I bought it solely because Henderson was fighting for the title, but that's just me.
Same here, that plus Rampage. Pettis-Henderson have unsfinished business for different reasons. Edgar is just getting re-match because Penn got one due to his legend status and Maynard got one cause he wa super close of knocking him out twice. Frankie got lucky.
The Japan numbers seem simple to me, and they have very little to do with Edgar. You have Rampage who is still a good draw vs a former TUF champ in Bader. You also have the appeal in people checking out the 'scene' in Japan. You have a super deep card. Then yeah, you have a title fight. But that title fight could've been me vs Henderson and it would've drawn very similar, IMO.
The depth of a card rarely makes much of a difference to anyone but hardcore fans who for the most part buy most PPVs anyway. The casuals are what pushes a PPV above the basement level. Rampage is a draw, but this was hardly a match up people were excited about. Also, look at the numbers Rampage put up against Hamil in a North American PPV. Look at the numbers he put up against the much hyped John Jones. Rampage by himself isn't that big of a draw, at least not when he's fighting someone other than Rashad. People mostly tune in for the main event in any case, unless a a co-main has a lot of hype behind it, and Rampage/Bader most certainly did not. Again, look at what Anderson did in Brazil. Why would people want to check out the dead "scene" in Japan, and not the MMA explosion in Brazil?
I think people aren't putting into perspective how tremendous of a PPV number this is for an international card featuring lighter weight guys, or are assigning the success to factors that are largely irrelevant. Heck, had this card been in N. America, it may have matched Jones-Shogun. In any case, we shall find out what the truth is. I predict Edgar/Henderson (in Calgary I hope) outdoes 400K in PPV buys no matter how deep the card is, or who is coheadlining.
I wouldn't put much stock in that. Historically, most non-North American PPV have been tape delayed, ie: the majority of the events that have taken place in the UK and Europe. Even the Abu Dhabi card was tape delayed. UFC Japan was also a stacked card, and it still only pulled average numbers. Rio was a bit disappointing, although it brought in 330K not "sub 300K", but I remember reading that the power outrages due to Hurrican Irene had a big affect on that.
Wow, maybe they could add Werdum vs somebody like Mitrione or Hunt and have an all-out heavyweight card, it would be really awesome!
Werdum vs Mitrione doesn't make sense at all, but it will be interesting to see what they do next for both of these guys. Mitrione has been out for awhile.
To get a good idea of Edgar's drawing potential, UFC 136 is a good example. The worst purchased UFC PPV of the past 3 years for one of the most anticipated fights of the year. 2nd worst? Edgar/Maynard II....
Yes it was live, at like 10am/1pm. How many people order UFC PPV's in the morning or middle of the afternoon?
Those that crave live sports and are hardcore MMA fans would. The rest would order in the evening. While the event may have done better if it was live at night, I doubt it would have made much of a difference--people had a choice either to prioritize watching the fight live or watching it at the usual time. Only those who demanded that the event be both live and at the same time would have passed. I'm sure most hardcores watched in the afternoon if they could, in the evening in they couldn't, and most casuals probably didn't even know it was tape delayed. It doesn't really matter anyway. The point is the event had two big names in title fights, and thus not comparable to UFC Japan. Even if the event would have done 800K live, it's still not comparable.
These numbers are not official in any way, shape or form, so nitpicking seems like a waste of time to me. Dave Meltzer talks to various sources then makes a rough estimate. Whether the event was 290K or 330K is irrelevant--Edgar in Japan beat it handily. Of course hurricane Irene is an important factor, but the UFC depends a lot on the west coast and Canada for PPV buys. Even if you are generous and give UFC Brazil an extra 100K, Edgar in Japan still compares favorably. The point isn't that Edgar is a better draw than Silva, the point is he is becoming a draw, and Henderson and Pettis are far from that level.
Quote:
To get a good idea of Edgar's drawing potential, UFC 136 is a good example. The worst purchased UFC PPV of the past 3 years for one of the most anticipated fights of the year. 2nd worst? Edgar/Maynard II....
Of course, last year in general was the worst PPV year in a while, while the previous two years set records. As a point of comparison, all three of Jon Jones' PPVs did worse than previous PPVs featuring his opponents in title matches (compare Jones/Shogun or Jones/Machida to the two Machida/Shogun matches for example, or look at Rampages' previous title fights). Maybe you think Jones is a poor draw that actually has a net negative effect on PPV buys, since his opponents seem to do better without him. Or maybe 2011 saw a huge downturn in PPV buys.
More specifically, Edgar/Maynard II was on New Year's day. I went out that night and all the bars were empty. I've never seen a Saturday where the night life was completely dead like that, even in a blizzard, but hangovers put a dent in to partying I guess. I doubt many people were having house parties to watch the event either. Edgar Maynard III was a surprisingly bad number, but I think we will look back at that as the zenith of UFC PPV downturn, because of the general downturn in interest in UFC PPVs but also because of extreme card congestion (8 PPVs in 5 months, and the Fox card was there as well soaking up marketing resources) and Spike's ending their promotion of UFC events. The mere fact that Edgar/Maynard III with Aldo co-headlining against Florian in N. America did worse than Aldo versus Mendes by itself in Brazil raises questions. Also, why did Edgar/Maynard III do worse than Edgar/Maynard II, when we are talking about the exact two fighters, but with 10X more hype the third time and without the issue of a PPV being on New Year's day?
