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03-09-2012, 06:41 AM
  #1
BigHabs
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Subban sophomore slump?

I don't understand why the media is saying the guy is going through a sophomore slump for.

Subban is only 8 points off from matching his production and has 10 games to match it in his 77 games last season. Plus he is playing almost every NHL teams top line this year and doing it at an even +/-.

Is it just that his goal total is down and it doesn't go by points. Cause going by points hes not in a slump at all.

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03-09-2012, 06:45 AM
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MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Hotel View Post
I don't understand why the media is saying the guy is going through a sophomore slump for.

Subban is only 8 points off from matching his production and has 10 games to match it in his 77 games last season. Plus he is playing almost every NHL teams top line this year and doing it at an even +/-.

Is it just that his goal total is down and it doesn't go by points. Cause going by points hes not in a slump at all.
Because it really looked like a sophomore slump in the first 40 games (or so)

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03-09-2012, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Because it really looked like a sophomore slump in the first 40 games (or so)
This is pretty much it.

He had a rough first half. He started playing better when RC came in and he's been playing really well for the past 10 games.

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03-09-2012, 07:35 AM
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Canadian_Brewtality
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started off very poorly

but he is playing his best hockey now, by far

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03-09-2012, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Hotel View Post
I don't understand why the media is saying the guy is going through a sophomore slump for.

Subban is only 8 points off from matching his production and has 10 games to match it in his 77 games last season. Plus he is playing almost every NHL teams top line this year and doing it at an even +/-.

Is it just that his goal total is down and it doesn't go by points. Cause going by points hes not in a slump at all.
People exapected the 2nd half Subban from day one and he had a slow start. He has been better the last 6-8 weeks but his season as a whole was a bit of a disapointment.

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03-09-2012, 07:40 AM
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hockeyfan2k11
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IMO, he never had a sophomore slump. He just didn't hit the ridiculously lofty expectations people had for him. He has gotten so much better defensively. Now he's starting to put up points so people think he's playing better. LOL.

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03-09-2012, 07:55 AM
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RaMMuT
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Well he did sophmore slump, and it's normal for most players unless if they are part of the elite (crosby, stamkos, etc)

Ever since RL started yelling at him, it kinda put him back in his place and now we can say that he got out of that slump. I would say he got out of it sometime in February.

Next year I'm sure DD will have his slump, same goes for Emelin and Diaz...

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03-09-2012, 07:56 AM
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Well he had no vision on the powerplay. Making dumb plays like cranking is stick through the roof...

He had a offensive sophomore slump. That's clearly the case. Not a defensive one.

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03-09-2012, 08:03 AM
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Maxpac
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Subban was 1 Wizniewski away from not having this thread at all. His problem was not having 1 single player giving him the puck where it should of been to clearly execute a 1-timer shot. I remember writing a lot of times at the start of the season how pissed off I was that Diaz would literally refuse to pass the puck to him.

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03-09-2012, 08:08 AM
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Blind Gardien
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I don't think he has had a sophomore "slump" per se. I also don't think he played any worse in the first 40 games than recently. He has been fine all season long, at approximately the same overall level of play.

That said, I expected him to get around 50 points this year. To take a step up from last years totals, basically by scoring at the pace he did in the second half of last season over a full season this year. But it's only that lack of production where he has... not "slumped"... but rather failed to progress further.

If anything, his defense is even better than ever. And while he has had a few bunches of dumb penaltyitis, it hasn't been quite as bad as last year, IMHO. He's a bit more disciplined (but still has a ways to go).

The offensive disappointment to me is mostly related to his PP failures. Early on, he got himself relegated behind Weber/Diaz even, partly out of bad luck with his shots just not going in or getting the bounces, but partly also because he was too predictable, taking too much time, not really making plays to get the goalie moving or shooting at the right times into traffic, etc. The rest of the team sucking on the PP never helped either. I don't really think of that as a "slump" per se... just part of a learning experience that I think he has been turning the corner on. He finished last season with everything going in almost magically, and with our PP moving the puck around a lot more to help him achieve that. This season, he learned that it's not always going to be so magical, and he has to be a bit smarter in making things happen too.

It has been a good year, and a progressive one overall. I'll go back to expecting 50+ points for him next season.

