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Injury Talk 5.0: Diaz and Bourque out with concussions

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Old
03-08-2012, 03:22 PM
  #76
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
As pointed out, Spacek was 34 when he signed his contract. The full cap hit only applies to player who signs contract IF they are 35 or older.

Implying that the Blackhawks were not a legit team and the Flyers only got beaten because of goaltending and not because the Blackahwks were equally as good or better up front, defense and in the net.

Markov was skating on one leg in june. It was evident that somethign was wrong with his knee. He couldn't walk by himself.

The Canadiens were not at the ceiling in october, as a matter of fact they had around 6-8M$ of free cap space at that point. We're now sitting on 11M$ of free cap space. It's pretty hard to fit Wisnieski's salary somewhere in that free space, right?
Again, you are wrong on Spacek...35+ contract and negative value coming into the season. This is a fact.

I never said the BH were not legit but they won with a pretty crappy goalie in Niemi. Phillie was close enough that with a solid goalie they would have won. Leighton was not even in the NHL the following year passing through waivers, tells you how had he was as a #1.

The Habs had cap room because Markov was injured, but you can't count on that room for the full year, if he comes back you have to get under the cap or lose every game by default. Getting under the cap is an NHL requirement, which your dream scenarios don't address.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Markov's salary doesn't count, he is on LTIR. Problem solved. Putting Spacek or Gomez in the AHL is obviously an issue right? Gomez has been such the key player for us that we REALLY but REALLLY need him on the line up at all cost....
It counts when he comes back. You can't go out and sign 70 mil worth of players because you have a 6 mil player on LITR for 1-2 months.

In July you have no clue Markov will miss any time let alone 6 months of the season.

Putting Gomez in the AHL was not a realistic move last summer. This summer it will be wayyy more realistic. Last summer Gomez was only 1 year removed from a 59 point season and 14 point playoffs...not a big stretch to think he could bounce back, especially after the way Pacioretty was scoring prior to the Chara hit on his line. Also his salary remaining was like 17.5 mil compared to 10 mil after this season, much easier to sell to your owner, especially considering another crappy year(10 points in
35 games so far).


Last edited by Habsfan18: 03-08-2012 at 03:42 PM. Reason: merge
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03-08-2012, 03:38 PM
  #77
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IF Markov comes back, IF Gomez produces...

Sounds like a virtual basic C++ program more then anything else...

I poitned out numerous ways to get under the salarial cap. Given your answers, it sound more like "As an owner, profit comes before success" point of view. In the sport industry, the end of all means is succes...

You don't build success based on financial accounts (Chelsea this season is a good proof of that in EPL) or on pseudo variables that might never favors you.

The Canadiens makes 50M$ profit in an average years, if they can,t suck up the contract of a few players to make sure they have a better season then dead last... then no wonder the Canadiens are hardly ever better then 6th in the conference.

Let's bathe in averageness, seems like we're good at it.

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03-08-2012, 03:42 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
IF Markov comes back, IF Gomez produces...

Sounds like a virtual basic C++ program more then anything else...

I poitned out numerous ways to get under the salarial cap. Given your answers, it sound more like "As an owner, profit comes before success" point of view. In the sport industry, the end of all means is succes...

You don't build success based on financial accounts (Chelsea this season is a good proof of that in EPL) or on pseudo variables that might never favors you.

The Canadiens makes 50M$ profit in an average years, if they can,t suck up the contract of a few players to make sure they have a better season then dead last... then no wonder the Canadiens are hardly ever better then 6th in the conference.

Let's bathe in averageness, seems like we're good at it.
Yes
that is the primary objective


remove 7.5 millions over your profit
that equals 15%

Investors are MAD

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Old
03-08-2012, 03:45 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
IF Markov comes back, IF Gomez produces...

Sounds like a virtual basic C++ program more then anything else...

I poitned out numerous ways to get under the salarial cap. Given your answers, it sound more like "As an owner, profit comes before success" point of view. In the sport industry, the end of all means is succes...

You don't build success based on financial accounts (Chelsea this season is a good proof of that in EPL) or on pseudo variables that might never favors you.

The Canadiens makes 50M$ profit in an average years, if they can,t suck up the contract of a few players to make sure they have a better season then dead last... then no wonder the Canadiens are hardly ever better then 6th in the conference.