This is all irrelevant, however. The point I was making is not that Edgar has historically been a great draw. The point is that he has headlined many PPVs now, against high profile opponents (Penn x 2) and while having exciting fights (Maynard x 2), and that Japan looks like it was finally time he started to make an impact on the PPV meter.
It would have been interesting to see how Maynard/Edgar II would have done on virtually any other day of the year, or how Maynard/Edgar III would have done if the overall PPV landscape was better, but it doesn't matter now as Edgar is becoming a draw. Again, we can argue forever because so many variables go in to the resultant PPV number, but the bottom line is that Edgar as a lightweight champion in an international PPV card put up a surprisingly good number. The question is whether this number was an aberration for Edgar, whether it was an improvement, or whether his previous two PPV events were aberrations. I think it was a combination of the latter two, you think it was the former. The answer will come when Henderson fights Edgar a second time--like I said, expect over 400K.
Interesting article by Josh Gross. Edgar's twitter followers doubled in the week following UFC Japan. He has also been used more in general UFC promotion. None of that necessarily translates into PPV buys, but it does suggest a tipping point in both the fan response to him and the UFC's marketing of him.
The point isn't that Edgar is a better draw than Silva, the point is he is becoming a draw, and Henderson and Pettis are far from that level.
I don't disagree with that at all, of those three I would agree that Edgar is the biggest draw as of right now. I just don't think that UFC Japan selling 375K PPV is all that impressive nor do I think the biggest reason for people purchasing that event was because Edgar was headlining. I think it had a lot more to do with the fact that it was a stacked card, with other big names involved, and had 7 fights on the card.
In the end, I don't think we really disagree on the big picture here, just some small things really.
Last edited by Peter Griffin: 03-08-2012 at 08:54 PM.
I don't disagree with that at all, of those three I would agree that Edgar is the biggest draw as of right now. I just don't think that UFC Japan selling 375K PPV is all that impressive nor do I think the biggest reason for people purchasing that event was because Edgar was headlining. I think it had a lot more to do with the fact that it was a stacked card, with other big names involved, and had 7 fights on the card.
In the end, I don't think we really disagree on the big picture here, just some small things really.
I can't wait for this card. There's another HW fight on the card between Gonzaga and Del Rosario that I'm really looking forward to as well.
Another bout that'll likely be added to the card is Dunham/Barboza. Can't wait for that one too. They might add one more main card fight or just go with one of Hardy/Ludwig, Miller/Dolloway or Gonzaga/Del Rosario as the 5th main card fight.
Another fight i'm looking forward to is Kingsbury vs Glover Teixeira who hasn't lost in nearly 7 years, winning 15 in a row including 5 wins over ex-UFC fighters. Even though he's been around for years I've never actually seen him fight so I'm not sure how good he really is. He sounds intriguing though being a BJJ BB and well-known grappler while having won most of his fights by KO/TKO.
Anyone else find the UFC's scheduling kind of annoying or for lack of a better word, stupid?
We get an event almost every week for two months and now there's nothing for six weeks. I'm not really complaining but just find it odd that they wouldn't spread the events out more.
Anyone else find the UFC's scheduling kind of annoying or for lack of a better word, stupid?
We get an event almost every week for two months and now there's nothing for six weeks. I'm not really complaining but just find it odd that they wouldn't spread the events out more.
Very simple reason - guys (non-fighters) need vacations. They have a huge staff and are working non-stop and they use these breaks so people can have time off. That's also why they always have that summer break, too.
Very simple reason - guys (non-fighters) need vacations. They have a huge staff and are working non-stop and they use these breaks so people can have time off. That's also why they always have that summer break, too.
Plus on Saturday evenings in March the UFC would have to compete with the NCAAB Conference tournaments and March Madness itself (4 consecutive weeks), which would draw away a lot of viewers, especially the young males the UFC relies upon for PPV buys.
I still find it annoying. They must use alternates for UFC Fight Nights, etc. Or couldn't they at least have scheduled a Strikeforce in here now? They could've delayed the previous SF rather than having back to back nights with FX. Sure there's a lot of different factors but come on.
Very simple reason - guys (non-fighters) need vacations. They have a huge staff and are working non-stop and they use these breaks so people can have time off. That's also why they always have that summer break, too.
Ah, I didn't think about that whatsoever. Makes sense though.
I realize all of the top heavyweights already have fights, but this seems like a pretty big mismatch. I would've preferred to see Werdum fight the winner of Barnett-Cormier, and have Russow fight Hunt.
I like the Werdum/Russow fight. Russow keeps winning fights, albeit in very boring fashion against average competition. He won't be able to lie on Werdum for 15 minutes. This could be an ugly fight and maybe not fun to watch, but its time to see where Russow is at. Werdum gets another chance to beat up a fat guy.
I like the Werdum/Russow fight. Russow keeps winning fights, albeit in very boring fashion against average competition. He won't be able to lie on Werdum for 15 minutes. This could be an ugly fight and maybe not fun to watch, but its time to see where Russow is at. Werdum gets another chance to beat up a fat guy.
I honestly think that after the way Werdum handled Nelson, he'll ragdoll Russow and end it very fast. I haven't been very impressed by Russow very much.
