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What happens to our centers next year?

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Old
03-09-2012, 12:26 PM
  #26
beowulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb View Post
But is Eller ready to take Plekanec's spot? I love Eller, but he's still learning.

Are we a better team without Plekanec? I very much doubt it.
Yet you're willing to throw a just drafted rookie on one of the first 2 lines.

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03-09-2012, 12:31 PM
  #27
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We just have to make sure to not have too much depth. That way if one of our player gets injured we get to call up Engqvist who is the ideal center.

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03-09-2012, 12:34 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb View Post
But is Eller ready to take Plekanec's spot? I love Eller, but he's still learning.Are we a better team without Plekanec? I very much doubt it.
We'll never likely know as long as Plekanec is on this team unfortunately. As long as Plekanec is on the roster, there really is only 1 other top 6 center spot up for grabs, this organization has consistenly placed hiearchy ahead of performance so unless there's a change in philosophy, I expect it to be the same.

Although I do agree, Eller has a lot to learn...there's no denying he's improved quite a bit as a player this year, you have to remember, he gets virtually no PP time and hasn't benefitted from playing in a top 6 role all year and he's still managed to be 3rd on the team in goals and first amongst centers.

As far as I'm concerned, Eller's role for the remaining 15 games should be expanded...he also deserves a shot to have an increased role next year and going forward.

Will the team be better without Plekanec? I think it at the very least can be a different team, which might make it better in the long run.

I advocated the habs shopping Plekanec at the deadline...not sure if they did or not, but I would try again this summer.

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03-09-2012, 12:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
Good luck dealing Pleks. He has a modified NTC.
Well i'm not saying they should give him away...and a modified NTC doesn't mean trading him is impossible.

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03-09-2012, 12:42 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
Good luck dealing Pleks. He has a modified NTC.
I'm not sure what the terms of his NTC are but I would think there are over half the teams in the NHL who would be interested in him. We don't need luck, we just have to make him available.

Also, if we make him a 3rd line centre next year with similar players to the ones he has had to endure with this year, I think he'll ask to be shipped out.

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03-09-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I agree, but you also don't rush to trade one of the Cs we already have, especially when Eller and to an extent DD are still learning.

If anything one of Plekanec or DD will be traded at the end of next season if Grig/Gal has a promising year.
I would really explore moving DD to wing where his size would be less of an issue.

He's a really smart player so he'll adapt offensively. He's able to forecheck and win enough offensive zone battles now.

Defensively on the wing he wont have to help the D down low. Containing forward when they are protecting the puck and cycling is his biggest issue.

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03-09-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I'm not sure what the terms of his NTC are but I would think there are over half the teams in the NHL who would be interested in him. We don't need luck, we just have to make him available.

Also, if we make him a 3rd line centre next year with similar players to the ones he has had to endure with this year, I think he'll ask to be shipped out.
Why would they do that ?

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03-09-2012, 12:56 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Yet you're willing to throw a just drafted rookie on one of the first 2 lines.
No I wouldn't.

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03-09-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Why would they do that ?
For the same reason they took AK and Cammalleri away from him, I don't know.

I don't see them providing him with anything other than 3rd line wingers because that is all they have available. Then he is more or less stuck with 3rd line checking responsibilities with 3rd line wingers.

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03-09-2012, 01:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I would really explore moving DD to wing where his size would be less of an issue.

He's a really smart player so he'll adapt offensively. He's able to forecheck and win enough offensive zone battles now.

Defensively on the wing he wont have to help the D down low. Containing forward when they are protecting the puck and cycling is his biggest issue.
I tend to agree with this, I think Desharnais could thrive on the wing. I hope the option is explored and it's one reason I don't want to see a rush to trade anyone, unless a team desperately wants Plekanec and offers a package you can't turn down. I really want to see Eller and DD play together.

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03-09-2012, 01:06 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I would really explore moving DD to wing where his size would be less of an issue.

He's a really smart player so he'll adapt offensively. He's able to forecheck and win enough offensive zone battles now.

Defensively on the wing he wont have to help the D down low. Containing forward when they are protecting the puck and cycling is his biggest issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I tend to agree with this, I think Desharnais could thrive on the wing. I hope the option is explored and it's one reason I don't want to see a rush to trade anyone, unless a team desperately wants Plekanec and offers a package you can't turn down. I really want to see Eller and DD play together.
My perfect scenario is to keep all three centers as they are until Galchenyuk or Grigorenko are ready. Then I'd play him with Pacioretty and DD on the right wing. I'd prefer Gals because he looks like the better goal scorer out of the two.

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03-09-2012, 01:08 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Is that right? Lars Eller despite getting VERY minimal icetime on the PP and with prime linemates, is THIRD on the team in goals and FIRST amongst centers

Personally, I thought the Habs should of tried dealing Plekanec at the deadline...so it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out because to me, Desharnais and Eller are two of the players that have shown the most growth and I hate to think the coaching staff will continue to stunt their growth by stubbornly playing Plekanec in a top 6 role.
I think the world of Eller but Plex is proven, DD is a fixture with MaxPac and Grigs is a potential franchise centre man.
Is this what "depth" feels lIke?

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03-09-2012, 01:11 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Is that right? Lars Eller despite getting VERY minimal icetime on the PP and with prime linemates, is THIRD on the team in goals and FIRST amongst centers

Personally, I thought the Habs should of tried dealing Plekanec at the deadline...so it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out because to me, Desharnais and Eller are two of the players that have shown the most growth and I hate to think the coaching staff will continue to stunt their growth by stubbornly playing Plekanec in a top 6 role.
Eller should be #2 and Grigs #1

Folks the the small guy is a bandaid for us , he is not top 6 material on any good team

what good team would the small guy be the #1 center ????

he lacks size, speed and top end skill like a Fleury , or St.Louis


Pleks has to get moved , period this summer

If we dont draft Grigs , Leblanc should be groomed as on of our top 2 centers

he was a center when drafted and now he is a right winger in the minors

the dude has a very high hockey IQ

as good as the small guy has played ...we are 15th folks

are you guys going to tell me that Leblanc and Eller is any worse

than the the Pleks/DD combo at center

give them top 6 minutes , pp time and the same wingers what drop off would you see for a 15th place team ? at least they have upside


Last edited by Unholy: 03-10-2012 at 01:17 AM. Reason: ..
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Old
03-09-2012, 01:11 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I think the world of Eller but Plex is proven, DD is a fixture with MaxPac and Grigs is a potential franchise centre man.
Is this what "depth" feels lIke?
Not yet lol remember, this team might wake up and F it all up for us

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03-09-2012, 01:17 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
My perfect scenario is to keep all three centers as they are until Galchenyuk or Grigorenko are ready. Then I'd play him with Pacioretty and DD on the right wing. I'd prefer Gals because he looks like the better goal scorer out of the two.
Galchenyuk might be the most complete forward of this draft. Obviously it's hard to say because of his injury but his speed and aggression is perfect for the kind of identity we want.

Either way I hope we are conservative with the pick. The focus of next year should be to see just how much of a fluke this season actually was; I'm more concerned about overhauling the defense and getting a real coach than the forwards.

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03-09-2012, 01:43 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
re you guys going to tell me that Leblanc and Eller is any worse

than the the Pleks/DD combo at center

give them top 6 minutes , pp time and the same wingers what drop off would you see for a 15th place team ? at least they have upside
Leblanc's challenge right now is to prove he belongs in the NHL, not to win a top 2 center job. If Plekanec isn't performing to your expectations, the answer isn't to have our prospects skip steps.

The "can't be any worse argument" doesn't have legs. There can always be worse.

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03-09-2012, 01:50 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
We'll never likely know as long as Plekanec is on this team unfortunately. As long as Plekanec is on the roster, there really is only 1 other top 6 center spot up for grabs, this organization has consistenly placed hiearchy ahead of performance so unless there's a change in philosophy, I expect it to be the same.

Although I do agree, Eller has a lot to learn...there's no denying he's improved quite a bit as a player this year, you have to remember, he gets virtually no PP time and hasn't benefitted from playing in a top 6 role all year and he's still managed to be 3rd on the team in goals and first amongst centers.

As far as I'm concerned, Eller's role for the remaining 15 games should be expanded...he also deserves a shot to have an increased role next year and going forward.

Will the team be better without Plekanec? I think it at the very least can be a different team, which might make it better in the long run.

I advocated the habs shopping Plekanec at the deadline...not sure if they did or not, but I would try again this summer.
I'm not sure the Habs were shopping Plekanec this year. I actually doubt they were.

Moving forward however, it depends on their vision of what needs to happen.
If they don't mind risking another poor year, then I could see them trade off Plekanec, maybe even at the draft, or at least for a 1st rounder next year if not a top end prospect+. But that would mean going into next year, with two centers that are still a little bit unproven.

I don't have much doubt that Eller will become as good as Plekanec, if not better. He's improved his defensive game tremendously since his first days here. He will keep getting stronger, and as seen with AK, if given top 6 talent on his wings, he can create very nice things.

As for DD, I wished our dumb coach would have tried different line combos, because we really have not seen DD with anybody outside MaxPac and Cole. I'm grabbing on to the fact he was good in last year's playoffs with Gomez and Gionta, but I would have preferred to see more line combos with him this year.

I don't think Grigs or Gal should make the team next year as centers. So if they do, I don't expect us to be all that competitive, unless DD and Eller both have impressive years.


If the plan is to compete next year however, then I don't see Plekanec get traded unless we package him for a better player. But I think that's unlikely.
I could see us keep him, with DD and Eller, and put Grigs or Gal on the wing of the third line.


It's a little difficult to know though without truly knowing what direction Molson will take. If he does fire Gauthier, then who will replace him and what will his vision be.

In any event, with the emergence of DD and Eller slowly happening, I think we should at least explore the option of trading Plekanec because he would attract a lot of attention imo.

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03-09-2012, 01:51 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I think the world of Eller but Plex is proven, DD is a fixture with MaxPac and Grigs is a potential franchise centre man.
Is this what "depth" feels lIke?
As I mentioned earlier...as long as Plekanec is on this roster, regardless of his performance, there is only 1 other top 6 center spot available...and that's even debateable considering Desharnais has also firmly established himself in the top 6

So Eller's not going to get much change to 'prove' himself because he's not going to get a chance to play with top 6 wingers, he's not going to get PP time, his PK time will be limited

So eventually, he'll either regress or never get a real shot with the Habs, then he'll get traded to a team that's willing to give him a shot and he'll likely proceed to make us regret trading him like almost every other ex-Hab

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03-09-2012, 01:51 PM
  #44
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I agree. Leblanc isn't a centre in the NHL, he's right winger with 2nd line upside if he spends the next 2-3 years getting a lot stronger and bigger and more explosive.

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03-09-2012, 01:54 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
Eller should be #2 and Grigs #1

Folks the small guy is a bandaid for us , he is not top 6 material on any good team

what good team would the small guy be the #1 center ????

he lacks size, speed and top end skill like a Fleury , or St.Louis


Pleks has to get moved , period this summer

If we dont draft Grigs , Leblanc should be groomed as on of our top 2 centers

he was a center when drafted and now he is a right winger in the minors

the dude has a very high hockey IQ

as good as the small guy has played ...we are 15th folks

are you guys going to tell me that Leblanc and Eller is any worse

than the the Pleks/DD combo at center

give them top 6 minutes , pp time and the same wingers what drop off would you see for a 15th place team ? at least they have upside
Perfect recipe for catastrophy. Bring on McKinnon !


Last edited by Unholy: 03-10-2012 at 01:18 AM.
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03-09-2012, 01:56 PM
  #46
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Perfect recipe for catastrophy. Bring on McKinnon !
Do we then trade Eller to keep up the trend of putting far too much expectation on young players?

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03-09-2012, 01:56 PM
  #47
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I'm not sure the Habs were shopping Plekanec this year. I actually doubt they were.

