Hi guys, I'm a long time reader first time poster. I have to say I like the direction the Oilers are going and although it's been frustrating, I'm excited to see how much better we'll be in the coming years.
I'd like to ask, we all know Eberle has been a beast for us this year but where would we rate him overall vs guys from the same draft?
Names like Stamkos, Doughty, Peitrangelo, Myers and Karlsson have all made significant contributions to their clubs but can Eberle be mentioned among them?
I'd personally put him 3rd.
Stamkos
Peitrangelo
Eberle
Karlsson
Doughty
Myers
Karlsson may well win the Norris. Doughty and Myers are having a tough time, but both were well within throwing distance of Norris consideration themselves.
No matter where you put him, that's a great list to be on though.
Wow that was a pretty good draft looking back on it. Oilers really fortunate to have gotten Eberle.
Karlsson is doing some amazing things, I want to see if this is just one big year for him or if he can do that consistently, because even Doughty has been on a decline for the last couple of seasons after having that Norris-caliber year.
IMO opinion it's always a mess trying to compare FWD's and D's so I'd remove the D's from this comparison. How would you rate Norris vs Art Ross, or Norris vs Maurice Rocket? I guess the Hart trophy gives a hint on how these awards stand against each other seeing that the Hart has gone to a FWD the last 8 times but personally I don't really agree with that. Just as one example I'd have picked Lidstrom for the Hart in 05/06 (not taking away anything from Thorton though, he had an amazing season).
Eberle has an uncanny ability to overachieve expectations. I would not be surprised, when all's said and done, he ends up in the top 5 from that draft class.
Eberle has an uncanny ability to overachieve expectations. I would not be surprised, when all's said and done, he ends up in the top 5 from that draft class.
I think he's already unquestionably in the top 5 of that draft class already. Myers is good, but he's been declining the last few years, Eberle is already a ppg+ All-Star that looks to score 40+ goals soon.
I think he's already unquestionably in the top 5 of that draft class already. Myers is good, but he's been declining the last few years, Eberle is already a ppg+ All-Star that looks to score 40+ goals soon.
It's possible, but it's only one year. Eberle may only score 50 points next season and some guys who's developed slower may surge ahead. There are some wild cards among the players taken that year who still have tons of potential: Bogosian, Hodgson, Gardiner, Sbisa, Colbourne, Del Zotto, Carlson, Markstrom, Voynov, Stepan, Hamonic, Dalpe, L.Adam. Some of them may never amount to what Eberle is already, but it's too early to say.
It's possible, but it's only one year. Eberle may only score 50 points next season and some guys who's developed slower may surge ahead. There are some wild cards among the players taken that year who still have tons of potential: Bogosian, Hodgson, Gardiner, Sbisa, Colbourne, Del Zotto, Carlson, Markstrom, Voynov, Stepan, Hamonic, Dalpe, L.Adam. Some of them may never amount to what Eberle is already, but it's too early to say.
It's possible, but it's only one year. Eberle may only score 50 points next season and some guys who's developed slower may surge ahead. There are some wild cards among the players taken that year who still have tons of potential: Bogosian, Hodgson, Gardiner, Sbisa, Colbourne, Del Zotto, Carlson, Markstrom, Voynov, Stepan, Hamonic, Dalpe, L.Adam. Some of them may never amount to what Eberle is already, but it's too early to say.
Well you can also look at it this way -- there are like what only 7 ppg players in the NHL right now total? Eberle is one of them.
It would be kinda crazy if he can't even crack the top 5 of his own draft class, lol.
Eberle had a very good rookie season too, so it's not like this year is some kind "out of the blue" break out season.
Maybe it's because I'm living in Ottawa at the moment, but I don't think Eberle is above Karlsson at the moment. I love Eberle, and recognize that Karlsson isn't elite defensively, but he is unbelievably dynamic and drives the 4th best offense in the league.
Maybe it's because I'm living in Ottawa at the moment, but I don't think Eberle is above Karlsson at the moment. I love Eberle, and recognize that Karlsson isn't elite defensively, but he is unbelievably dynamic and drives the 4th best offense in the league.
I'd probably rate him ahead of Eberle right now, too. But I'm also not completely sold on him being as good as he is right now (I suppose you could say the same about Eberle, but I think his track record at all levels suggests he's the real deal).
