Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
We are stacked with depth, not an issue for us. We have Tarasenko and Schwartz who can have a high end future impact for us. Our team needs are a first pairing D-Man to complement Petro. Not a second pairing guy who wont suck when he plays with Petro but a stone cold first pairing guy. Not something Edmonton really has. We also need another top end forward or two most likely a center so we can roll Backes, Player, Berglund going forward. Arnott is doing a really good job but in the future looking 2-3 years ahead we don't really have someone in the system to round out the top 3 scoring lines.
We don't have any holes in our team right now, we are just looking to improve the top of our lineup so trying to trade us depth for our top end talent is just not realistic.
It doesn't. But I think Smid would fit well next to Pietrangelo, and the + would have to be pretty decent. The package would probably be XXXXX + Smid for Shattenkirk. I was thinking more along the lines of, "If the Blues are going to open a hole in the defense, the better darn be filling a different hole back there."
Maybe something like Eberle +Smid for Shattenkirk + Rattie (maybe Schwartz?? I'm really bad at proposals) or something along those lines.
Although, as a team with an internal budget, a player like Schwartz or Rattie is pretty darn valuable compared to someone like Eberle who is closer to UFA. (Please note, I'm not trying to say I think Rattie or Schwartz will be as good as Eberle, I don't think they will. Just that those extra years of being cost controlled is a BIG factor for a team like St. Louis.)
If Shattenkirk is leaving, then I'd want Smid + coming back.
Or the Blues add to get a game-changing forward.
But if the Blues are getting back quantity for quality, Smid has got to be part of the package.
Smid being included makes it not a quantity for quality deal. The guy has been amazing all year. He's the type of guy you only package for a legitimate number one d-man. Not trade for a side step.
Because I don't work tomorrow and there was a hockey game tonight.
I may be bad at value of players, but I think the Blues get robbed in a Smid for Shattenkirk swap due to the different value placed on players of their kind around the league.
There aren't many Smid's or many Shattenkirk's. I don't think that would factor into it at all. The fact is, that neither team would do a straight across deal with these two guys, there wouldn't be much point. Smid is what the Oilers need and have little of. Shattenkirk is what the Blues have and have little of.
Probably the best, most detailed description of Shattenkirk can be read here. It's a highly sophisticated post (made by an Edmonton resident, I believe) detailing the strengths and weaknesses of Shattenkirk and I think most Blues fans agree this is what we've seen.
That description tells you Shattenkirk is an incredibly important piece for the Blues going forward. Subtract him and you've created a significant hole, and how are you filling it? If the answer is you're filling another hole, what hole is that exactly?
The OP, by the way, is a dime and three nickels for a quarter. Typically those are never well received. MPS has been disappointing and you guys have no trouble throwing him into packages. He's fast but has no finish. The rest is just filler. Filler can be serviceable, but consider that the Blues have no need of that filler, and you see why the deal, once again, has not been given even cursory thought from a Blues perspective. It's just "hey I want this guy, so how can I add expendable pieces together I don't mind losing?" You aren't taking into account the replacement player value. If the Blues take wingers (Blues are overloaded on the wings as is) and some meh D and a some meh pick to give up an emerging gem, who exactly has to be cut from the roster in order for those guys to play? Can you really be insulted if Blues fans crap all over the fact you haven't thought for one second about the deal from our perspective? That's the insulting part, not the particulars of the terrible OP which is almost always bad if it's trying to add nickels to get to a quarter.
Usually when you have a really good team, and a really bad team, it makes no sense for the really good team to give up quantity for quality because some/all of the players coming from the really bad team won't have a spot on the really good team's roster.
Getting quantity only works if you have a lot of holes on your roster. I don't see a lot of holes on STL's roster.
This deal makes zero sense. It's just: I want this player, let me give up a bunch of stuff that I don't mind losing.
MPS seems liek he may be one of those forwards who only has potential that never developes. I defniatley do not see him flourishing under Hitchcock. HIs value alone is probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder. So substitute that in there and ask your self if you would do it form a blues perspective.