Let's bathe in averageness, seems like we're good at it.
It's easy to come around and play smart alec after the season and say shoulda woulda coulda. Unfortunately teams have to deal with what's in front of them.

You talk about putting Gomez in the AHL like it's a no brainer but to do that without trading for/signing another top 6 center it's very risky to go in with Desharnais or Eller as #2 center.

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03-08-2012, 03:52 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
Yes
that is the primary objective


remove 7.5 millions over your profit
that equals 15%

Investors are MAD
Basic economic, that 7.5M$ is already factored AGAINST profit. What does it matter what you do with it afterwards? Are you getting any advantage on ice with Gomez?

You invest in a pro club for profit or becuase you're a fan of said club and wants it to win?

When Real Madrid offered an outstanding bid of 130M$ for Cristiano Ronaldo (before factoring his contract) Investors must have been pretty mad. Pretty nice use of profit... 130M$ in profit gone... poof! Real Madrid cares mroe about success then profit... they dish outstanding amount of money to make sure they have the best product on the field.

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03-08-2012, 03:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It's easy to come around and play smart alec after the season and say shoulda woulda coulda. Unfortunately teams have to deal with what's in front of them.

You talk about putting Gomez in the AHL like it's a no brainer but to do that without trading for/signing another top 6 center it's very risky to go in with Desharnais or Eller as #2 center.
I said that we should have gone after Hamrlik and Wisniewki before the UFA market opened. Unfortunately they did not deal with the assets they had on hand.

Plekanec > Gomez
White > Gomez
Leblanc > Gomez
Engvist > Gomez
Geoffrion > Gomez

They all cost less and arguably brings the same production. Gomez is not a top 6 centerman. We replaced Saku Koivu for another top 6 centerman, where did it led us? Have you not learnt the mistake already? Anyhow Koivu > Gomez.

By the way, it wouldn't even have been an issue, Markov has yet to play ONE single game this season.... so you would of been able to keep Gomez in the line up.

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03-08-2012, 04:05 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
I said that we should have gone after Hamrlik and Wisniewki before the UFA market opened. Unfortunately they did not deal with the assets they had on hand.

Plekanec > Gomez
White > Gomez
Leblanc > Gomez
Engvist > Gomez
Geoffrion > Gomez

They all cost less and arguably brings the same production. Gomez is not a top 6 centerman. We replaced Saku Koivu for another top 6 centerman, where did it led us? Have you not learnt the mistake already? Anyhow Koivu > Gomez.

By the way, it wouldn't even have been an issue, Markov has yet to play ONE single game this season.... so you would of been able to keep Gomez in the line up.
Wether you deal with them before or during the UFA period, those guys would not have come cheap.


Wisniewski was priced beyond the range of reason for a one dimensional d-man. Even at 4 mil per year for 3-4 years he would be expensive let alone anything close to 32.5 mil over 6. Use your own advice don't make a mistake on top of another, letting Wisniewski go looks like the right move as it did at that time. Especially when you have Markov Subban Diaz Weber Beaulieu on the team or on the way.

So you think going into this year with Ryan White as #2 center would have been a good plan? You make no sense and jump all over the place.

Again, in the context of last May/June you don't know Markov wouldn't have played a single game on March 8th. You are using the future to justify moves made 9 months before.

If you are GM of the Habs today, you don't get to play most of the 2012-2013 season before deciding who you trade/re-sign or go after.

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Old
03-08-2012, 04:16 PM
  #83
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Obviously.. Ryan White has been the #2 centerman this season... You sir like the jump all over the place and sprout stuff out of nothing.... You're also ranking White above Plekanec? And I'm the one making no sense?

I knew Markov wouldn't play. News were reporting how his knee was swollen every time he went on the ice during practices and how he couldn,t put weight on his knee. It was obvious that somethign was wrong and that he wouldn,t come back in the line up. But everyone overlooked those facts and prayed to God that he would be healthy somehow at some point.... Keep praying, Markov can't even put weight on his knee at this point.

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Old
03-08-2012, 04:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Obviously.. Ryan White has been the #2 centerman this season... You sir like the jump all over the place and sprout stuff out of nothing.... You're also ranking White above Plekanec? And I'm the one making no sense?