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03-09-2012, 08:13 AM
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Mrb1p
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I don't think he has had a sophomore "slump" per se. I also don't think he played any worse in the first 40 games than recently. He has been fine all season long, at approximately the same overall level of play.

That said, I expected him to get around 50 points this year. To take a step up from last years totals, basically by scoring at the pace he did in the second half of last season over a full season this year. But it's only that lack of production where he has... not "slumped"... but rather failed to progress further.

If anything, his defense is even better than ever. And while he has had a few bunches of dumb penaltyitis, it hasn't been quite as bad as last year, IMHO. He's a bit more disciplined (but still has a ways to go).

The offensive disappointment to me is mostly related to his PP failures. Early on, he got himself relegated behind Weber/Diaz even, partly out of bad luck with his shots just not going in or getting the bounces, but partly also because he was too predictable, taking too much time, not really making plays to get the goalie moving or shooting at the right times into traffic, etc. The rest of the team sucking on the PP never helped either. I don't really think of that as a "slump" per se... just part of a learning experience that I think he has been turning the corner on. He finished last season with everything going in almost magically, and with our PP moving the puck around a lot more to help him achieve that. This season, he learned that it's not always going to be so magical, and he has to be a bit smarter in making things happen too.

It has been a good year, and a progressive one overall. I'll go back to expecting 50+ points for him next season.
Expecting 50+ points from Subban is what makes him appear like he's in a slump. Realistic expectations are way more enjoyable.

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03-09-2012, 08:19 AM
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Don't look now, but Subban is up to 27th overall in the league for points by a D-man.

Of course Kaberle is 21st, but he's somehow considered to be garbage, so by extension, everyone below him in the league must also be garbage.

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03-09-2012, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Expecting 50+ points from Subban is what makes him appear like he's in a slump. Realistic expectations are way more enjoyable.
50+ points is very realistic. He clearly has the talent. I have enjoyed his play this season even while he failed to meet my points totals expectations, because I feel like I understand the reasons why he didn't. If he fails to meet them again next season, it will be for understandable reasons again, and hence again not make it "appear like he's in a slump" nor make it any less enjoyable to watch him play and progress.

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03-09-2012, 08:28 AM
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50+ points this year, with the way most of the team has played and the PP is too high. If they get a middle of the road PP next year and a solid game in game out efforet from more than 1 full line, then we'll see Subban's point total shoot up.

But overall I've been pretty happy with his progression and he made a noticable improvement in attitude about 15 games ago. If he keeps up this pace he will be solidified as a 1st pair dman by earning it. The injuries this year on D were in a way good, because it forced Subban to play more in a less insulated manner forcing his progression faster.

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03-09-2012, 08:34 AM
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He was not great in the first half. He made poor defensive decisions and wasn't as good offensively as folks expected him to be.

Part of the problem was expectations. Many people expected him to hit 50 points this year (including me) and obviously that didn't happen. Factor in the defensive gaffes he was making and it wasn't a great start to the year. It's easy to forget that this guy is still very young and is developing his skills. The points are coming now but to me that's not really the important aspect for this year. The points are going to come for this guy no matter what. It's always been a question of his defense and how he could mature from that aspect.

The 2nd half of the year has seen him making fewer of those kinds of errors that we saw at the beginning of the year. He seems to be simplifying his game a little more and not making the gaffes that we saw at the start of the year. 38 points this season (should he reach it) will be fine. I really don't care about that, I want to see him to continue to improve defensively. The offense will come no matter what. He'll be a 50+ point blueliner easily.

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03-09-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Expecting 50+ points from Subban is what makes him appear like he's in a slump. Realistic expectations are way more enjoyable.
That was his pace post all-star break last year (actually, 49). And that's actually close to his pace post all-star break this year (47). But I agree that people get caught up with total points. To go with last year's 49-point pace, he was also -7 after the break. To be even while playing against better competition this year says he has improved, not declined.

To me, his unimpressive offensive numbers are much more the result of loss of d-men able to play big minutes on the Habs blue line than anything about Subban himself. PG gambled on Markov coming back (making Hamrlik expendable) and Gill staying the same (but he declined), if both those things had happened, PK could have been put in a more favorable position for offensive output.

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03-09-2012, 08:41 AM
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IceDaddy
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I dont think he had much of a slump at all. The expectations on this kid were so high, when he didnt meet them everyone started claiming slump.

