acquisition: I think he's either easily traded as he's better than Zidlicky and that doofus got moved, or he'll pick up his game to be at least useful. Leafs fans were repeating that Kaberle lost a step or two from his peak - a time where he was supposedly worth more than Markov - but if Kabs can still generate a ~40-50pt season from the backend he does have a place in the NHL and his contract is fair-value. I'd rather NOT have him but he does probably look much worse next to "Swiss-league" Campoli and a generally losing team.

Everything aside, morale and momentum have a ton to do with it. The Rangers flew off without their big guns (Gabs, Richards) carrying them. I think a positive, professional coach would do wonders for the team because everything aside we have some really solid pieces.

This isn't a team that's supposed to cling on for 8th like the Begin years. I just like what I see, and I think with a motivated team and a fresh start with a new coach they'll surprise a lot of people.

I mean, on paper, we're much better than friggin Ottawa and all they changed was their coach. And given that Goat's had 2.5years at the helm, and aside from the Markov fiasco which killed off this season, he's made good signings (Cole, Halpern basically) and good-looking draft picks. And if it were me, or Brian Burke or any star GM, they would've re-signed Markov too.
Again... you're looking at it from a micro level. His biggest mistake was not Markov or his failure to get a backup for him. His failure was what he DIDN'T do. He didn't exhibit much in the way of proactive thinking to make us competitive for the future. His whole attitude was to get 8th place.

You think dealing Cammy was a good move? Okay, that's fine. I have no problem with trading him. But to deal him for what we got made no sense unless you're trying to sneak into 8th place. That's what that move was about. That's what most of his moves were about. He's not a visionary and that's why I think he needs to be replaced.

Again, I don't care if he's better than Steve Tambellini or whoever... you can have that conversation with somebody else. It's meaningless to me. As I said, many of those guys have their hands tied and could only dream of having PG's situation. But compare PG to the best GMs and he falls flat on his face.

I don't know how old you are. I suspect you've grown up in an era where we've had terrible management and that's all you know. Someday we'll land a good GM and you'll see what you've been missing. PG is not a good GM dude.
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
You're not seriously back-pedalling and trying to have us believe that now are you? Not only have you not said this many times, but you have not said it once. You've always maintained the only way to build a team is by tanking for a few years and pile up on "superstars" through the draft. UFA's have been exactly what you've been against. Don't change your tune now LG.

There are three ways to build a team; through the draft, through free-agency or via trade. That's it. When was the last time Detroit tanked? San Jose? On the other hand The Islanders and Oilers have tanked several times and have received great young prospects out of it and are still unsuccessful. And don't start telling me Detroit did tank 20 years ago as that's irrelevant as they have changed that team over several times over the last 20 years and continue to be successful without tanking for a draft pick.
1. I've been on this forum for years. Go find me a single post where I said the ONLY way to do this is rebuilding. I'd be surprised if you can. That's not my position and it never has been. If that's what you believe then you haven't been reading my posts clearly enough. What you will find if you search what I've said is that I've always maintained that there's more than one way to win. But the best way that I can see is rebuilding because it's yielded the most success and we suck at getting quality UFAs.

2. There is no backpeddling here. I want a cup, that's it. I don't care how we get it. If that means getting a bunch of UFAs and winning... great. It's not how I'd try to do it but if it works I couldn't care less. If I thought we could get superstars with the 400th pick the way Detroit has... then I'd be all for it. We (and no other team in the league) haven't demonstrated that capability. We've also shown no ability to sign superstar UFAs on the rare occassions where they have become UFAs. We sign the leftovers from other clubs and I don't think we'll win that way. I also don't think we'll win cups if we continue to finish 8th and drafting 15th. If we managed to do it that way though... great.

3. As I've said on here many times, I'd support signing say... Suter to a UFA contract. That makes sense to me. Problem is that it's not likely to happen. No way that guy signs here.