Defensemen are tricky, like someone mentioned. Remember when the Hockey News had a, 'who is the best rookie: Crosby/Ovechkin/Phaneuf?' cover article? I think Brian Burke was quoted as saying Phaneuf, even.
Having said that, I think Karlsson's amazing. Would love to him with iur young forwards. But I'm not quite ready to lose my mind over him.
I'd probably rate him ahead of Eberle right now, too. But I'm also not completely sold on him being as good as he is right now (I suppose you could say the same about Eberle, but I think his track record at all levels suggests he's the real deal).
Defensemen are tricky, like someone mentioned. Remember when the Hockey News had a, 'who is the best rookie: Crosby/Ovechkin/Phaneuf?' cover article? I think Brian Burke was quoted as saying Phaneuf, even.
Having said that, I think Karlsson's amazing. Would love to him with iur young forwards. But I'm not quite ready to lose my mind over him.
Well to be fair, if he continued at his current pace through his career, he would easily be the best offensive defensmen of our generation. In fact I would say he could drop off substantially and still be elite. Just from watching him , his mobility and vision is off the charts good.
But point taken. Mike Green looked unstoppable for a while, but injuries and what not have derailed him. Drew Doughty and Myers also.
Still, when a 21 year old is on pace for 80 points or so, that puts him in the Lidstrom, Coffey, Leetch, Borque category of offensive output. That's more impressive than a ppg forward IMO. He's having one of the more dominant offensive seasons by a d-man in our era at 21.
Stamkos #1
Doughty #2 (Olympic gold and one of the top Dmen in the tourney)
Karlsson #3
Eberle #4 or #5
AP #4 or #5 these two are not comparable but could be flip flopped on any given night.
Well you can also look at it this way -- there are like what only 7 ppg players in the NHL right now total? Eberle is one of them.
It would be kinda crazy if he can't even crack the top 5 of his own draft class, lol.
Eberle had a very good rookie season too, so it's not like this year is some kind "out of the blue" break out season.
He's riding some pretty ridiculous percentages right now though. He's shooting damn near 20%, just behind Stamkos and far and away ahead of the next on the list. In fact those two are the only guys in the top 30 shooting over 18%, something that happens infrequently enough to be a clear anomaly. I hope Oilers fans don't turn on him if he settles in as a 60 point player.
He's riding some pretty ridiculous percentages right now though. He's shooting damn near 20%, just behind Stamkos and far and away ahead of the next on the list. In fact those two are the only guys in the top 30 shooting over 18%, something that happens infrequently enough to be a clear anomaly. I hope Oilers fans don't turn on him if he settles in as a 60 point player.
It's true, but you've also got to think that Hall and RNH will improve their play, and you've got to also think the Oilers should be able to pick up/develop a defensmen to put up a few points. Having your top offensive contribution from the defense being Potter at 20 points (70th overall) really hurts production IMO.
You've got to think that on a reasonably balanced team and playing with Hall and RNH, he has ppg potential, even if his shooting percentage drops.
He's riding some pretty ridiculous percentages right now though. He's shooting damn near 20%, just behind Stamkos and far and away ahead of the next on the list. In fact those two are the only guys in the top 30 shooting over 18%, something that happens infrequently enough to be a clear anomaly. I hope Oilers fans don't turn on him if he settles in as a 60 point player.
i also agree that his shooting % will come down some, but i don't think he'll have too many seasons where he is around 10-11 (which is about average)... he clearly has a very, very, very good shot... he easily has the best shot we've seen on the oilers since guerin ... i would expect his career shooting to hover around 13-14 or so, which should easily give him 25-30 goals a season
i don't expect PPG seasons every year, but i'd be surprised if he isn't a consistent 60-65 point guy
What a terrific draft choice Eberle was. Fourth, fifth, third whatever, he's a great player. I think we can all agree on that. I'm hearing fans of other teams say now that he's the best of the three young guns. Good job, Stu.
I think that he's a clear 4th right now behind Stamkos, Petro and Karlsson and will likely be 5th going forward since i feel that Doughty is a lot better than he's showing this season....
1) Stamkos
2) Pietrangelo
3) Doughty
4) Karlsson
5) Eberle
This is how i see it over their careers.