I knew Markov wouldn't play. News were reporting how his knee was swollen every time he went on the ice during practices and how he couldn,t put weight on his knee. It was obvious that somethign was wrong and that he wouldn,t come back in the line up. But everyone overlooked those facts and prayed to God that he would be healthy somehow at some point.... Keep praying, Markov can't even put weight on his knee at this point.
Where was it reported that his knee was swelled up and he couldn't put weight on it. Please post a link. I can recall news reports of him skating on his own after practise in May and June.

I know the Habs doctors look incompetent in this, but I doubt they are THAT incompetent.

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03-08-2012, 04:24 PM
  #85
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uhm on RDS, they were reporting on a daily basis about how he couldn't walk by himself and how he couldn't skate for more then 5 mintues in a row.

September :
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...ours-enfle.php

The team did everything possible to cover his knee issue... If he his knee was still swollen in september, don,t tell me they couldn,t foresse this back one month ago...


Last edited by Issacar: 03-08-2012 at 04:24 PM. Reason: I even found anotehr source then RDS to confirm it.
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03-08-2012, 04:29 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
uhm on RDS, they were reporting on a daily basis about how he couldn't walk by himself and how he couldn't skate for more then 5 mintues in a row.

September :
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...ours-enfle.php

The team did everything possible to cover his knee issue... If he his knee was still swollen in september, don,t tell me they couldn,t foresse this back one month ago...
That's from October, it doesn't magically help make roster decisions in May/June/July. The swelling became an issue in late August when he cranked up the intensity and length of workouts trying to get in top shape for camp.

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03-08-2012, 04:33 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
That's from October, it doesn't magically help make roster decisions in May/June/July. The swelling became an issue in late August when he cranked up the intensity and length of workouts trying to get in top shape for camp.
Which means thati n july he wasn't even close to the same kind of pre-season workout everyone where at. Which means he wasn't even remotely close to be able to play in october as expected.

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03-09-2012, 08:22 AM
  #88
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Desharnais injury

I wasnt able to catch last nights game. What happened to Desharnais? Did it look serious?

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03-09-2012, 08:23 AM
  #89
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They don't really know and said it was a lower body injury. Tried to come back early in the 2nd but left right away

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03-09-2012, 08:51 AM
  #90
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Looked like he pulled a muscle. He was skating and then he just grabbed his hamstring.

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03-09-2012, 08:53 AM
  #91
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Anybody else on this board who is wishing the injury is a bit more serious than the couple of games they are saying?

I really want to see what Eller can do getting more PP time and better wingers on his line.

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03-09-2012, 10:06 AM
  #92
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Meh.........

I thought there was Markov news. I have to weed through Rene, Scott and Mike stuff.

Where's Markov? When's he gonna be back?

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03-09-2012, 11:49 AM
  #93
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Is it reasonnable to think that Markov could be back for Friday's game in Ottawa? Or there's no chance at all?

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03-09-2012, 11:50 AM
  #94
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Any word on desharnais or how long he will be out for?

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03-09-2012, 12:22 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
Is it reasonnable to think that Markov could be back for Friday's game in Ottawa? Or there's no chance at all?
That would probably be best case scenario, they'll want him skating with contact about 2 weeks, which is about what teams do on long term injuries.

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03-09-2012, 12:29 PM
  #96
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From what I've heard there was a chance Markov could be back early next week but the flu means another setback. Assuming there's no more surprises, Friday would make a lot of sense.

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03-09-2012, 01:54 PM
  #97
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Any word on desharnais or how long he will be out for?
day-to-day...definitely out saturday.

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03-09-2012, 06:00 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Anybody else on this board who is wishing the injury is a bit more serious than the couple of games they are saying?

I really want to see what Eller can do getting more PP time and better wingers on his line.
Exhibit A on what is wrong with these boards

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03-09-2012, 06:03 PM
  #99
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Quote:
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Anybody else on this board who is wishing the injury is a bit more serious than the couple of games they are saying?

I really want to see what Eller can do getting more PP time and better wingers on his line.
I'm secretely wishing for Cunney to stop putting Gomez on the PP.

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03-09-2012, 09:08 PM
  #100
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I'm still waiting for Mr Habs opinion about that

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