Do you genuinly believe that a guy who is 6'3/4 can skate like the wind, has all the ability in the world at 20 is worth a 2nd/3rd round pick? You know he has been an allstar at th WC, he had a very good rookie season last year, has been tracking very well on a defensive AHL team, and was the 2nd highest rated european going into his draft? This is just assinine.
The guy I want from Edmonton is Anton Lander, but unless Edmonton's first rounder and Ladislav Smid come with him, the Oilers aren't getting Shattenkirk.
Smid is a better player than Shattenkirk, and i really like Shattenkirk. Then we are going to add in a draft pick that could net you guys a franchise player, and a top prospect. This can't be real.
Not even close from a Blues point of view. Most people think Tarasenko will be pretty close to Hall.
I would bet my last dollar that Hall is the vastly superior talent over the course of their careers. That deal won't get me even considering moving Hall.
That's not true. If it was why didn't the Oilers or Avalanche take Larsson in the draft last year. How come the Islanders didn't take Hedman over Tavares. Players are valued on the merits of their talents. Hall is a franchise player who drives the play towards the other teams goal at an outstanding rate. He will be one of the top players in the NHL for a very very long time. I would call their values equal, and even then i wouldn't move Hall for Petro as robbing Peter to pay Paul makes little sense.
I think those who consider this package as "garbage" seem to throw the towel really, really fast on MPS... Wasnt the guy considered a great prospect 2 years ago? I know we are on HFBoards but a 21 year old forward who hasn't scored 120 points per season in the NHL yet isn't a bust...
That's not true. If it was why didn't the Oilers or Avalanche take Larsson in the draft last year. How come the Islanders didn't take Hedman over Tavares. Players are valued on the merits of their talents. Hall is a franchise player who drives the play towards the other teams goal at an outstanding rate. He will be one of the top players in the NHL for a very very long time. I would call their values equal, and even then i wouldn't move Hall for Petro as robbing Peter to pay Paul makes little sense.
Ok, tell me how the Oilers do with stud forwards and no defense. We are doing pretty good with no franchise forwards.
Do you genuinly believe that a guy who is 6'3/4 can skate like the wind, has all the ability in the world at 20 is worth a 2nd/3rd round pick? You know he has been an allstar at th WC, he had a very good rookie season last year, has been tracking very well on a defensive AHL team, and was the 2nd highest rated european going into his draft? This is just assinine.
So everything that you are rating him so high happened before the NHL? Paajarvi doesn't help us, and no way in hell do we move Shattenkirk with him as the main piece in a package.
Smid is a better player than Shattenkirk, and i really like Shattenkirk. Then we are going to add in a draft pick that could net you guys a franchise player, and a top prospect. This can't be real.
Oh, it's real... it's damn real...
Gotta love Edmonton homers who think that every asset the Oilers have is forged from 100% solid gold.
Smid is a better player than Shattenkirk, and i really like Shattenkirk. Then we are going to add in a draft pick that could net you guys a franchise player, and a top prospect. This can't be real.
Did you read what he posted? He said the Oilers aren't getting Shattenkirk. He knows it is overpayment and you guys wouldn't pay it, but that is what it would take to get one of the elite teams to trade one of their core pieces.
Doubt St. Louis would move Shats for anything resembling that package, they'd probably be asking for your 1st Rd Pick this year (and adding just a little to sweeten it)
You really think Shatty is worth a top 3 over all pick do you, and then add. Think first.
It seems to me that some people need to be reminded that simply because someone is the better player does not equal them being WORTH more in a trade. Puck-moving D are at a premium in the league currently.
Even if Smid is a better defensemen than Shattenkirk (to which I disagree), Shattenkirk has a higher TRADE value in general. Although a player's trade value is only equal to what other teams will give up for them. Perhaps keeping Smid is more valuable to the Oilers than acquiring Shattenkirk is. However if both we being shopped at the draft there is little doubt in my mind that Shattenkirk would command a great return than Smid.
I didn't realize that Smid was such a non-starter for Oiler fans. Although, with the troubles on the back-end up there, it shouldn't really be so surprising.