4. What I've said is this: Most clubs that have won cups have done so via rebuilding. Not ALL have done it this way but most have. It is a repeatable strategy. That's because it's awfully hard to win cups without a superstar. Superstars typically don't become UFAs in their prime and teams typically won't trade them so if you can't get them that way (and we've shown no ability to get them) then the alternative is to trade for picks and prospects. At least then you have a shot at getting a superstar. That's what I've argued for years.

Hope that clears things up for you.


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03-09-2012, 09:50 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Again... you're looking at it from a micro level. His biggest mistake was not Markov or his failure to get a backup for him. His failure was what he DIDN'T do. He didn't exhibit much in the way of proactive thinking to make us competitive for the future. His whole attitude was to get 8th place.

You think dealing Cammy was a good move? Okay, that's fine. I have no problem with trading him. But to deal him for what we got made no sense unless you're trying to sneak into 8th place. That's what that move was about. That's what most of his moves were about. He's not a visionary and that's why I think he needs to be replaced.

Again, I don't care if he's better than Steve Tambellini or whoever... you can have that conversation with somebody else. It's meaningless to me. As I said, many of those guys have their hands tied and could only dream of having PG's situation. But compare PG to the best GMs and he falls flat on his face.

I don't know how old you are. I suspect you've grown up in an era where we've had terrible management and that's all you know. Someday we'll land a good GM and you'll see what you've been missing. PG is not a good GM dude.

1. I've been on this forum for years. Go find me a single post where I said the ONLY way to do this is rebuilding. I'd be surprised if you can. That's not my position and it never has been. If that's what you believe then you haven't been reading my posts clearly enough. What you will find if you search what I've said is that I've always maintained that there's more than one way to win. But the best way that I can see is rebuilding because it's yielded the most success and we suck at getting quality UFAs.

2. There is no backpeddling here. I want a cup, that's it. I don't care how we get it. If that means getting a bunch of UFAs and winning... great. It's not how I'd try to do it but if it works I couldn't care less. If I thought we could get superstars with the 400th pick the way Detroit has... then I'd be all for it. We (and no other team in the league) haven't demonstrated that capability. We've also shown no ability to sign superstar UFAs on the rare occassions where they have become UFAs. We sign the leftovers from other clubs and I don't think we'll win that way. I also don't think we'll win cups if we continue to finish 8th and drafting 15th. If we managed to do it that way though... great.

3. As I've said on here many times, I'd support signing say... Suter to a UFA contract. That makes sense to me. Problem is that it's not likely to happen. No way that guy signs here.

4. What I've said is this: Most clubs that have won cups have done so via rebuilding. Not ALL have done it this way but most have. It is a repeatable strategy. That's because it's awfully hard to win cups without a superstar. Superstars typically don't become UFAs in their prime and teams typically won't trade them so if you can't get them that way (and we've shown no ability to get them) then the alternative is to trade for picks and prospects. At least then you have a shot at getting a superstar. That's what I've argued for years.

Hope that clears things up for you.
I want a team fighting for home ice and having a shot at the Cup year after year, like alot of teams do. Like you , Im tired of the fighting for 8th place the last couple of decades. Im all for the longer term view and I didnt like the Kaberle trade because it was, I think, looking to get us into the play-offs now at the expense of the future. Thing is, is it PG or Molson thats mainly to blame? If the owner says I want the play-offs this year then the GM tries to make it happen, the owner is your boss. Its all well and good to want a GM to be completely selfless and only think about the team, but the GM is a person and doesnt want to lose his job, thats reality. The owner has to be sure the GM either feels secure or is watching him to be sure no try to keep his job moves are made.

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03-09-2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
I want a team fighting for home ice and having a shot at the Cup year after year, like alot of teams do. Like you , Im tired of the fighting for 8th place the last couple of decades. Im all for the longer term view and I didnt like the Kaberle trade because it was, I think, looking to get us into the play-offs now at the expense of the future. Thing is, is it PG or Molson thats mainly to blame? If the owner says I want the play-offs this year then the GM tries to make it happen, the owner is your boss. Its all well and good to want a GM to be completely selfless and only think about the team, but the GM is a person and doesnt want to lose his job, thats reality. The owner has to be sure the GM either feels secure or is watching him to be sure no try to keep his job moves are made.
To be honest... I don't know.

