i doubt any team would rather have sheahan than kuznetsov. sheahan will probably be a checking C, while kuznetsov will probably be a top 6 scorer. i think it is safe to say that kuznetsov's chances of becoming an elite player are much higher than sheahan's.
obviously, there is a significant chance kuznetsov is a bust, or stays in russia, but i don't think it is really any more than the chance sheahan is a bust, or is not any better than a player who could be easily acquired.
draper cost only $1. miller was claimed off waivers. dan cleary was signed in '06 for about $500,000. flyers signed blair betts for about $500,000 in '10.
b/c depth players are so much more easy to acquire, i don't see much point in drafting them early. i don't see much point in drafting them at all, other than for the possibility they will become more than role players.
Stop the ****ing debate. Kuznetzov is good, but he is not A RED WINGS PROSPECT!!!!!!!! Look at the title of this thread before you de-rail it for 2 pages with this ****-throwing "debate"...Sheahan is who the wings drafted.
You should probably take your own advice about thinking. Let me try to make it real simple and hopefully this will help you out.
I am not comparing apples and Saabs (Kindl as an NHL'er compared to Kronwall in Sweden). I am comparing apples to apples (Kronner and Kindl as AHL'ers, Brendan Smith and Kindl as AHL'ers). They were all first round draft pick d-men, they were all considered offensive defensemen with high skill. The AHL was their first taste of pro hockey in North America. Kronwall and Smith were/are top d-men at the AHL level. Kindl sucked. Sorry to be so blunt but I want to make this as clear as possible for you. Kindl had the worst plus/minus in the entire AHL.
So, in short: Kindl was drafted to be a Niklas Kronwall, a Brendan Smith. He's a Brett Lebda. Remind me where the Red Wings drafted Brett Lebda again? Oh that's right, he was signed as a free agent after never being drafted. Kindl's been passed by Jonathan Ericsson and will be passed up by Smith as soon as Brendan Smith is given a fair shot in the lineup. The only chance he has to stay in the lineup is if Lids retires and Stuart heads off to the west coast and Ken Holland can't sign a high quality UFA d-man.
OK, I try to explain to you: Kindl is not a better nor a worse player because other players on the team are better/worse then him, okay?! Yes, Detroit is a packed team with a very deep blue line. Great evaluation. Did you come up with that alone or did you have help?!
Honestly... Lidström, White, Stuart, Kronwall are great players. Smith is a terrific prospect. Its not like you need special secret knowledge in nuclear physics or anything to know that.
And yes, it MIGHT change the chances of Kindl playing on that team. But it does not in the very big pattern make him a worse player!
He has his tools. And your comparison between him and Kronwall is not adequate. Yes, they both played AHL. Yes, Kroner was better. BUT Kroner played FOUR years of pro-hockey in Sweden before coming over. Kindl played juniors. Kronwall had 20 games of NHL under his belt before he had his great all-Star season on a WINNING (!!!) Grand Rapids team. Kindl was a junior-player learning the ropes of a pro game on an team that could not a coin toss in 50 tries!
Then you said Kindl was the leagues worst minus player coming in. And you are true. So he WAS bad defensively. NOONE on planet earth disputes that. But we are not taling about the 2008-version of him. We are talking about the 2012 Kindl. And he improved in huge leaps! He is now a PLUS-player on an NHL-team! So that shows us a POSITIVE thing about him: He is willing and able to LEARN. He CAN improve siginifantly and he has the mind to bring elements to his game.
What that tells me - should tell us? Kindl is a player that has the ability to make himself a better, a completer player over time. His +/- improved almost every year and on every level he played. His points in GR indicate that he CAN bring offense. And you see it when he plays in the NHL. Bob stated that in his post. He has good passing, good vision, a good shot and might eventually become a very good 2nd PP-guy.
He might keep on improving his d - this ability to be there seems more likely then not at this point - and he might learn to play more physical. He IS a willing learner as proven above!
Oh and in evaluating the value of Kindl NOW it is absolutely irrelevant where he was drafted! He now IS property of the wings. Full stop. Whether he was drafted in the first round or Mr. Irrelevant, whether he was acquired in a trade for dirty cheap or for half the earth and a small coke, whether he was a FA-signing... It does not change a thing! Otherwise Ericsson would have to have a free-pass for any error, blunder, whatever he can possibly do!
Kindl may not become the offensive dynamo he was hoped for some 5-7 years ago. But he IS an NHL-type dman. He has the tools I already mentioned. He plays a solid season and still has room to improve, both offensively and defensively. So WHY do you bash the guy with every word you say? Did he steal your parking lot? Did he take your gf from you? Honestly... I do not get it!
OK, I try to explain to you: Kindl is not a better nor a worse player because other players on the team are better/worse then him, okay?! Yes, Detroit is a packed team with a very deep blue line. Great evaluation. Did you come up with that alone or did you have help?!
Honestly... Lidström, White, Stuart, Kronwall are great players. Smith is a terrific prospect. Its not like you need special secret knowledge in nuclear physics or anything to know that.
And yes, it MIGHT change the chances of Kindl playing on that team. But it does not in the very big pattern make him a worse player!