That's an amazing draft when Eberle is clearly the 5th best player, it's more a testament to how great the top 4 likely will be as opposed to anything bad about Eberle.
i also agree that his shooting % will come down some, but i don't think he'll have too many seasons where he is around 10-11 (which is about average)... he clearly has a very, very, very good shot... he easily has the best shot we've seen on the oilers since guerin ... i would expect his career shooting to hover around 13-14 or so, which should easily give him 25-30 goals a season
i don't expect PPG seasons every year, but i'd be surprised if he isn't a consistent 60-65 point guy
While his shooting % will likely drop, other aspects of his game may improve to compensate for that drop in shooting percentage. Eberle seems to be a sponge. He's just getting better.
You're right though. 60-65 points on a consistent basis may be more in line for his entire career. But if he can put up 65 years in an average year and have a year of 80ish points every once in awhile I think you have to be absolutely thrilled with that.
(I realize I've basically just re-wrote everything you said haha)
Also right about his shot, it is deadly. Perhaps the most accurate I've ever seen from an Oiler. Fast, accurate and he can get it off quick in close. His backhand is also money.
I think that he's a clear 4th right now behind Stamkos, Petro and Karlsson and will likely be 5th going forward since i feel that Doughty is a lot better than he's showing this season....
1) Stamkos
2) Pietrangelo
3) Doughty
4) Karlsson
5) Eberle
This is how i see it over their careers.
That's an amazing draft when Eberle is clearly the 5th best player, it's more a testament to how great the top 4 likely will be as opposed to anything bad about Eberle.
That's funny though.
Only one of these D is Norris trophy candidate this year... EDIT: Just to be clear, that's Karlsson.
I am not talking about coulda/shoulda/woulda but jesus ******* christ, Karlsson is way ahead of Doughty at the moment, and more than a bit anhead of Pietrangelo (and I say that despite my man-crush on Pietrangelo...). Come on dude, Edm fans should know better than dissing Karlsson because of D (Coffey...).
EDIT 2: Oh and I basically agree with you even though I hate FWD vs D. I'd say at the moment 1. Stamkos, 2. Karlsson, 3. Eberle, 4 Pietreangelo, 5. Doughty.
I was just thinking about this the other day. With Eberle being my favourite Oiler, there's bound to be a bias in any ranking I do. Just an off the cuff stab at it, I think it would be something like:
Only one of these D is Norris trophy candidate this year...
I am not talking about coulda/shoulda/woulda but jesus ******* christ, Karlsson is way ahead of Doughty at the moment, and more than a bit anhead of Pietrangelo (and I say that despite my man-crush on Pietrangelo...). Come on dude, Edm fans should know better than dissing Karlsson because of D (Coffey...).
I'm projecting over their careers. I think that Doughty is way better than what he's showing this season, he has too many physical gifts to not bounce back big time and i think that Pietrangelo will be the best of all of them, i see multiple Norris's in his future without a doubt.
As you see in my grouping, i have them all fairly close with Stamkos being a level above all and Eberle being a level below the defensemen.
Here's the top 20 players from that draft ranked by the number of games they've played in the NHL so far:
Player Pos GP G A PTS +/- PIM
Steven Stamkos C 310 167 147 314 -7 207
Drew Doughty D 301 41 113 154 15 236
Luke Schenn D 295 14 58 72 -15 205
Josh Bailey C 276 44 63 107 -34 87
Zach Bogosian D 253 27 54 81 -41 188
Tyler Myers D 210 28 77 105 14 101
Erik Karlsson D 203 34 104 138 -21 110
Mikkel Boedker RW 194 24 40 64 4 38
Michael Del Zotto D 192 18 65 83 -1 86
Luca Sbisa D 183 6 33 39 -22 149
Colin Wilson C 180 39 44 83 13 45
John Carlson D 171 16 57 73 26 72
Jason Demers D 169 8 48 56 17 71
Alex Pietrangelo D 163 22 65 87 23 53
Derek Stepan C 148 36 53 89 30 32
Matt Martin LW 140 12 18 30 -26 272
Zack Smith C 139 20 16 36 -6 218
Jordan Eberle C 132 48 58 106 -12 30
Tyler Ennis C 126 30 43 73 2 46
Travis Hamonic D 120 6 35 41 11 160
Interesting to note that although it's commonly held that dmen take the longest to develop... 10 of the top 15 who have played the most NHL games so far from that draft are actually defensemen.
I was just thinking about this the other day. With Eberle being my favourite Oiler, there's bound to be a bias in any ranking I do. Just an off the cuff stab at it, I think it would be something like:
