Answer: Formerly people like Staples plus whoever else helps out with it.
But its garbage in garbage out. AS it was with his infamous "errors" stat.
Years ago here Staples was a poster and there were long drawn out discussions on his "errors" stat.
Staples being a fellow that couldn't adequately understand that giving a Centre an "error" each time they lost a faceoff that led to a GA was going to produce significant noise in the data as compared to the analysis with other players. Or that D were involved in many more puck battles and so would lose more puck battles leading to GA
Heres another one:
I noted often that a player like Omark who never gets anywhere near his own net or battles in own zone rarely got credited with an error. He did great on this stat. For the fact being you won't find a player on this team that is more averse to doing anything in own zone. The players that were getting credited with errors leading to GA were the ones most likely being involved in a battle for puck in own zone. With the players you'd want to have on your team often being those that the errors stat would make out to be the worst offenders.
I would take some of these stats and apply the inverse of what they are indicating..
The Nielson numbers are better, but again its a case of who's inputting the numbers. That Staples is even presenting data on Schultz compared to other players after 3GP completely belies any operative understanding of statistics.
Cool, thanks for breaking it down for me. Makes sense.
Tied his Minny point totals this year in what? 5 games? All the wild fans said "This guy has no offensive upside." he's actually shown a lot that he is more then just a stay st home. His rush last night deserving a hooking call against him was just another example. Do you think it's just because he's getting the green light here?
Tied his Minny point totals this year in what? 5 games? All the wild fans said "This guy has no offensive upside." he's actually shown a lot that he is more then just a stay st home. His rush last night deserving a hooking call against him was just another example. Do you think it's just because he's getting the green light here?
I'd say that has a little bit to do with it yeah. I also think there is that initial "adrenaline rush" from being traded and wanting to prove himself, plus a little bit of luck.
Tied his Minny point totals this year in what? 5 games? All the wild fans said "This guy has no offensive upside." he's actually shown a lot that he is more then just a stay st home. His rush last night deserving a hooking call against him was just another example. Do you think it's just because he's getting the green light here?
I read in the paper today that Renney did speak to him about jumping into the play when Schultz felt he could do so.
Which is nice. I don't expect him to get 40 points, but if he can chip in occasionally, along with his good defensive play, it will be a nice trade for the Oilers.
so far, it looks pretty good.
Schultz is so damn steady. I hope all of the Gilbert lovers are finally seeing the light.
I don't know why the trade boosters are so desperate to paint this as a one-sided win for the Oilers when even those of us who had (and continue to have) their doubts basically said it was a fair exchange. It's even stranger when you look at how Schultz has been used in his short time here.
I don't know why the trade boosters are so desperate to paint this as a one-sided win for the Oilers when even those of us who had (and continue to have) their doubts basically said it was a fair exchange. It's even stranger when you look at how Schultz has been used in his short time here.
Which would be almost exactly as Gilbert was used (minus the miniscule PP time)?
I don't know why the trade boosters are so desperate to paint this as a one-sided win for the Oilers when even those of us who had (and continue to have) their doubts basically said it was a fair exchange. It's even stranger when you look at how Schultz has been used in his short time here.
I'd say the fact that Shultz doesn't run around and look lost in his own end every shift is a great upgrade for Edmonton. Plus with how soft Tom was he was getting beat on strength alone which is something you can see in Shultz game that he's been good with. I'm not saying this was a landslide win but if I had to choose one to be on the oil it's Shultz 100%
Bottom pairing babysitter? That was never Gilbert's role.
Fair enough but I don't think Schultz is playing on the bottom pairing because of his ability but like you said more to make sure that pair doesn't get eaten alive (playing with Peckham or Sutton).
I'd say that has a little bit to do with it yeah. I also think there is that initial "adrenaline rush" from being traded and wanting to prove himself, plus a little bit of luck.
He's also showing hands unlike his play in Minnesota. His switch from forehand to backhand in traffic to change up the angle and make a better shot on net is something one expects from a forward and not necessarily a stay at home D.
As in the case with Sutton I think we(me) sometimes forget that these guys have been playing for hockey and have a lot more skills than they are typically allowed to express.
Both Sutton and Schultz show way more offense, and way more adept skill at it, than one would expect.
The guy has soft hands. Setup Ryan Smyth excellently. Looked like Eberle setting up somebody.
I'm getting the feeling Schultz is loving his extra roles up here.
I thought last night's game was Schutlz's best as an Oiler thus far. There were a couple of plays that I'm sure he wished he had back but those were plays that his d partner should have covered for him. It's just a shame that his d partner had to be Peckham for most of the game. By rights Schutlz should be one of our 2nd pairing dmen along with Whitney and at first I was cursing on Renney for not putting him there. But the more I thought about it the more I realized that either Schultz or Whitney got to play there. We're not gonna split up Smid and Petry right now and if we played Whitney and Schutlz on the 2nd unit who does that leave as the 3rd pairing? Peckham-Potter? Sutton-Peckham? or even worse Potter-Barker or Barker-Peckham? Opposition would have a field day playing against these guys, not to mention we'd be the whole game on the penalty kill especially if Peckham is playing. I'd still like to see Schultz receive more minutes but until we can pick up another reliable defenceman we gotta use Schultz with one of these other scrubs just to make all 3 pairings at least somewhat reliable.
I would like to see this for our d next year
Smid-Petry
Shultz-Whitney
Sutton-Teubert/Potter
Potter/Teubert
I hope the oilers trade Peckham, and release Barker. Give Klefbom and Marincin top pairing minutes in the AHL, if they are ready. IF not sheltered minutes in the AHL. That defence core is still weak but a small improvement over this year and last years. Is that defence good enough for a playoff push? I have my doubts
Limited talk regarding how our GM went out and made it happen when no one expected it.
We bash him a lot. Sometimes he's more savvy than we appreciate.
He's been playing quite nicely but it's been 5 games. I think most rational fans are caustiously optimistic but we should all wait before judging the deal at all.
I would like to see this for our d next year
Smid-Petry
Shultz-Whitney
Sutton-Teubert/Potter
Potter/Teubert
I hope the oilers trade Peckham, and release Barker. Give Klefbom and Marincin top pairing minutes in the AHL, if they are ready. IF not sheltered minutes in the AHL. That defence core is still weak but a small improvement over this year and last years. Is that defence good enough for a playoff push? I have my doubts
This likely is the defense you will see next season. I honestly would rather have Peckham over Potter though.
the thing with Schultz is that the effort he gave in teh first game with us through the 5 he's played with us has been high intensity, that is what you get night in and night out, consistency is never going to be an issue.
I would like to see this for our d next year
Smid-Petry
Shultz-Whitney
Sutton-Murray
Potter/Teubert
I hope the oilers trade Peckham, and release Barker. Give Klefbom and Marincin top pairing minutes in the AHL, if they are ready. IF not sheltered minutes in the AHL. That defence core is still weak but a small improvement over this year and last years. Is that defence good enough for a playoff push? I have my doubts
I would like to see this for our d next year
Smid-Petry
Shultz-Whitney
Sutton-Teubert/Potter
Potter/Teubert
I hope the oilers trade Peckham, and release Barker. Give Klefbom and Marincin top pairing minutes in the AHL, if they are ready. IF not sheltered minutes in the AHL. That defence core is still weak but a small improvement over this year and last years. Is that defence good enough for a playoff push? I have my doubts
If we can somehow add Ryan Suter to this lineup it could be enough to put us right in the thick of things to make a playoff run. I'd still like to pick up a #1 goalie as well but I honestly believe if we had a better defensive core Khabibulin could actually be enough to get the job done. Still don't have alot of faith in Dubnyk.
In a way though the Neilsen +/- is far less of a unit derived stat than almost any of the variants out there. The stat is based of of the individuals actual contribution to a scoring chance either positive or negative. So at least a player is given the + or the - if they actually had something to do with what really happened.
Of all of the "advanced stats" this is almost surely the one that has the broadest acceptance.
The real issue for Schultz is the sample size.
The main issue, IMO, is that Neilsen still doesn't take into account the varios real time scenarios that occur during the play in a game. There are no real parameters that define what is a "contribution to a scoring chance" and still leaves out too many variables that can be manipulated by other players, hence the unit based slant.
It's a useful tool in surface examination, but the lack of accountability for multiple variables makes it difficult to apply to individuals as a concrete conclusion of offensive and defensive abilities. Neilsen, IMO, is much more effective when applied to forward lines or defensive pairings as a whole.
Limited talk regarding how our GM went out and made it happen when no one expected it.
We bash him a lot. Sometimes he's more savvy than we appreciate.
Yes. Yes. I learned to shut my mouth after the Penner deal. If there is 1 thing this organization shows consistently, it is a good read on defensemen. Also on the Minny boards I read that his wife is a leader/organizer among wives. In order to build a team into a family, I think there actually has to be a strong family presence, and not a bunch of frat boys with Peter Pan syndrome.
Could be wrong, but I have yet to see a goal scored against while Schultz is on the ice. Incredibly steady. We haven't had this kind of low event type of defensive play in our own end since Chris Pronger was here. Nothing spectacular, just calmly make the right play and get the puck out.
Nice to see the initial frenzied whining posts gone when this trade originally happened.
Could be wrong, but I have yet to see a goal scored against while Schultz is on the ice. Incredibly steady. We haven't had this kind of low event type of defensive play in our own end since Chris Pronger was here. Nothing spectacular, just calmly make the right play and get the puck out.
Nice to see the initial frenzied whining posts gone when this trade originally happened.
Yup, those posts are almost as scarce as the Gagner "I told you so" posts.
Gone the way of the Cabbage Patch Doll and the Beanie Baby.
He's a great defenseman for us, but you guys are crazy if u think we shouldn't upgrade our d in the offseason! We need to make a huge push for suter or Shea, it just has to happen