Based on what I've seen it's PG's fault because he's just continuing what we've done for years... try to make the playoffs at the expense of long term success. Right now I'm putting the blame on him.

I don't know what kind of an owner Molson is. I hope he's a guy who wants to win. Moreover, I hope he's a guy who isn't going to meddle with things. Best case scenario he hires a strong GM, tells him he wants a cup and says "go to it."

The truth is though, I have no idea what to expect from this guy. You're right, the GM can only follow orders. Feaster for example HAS to try to make the playoffs. His owners are telling him this. Based on what I've seen in the media, he'd like to rebuild that club. His hands are tied.

If Molson brings back PG, then we have our answer. Ownership is to blame.

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03-09-2012, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
To be honest... I don't know.

Based on what I've seen it's PG's fault because he's just continuing what we've done for years... try to make the playoffs at the expense of long term success. Right now I'm putting the blame on him.

I don't know what kind of an owner Molson is. I hope he's a guy who wants to win. Moreover, I hope he's a guy who isn't going to meddle with things. Best case scenario he hires a strong GM, tells him he wants a cup and says "go to it."

The truth is though, I have no idea what to expect from this guy. You're right, the GM can only follow orders. Feaster for example HAS to try to make the playoffs. His owners are telling him this. Based on what I've seen in the media, he'd like to rebuild that club. His hands are tied.

If Molson brings back PG, then we have our answer. Ownership is to blame.
Yeah, I dont know what kind of owner Molson is either, but we will find out. To me the answers will come from what happens with Gomez and what a new GM , I assume, tell us about the game plan. As things stand now from a Cap point of view, the best thing Molson could do is send Gomez to the minors and the 2nd best thing is a buyout. While I understand an owner wants to make money, a team isnt a collectible, if Molson does neither then he clearly only cares about the immediate bottom line. Buy-out is a half measure and to me will still show hes more about the bucks . In terms of the GM , if the GM talks about a 3-5 year plan then Molson is thinking about the team long term and giving the GM room. While I think with a couple of good players we can be contesting for the play-offs in 2012-13, if the GMs focus is all about the short term , then thats Molson looking like he just wants to score play-off money and being content with 7th-8th finishes. Time will tell on Molson maybe hell be graet. Do miss Gillett though, that guy took losses ( unlike when the Brewey owned the team ) in the interests of the team and when he hired Gainey he allowed Gainey to have a 5 year plan, then butted out. Terrific owner.

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03-09-2012, 01:14 PM
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Worst nightmares ?

1- Gomez back

2- Gauthier and Gainey still there

3- Cunney behind the bench as head coach.

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03-09-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
The biggest "fail" Gauthier had was to re-sign Markov and that's a move that I would BET every. single. GM would have made. Which is why I don't think he should be fired.
Oh, I would have re-signed Markov at the same exact deal every single time as well. I don't even consider that as a failure. You don't let guys like Markov go.
The problem was not bringing depth in case of injuries, which then forced him to make another mistake by going after Kaberle.

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03-09-2012, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I don't believe he has such little chance. Obviously he was allowed to continue making trades for the future and was continuing to build the team. He has traded for contracts that will last for several more years so IMO if they were truly going to replace him they would have done it by now or simply said "no more moves for you."

I believe Molson is probably quite level headed compared to most people here and sees that Gauthier is working with both hands tied behind his back. Making small moves but smart ones that are all moving towards a similar goal. That goal is obviously a bigger, stronger and much more aggressive team. We will truly know what the plan is when he picks a head coach.

Personally I was hoping Ruff would become available but sadly the Sabres are turning it all around. That's my 2 cents anyways.
This guy has resources that other clubs could only dream of. Yes, it's harder to attract UFAs but so what? Lots of teams have that issue.

We have scouting and cash that other clubs would kill for. His "small moves" have actually hurt the long term prospects of this club and that alone is reason enough to fire him. His constant pursuit of 8th place at the expense of long term success should have had him out the door already.

As for "picking a coach"... why didn't he do this right the first time?

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