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03-09-2012, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Because it really looked like a sophomore slump in the first 40 games (or so)
It only looked that way because he ended up on a lot of goal-against highlight reels and the puck wouldn't go in for him.

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03-09-2012, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
50+ points is very realistic. He clearly has the talent. I have enjoyed his play this season even while he failed to meet my points totals expectations, because I feel like I understand the reasons why he didn't. If he fails to meet them again next season, it will be for understandable reasons again, and hence again not make it "appear like he's in a slump" nor make it any less enjoyable to watch him play and progress.
50+ points is not realistic for a 2nd year player. PK did a lot of damage on the PP, but guess who he had with him? Wiz. A guy where teams had to respect his shot. That left PK open quite a bit. When teams took Wiz's shot away, he'd dump it to PK and bingo. Going into the season without Markov and teams keying in on Subban, I'm not sure how you think 50+ points is realistic.

I expected 40 from PK and he'll probably finish with 35.

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03-09-2012, 09:15 AM
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In my opinion, Subban has been really in the sophomore slump. He was terrible in the first half. He gets better in the the recent games though. His recent performance may slightly salvage his season.

Here, I exaggerate a bit.......saying that Subban is NOT in the sophomore slump is like saying Gomez has a good year after he scores 2 hat-tricks.

Even Gomez score 10 goals from now till the end of season, I still say that he has a terrible year. Even Subban score 8 goals from now till the end of season, I still say that he has the sophomore slump.

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03-09-2012, 09:21 AM
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when the teams wins
4G 13 A +23
when loss
2G 11 A -23

but he started badly 1st half season

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03-09-2012, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
In my opinion, Subban has been really in the sophomore slump. He was terrible in the first half. He gets better in the the recent games though. His recent performance may slightly salvage his season.

Here, I exaggerate a bit.......saying that Subban is NOT in the sophomore slump is like saying Gomez has a good year after he scores 2 hat-tricks.

Even Gomez score 10 goals from now till the end of season, I still say that he has a terrible year. Even Subban score 8 goals from now till the end of season, I still say that he has the sophomore slump.
Are you basing this only on Subban's offence?

His defensive play is head and shoulders above what it was last year. He plays against top opposition and still has respectable production, while improving his +/- to an even rating on a team that is FILLED with minuses.

I don't see a sophmore slump, I see a dman who focussed more on his defensive game.

We can't forget that the majority of this team, with the worst PP in the NHL, has had too many slumping p[layers to make a true judgement on his offensive production.

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03-09-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Are you basing this only on Subban's offence?

His defensive play is head and shoulders above what it was last year. He plays against top opposition and still has respectable production, while improving his +/- to an even rating on a team that is FILLED with minuses.

I don't see a sophmore slump, I see a dman who focussed more on his defensive game.

We can't forget that the majority of this team, with the worst PP in the NHL, has had too many slumping p[layers to make a true judgement on his offensive production.
He's improving but he hasn't been great defensively this year. Lots of mistakes.

It's the kind of mistakes you should expect from a young blueliner though, esp one with his offensive skill set. He's still trying to find the line between when he should make a rush and when he should make a safe play. He's improved since the beginning of the year and will continue to do so. But he's not the Norris candidate that some are trying to make him out to be. He makes too many unforced errors to be considered stellar defensively. He might be down the road but not now.

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03-09-2012, 09:29 AM
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Halifaxhab
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He's improving but he hasn't been great defensively this year. Lots of mistakes.

It's the kind of mistakes you should expect from a young blueliner though, esp one with his offensive skill set. He's still trying to find the line between when he should make a rush and when he should make a safe play. He's improved since the beginning of the year and will continue to do so. But he's not the Norris candidate that some are trying to make him out to be. He makes too many unforced errors to be considered stellar defensively. He might be down the road but not now.

Not arguing that at all. But he's playing top pairing instead of 2nd / 3rd pairing. What I've seen is a steady decline in errors and an increase of his on-ice awareness. He isn't quite there. But his progression has taken a giant leap forward

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03-09-2012, 09:38 AM
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Myron Gaines*
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Subban is victim of our GM's short comings. Markov's absence left him completely vulnerable. But as the baller and gangsta that Subban is, he's learning from it and is rounding his game. He'll be better thanks to this year.

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