Moving forward however, it depends on their vision of what needs to happen.
If they don't mind risking another poor year, then I could see them trade off Plekanec, maybe even at the draft, or at least for a 1st rounder next year if not a top end prospect+. But that would mean going into next year, with two centers that are still a little bit unproven.

I don't have much doubt that Eller will become as good as Plekanec, if not better. He's improved his defensive game tremendously since his first days here. He will keep getting stronger, and as seen with AK, if given top 6 talent on his wings, he can create very nice things.

As for DD, I wished our dumb coach would have tried different line combos, because we really have not seen DD with anybody outside MaxPac and Cole. I'm grabbing on to the fact he was good in last year's playoffs with Gomez and Gionta, but I would have preferred to see more line combos with him this year.

I don't think Grigs or Gal should make the team next year as centers. So if they do, I don't expect us to be all that competitive, unless DD and Eller both have impressive years.


If the plan is to compete next year however, then I don't see Plekanec get traded unless we package him for a better player. But I think that's unlikely.
I could see us keep him, with DD and Eller, and put Grigs or Gal on the wing of the third line.


It's a little difficult to know though without truly knowing what direction Molson will take. If he does fire Gauthier, then who will replace him and what will his vision be.

In any event, with the emergence of DD and Eller slowly happening, I think we should at least explore the option of trading Plekanec because he would attract a lot of attention imo.
I'm not sure I agree trading Plekanec means the Habs won't be competitive...

They'll be a different team, doesn't mean they can't be successful...also, let's not forget, we're sitting in 15th today, things couldn't get any worse if you ask me

Again, I know this isn't a popular opinion but I would look at shopping Plekanec for a package of assets (NHL ready prospect(s) and/or draft picks)

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03-09-2012, 01:59 PM
  #48
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Do we then trade Eller to keep up the trend of putting far too much expectation on young players?

No need at all to trade Eller. Give him more time on the 3rd line and and give less time to Plekanec (on PP or PK), so he is more effective on the long run.


Everyone here assume that Gomez is gone... He is not yet, and I will beleive it when I see it.

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03-09-2012, 01:59 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I'm not sure I agree trading Plekanec means the Habs won't be competitive...

They'll be a different team, doesn't mean they can't be successful...also, let's not forget, we're sitting in 15th today, things couldn't get any worse if you ask me

Again, I know this isn't a popular opinion but I would look at shopping Plekanec for a package of assets (NHL ready prospect(s) and/or draft picks)
If anything, our defense this season was a great case study in what happens when you move forward with inexperienced players and prospects. Plekanec is far from untouchable but the centers were the least of our problem this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
No need at all to trade Eller. Give him more time on the 3rd line and and give less time to Plekanec (on PP or PK), so he is more effective on the long run.
This is why before we trade any core players I'd like to see how our lines do under a coach who can balance roles.

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03-09-2012, 02:17 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I'm not sure I agree trading Plekanec means the Habs won't be competitive...

They'll be a different team, doesn't mean they can't be successful...also, let's not forget, we're sitting in 15th today, things couldn't get any worse if you ask me

Again, I know this isn't a popular opinion but I would look at shopping Plekanec for a package of assets (NHL ready prospect(s) and/or draft picks)
I'm not sure trading Plek means Habs won't be competitive either. That's why I specifically wrote ''risk not being competitive''.
It will depend on DD and Eller, and as much as they are very interesting, it's still a question mark how they can lead our top 6 group. There's also the fact we'd be in deep doodoo if we lost either one to injury (even with Grigs or Gal there, I don't think they're ready for top 6 NHL time).

So, as I said, it would be a risk. A risk I'd have no problem taking if that's the direction management wants to take.
Considering the play of both DD and Eller, and their salaries/age, then Plekanec becomes the obvious moving piece.

I have no issues with moving Plekanec, and I'm a huge fan of him. I actually think we have to move him by the summer of 2013. The only reason why I wouldn't move him is because we'd be cup contenders by then, but I doubt that will be the case. I agree, trading him for top prospects or 1st round picks would definitely be something to deeply consider.

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