He has his tools. And your comparison between him and Kronwall is not adequate. Yes, they both played AHL. Yes, Kroner was better. BUT Kroner played FOUR years of pro-hockey in Sweden before coming over. Kindl played juniors. Kronwall had 20 games of NHL under his belt before he had his great all-Star season on a WINNING (!!!) Grand Rapids team. Kindl was a junior-player learning the ropes of a pro game on an team that could not a coin toss in 50 tries!
Then you said Kindl was the leagues worst minus player coming in. And you are true. So he WAS bad defensively. NOONE on planet earth disputes that. But we are not taling about the 2008-version of him. We are talking about the 2012 Kindl. And he improved in huge leaps! He is now a PLUS-player on an NHL-team! So that shows us a POSITIVE thing about him: He is willing and able to LEARN. He CAN improve siginifantly and he has the mind to bring elements to his game.
What that tells me - should tell us? Kindl is a player that has the ability to make himself a better, a completer player over time. His +/- improved almost every year and on every level he played. His points in GR indicate that he CAN bring offense. And you see it when he plays in the NHL. Bob stated that in his post. He has good passing, good vision, a good shot and might eventually become a very good 2nd PP-guy.
He might keep on improving his d - this ability to be there seems more likely then not at this point - and he might learn to play more physical. He IS a willing learner as proven above!
Oh and in evaluating the value of Kindl NOW it is absolutely irrelevant where he was drafted! He now IS property of the wings. Full stop. Whether he was drafted in the first round or Mr. Irrelevant, whether he was acquired in a trade for dirty cheap or for half the earth and a small coke, whether he was a FA-signing... It does not change a thing! Otherwise Ericsson would have to have a free-pass for any error, blunder, whatever he can possibly do!
Kindl may not become the offensive dynamo he was hoped for some 5-7 years ago. But he IS an NHL-type dman. He has the tools I already mentioned. He plays a solid season and still has room to improve, both offensively and defensively. So WHY do you bash the guy with every word you say? Did he steal your parking lot? Did he take your gf from you? Honestly... I do not get it!
I find this incredibly boring so let me change the subject: how about that Brendan Smith?
*0.57 PPG THIS SEASON in Detroit
*Solid defensive play
*Grit
*And he fights
Can't wait until he's allowed to play in the NHL for good.
One assist for Pulkkinen tonight, a primary assist in a real tick-tack-toe play from which I.Filppula scored. The two are now on the same line with Janne Lahti as the 3rd forward so offensive production is expected from them. Filppula&Lahti just returned from injuries, though, so it could take a while for them to get going.
i doubt any team would rather have sheahan than kuznetsov. sheahan will probably be a checking C, while kuznetsov will probably be a top 6 scorer. i think it is safe to say that kuznetsov's chances of becoming an elite player are much higher than sheahan's.
obviously, there is a significant chance kuznetsov is a bust, or stays in russia, but i don't think it is really any more than the chance sheahan is a bust, or is not any better than a player who could be easily acquired.
draper cost only $1. miller was claimed off waivers. dan cleary was signed in '06 for about $500,000. flyers signed blair betts for about $500,000 in '10.
b/c depth players are so much more easy to acquire, i don't see much point in drafting them early. i don't see much point in drafting them at all, other than for the possibility they will become more than role players.
Agreed for the most part.
Though Sheahan has something Draper does not - and that is size and ridiculous strength, to go along with his speed, defensive play and decent skills. He's a bull on skates, which I think makes him more valuable than your typical grinder.
Not saying the Wings couldn't have done better with that pick, but I'm not too upset with it as it addresses a shortcoming (roster and prospect pipeline is full of smaller skill players).
Out of all the relatively untalked about prospects, I think Jensen has just as high of a ceiling as a lot of guys and is probably our number 2 dman prospect behind Smith.
Oh, and while Dan DeKeyser isn't a Red Wings prospect he was second team all CCHA this year.
Curious if he was where people would rate him. I still think Ouellet is in front of him along with Smith, but DeKeyser is farther along in his development. I guess the question for me is does he beat out Jensen for #3, I am pretty high on that kid as well.
Yeah for some very weird reason google sometimes translates "Kärpät" to Detroit Red Wings. It actually means "weasels", so I really don't know what's going on there.
Yeah for some very weird reason google sometimes translates "Kärpät" to Detroit Red Wings. It actually means "weasels", so I really don't know what's going on there.
Lol somebody at google has a good sense of humor. Rival fans.
Curious if he was where people would rate him. I still think Ouellet is in front of him along with Smith, but DeKeyser is farther along in his development. I guess the question for me is does he beat out Jensen for #3, I am pretty high on that kid as well.
I haven't watched either guy play but I'd put him firmly in the top 4 ahead of Sproul right now. Both him and Jensen are playing at a high level in the NCAA. Ouellet is dominating the Q so he's probably a small step ahead of Jensen and DeKeyser.
Brynas is known in Swedish hockey as whiners, stretching back in time for as far as I can remember. It's simply a hated team, and thus the best player is hated.
And as you see, the same three players (Jarnkrok, Wallin, Berglund) are voted as both least likeable and overrated.. Farjestad is also a hated team.
