With pick #639 Inglewood selects a hardworking defensive LW/C with excellent hockey smarts and endurance. A two-time Stanley Cup winner, Murdoch was 2nd in playoff scoring on his 1933 Cup run, and led the playoffs in assists.
The NHL's original Iron Man:
Murray Murdoch
Nice pick. Shocked he was still available. Consistent two position player with reliable offence and very good defence and strong longevity.
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Yeah I don't think the guy is the most physical player in the world or anything. Like I said, I just need a guy who can hit enough to keep people away from Patrick, and I think Perry's combined style of physical play and agitation will do that.
All I expect of Perry is somewhere in the neighborhood of (I know it's kind of a faulty stat when used this way but just for statistical reference) 80-100 hits and the ability to agitate and stand up for Patrick (the reason I keep mentioning Patrick is because the other member of this line, Dick Irvin, shouldn't really have an issue as I've seen him described as tough quite a few places). So nothing crazy, just enough to keep people honest.
Something interesting I dug up... all the usual caveats apply. But this is a list of all players in the past 35 years who finished top-10 in Selke voting four or more times.
Only RW on this list - Jari Kurri (Lehtinen played RW too, but weren't his best years as Modano and Hull's LW?)
LWs on the list: Gainey,, Lehtinen, Ramsay, Zetterberg (or should we call him a C?), Erixon, Tikkanen
Yeah, I'm beating the dead Erixon horse here. But I should point out two things:
- Erixon required the fewest career GP to make this list, by a wide margin.
- Erixon required the fewest points in a season to make this list, by an even wider margin.
Defensively, it's arguable that Erixon is one of the top-15 LWs of all-time (top-6 of the last 35 years, then throw in pre-selke players). Of course, many players exceed his overall value by being better scorers and having much better durability. But if you want a LW to play a strictly defensive game, for the last 200 picks you probably couldn't do better than Erixon.
Erixon only had 1 top 5 finish for the Selke! (3rd)
One of the top 6 defensive LWs of the last 35 years based off his 6th-10th place finishes, where only a small minority of writers even had him on the ballot in any given season?
Vanbiesbrouck played 882 regular season games at an average of 7 sv% points above the league average. This included time at the age of 34+ where he was no longer very good, and if you cut him off at 1997, he was 11 sv% points over the average in 657 games.
Right now, Luongo has played 719 games at an average of 11 sv% points over the average.
When the usual workload for a starting goalie from 1982-1993 is considered and adjusted, Beezer has the better regular season resume, at least by this metric. Though it is not by much. Luongo is just one more of his usually strong regular seasons away from having a better showing here.
In the playoffs:
Beezer played 71 playoff games at 11 sv% points above the league average.
Luongo has 59 playoff games played at an average of 2 sv% points above the average. Which is what I would have predicted seeing as he has ranged from outstanding to brutal.
Beezer was, of course, the biggest reason for his appearance in the finals. Luongo just “did his part” to get there.
I see this as playing at a higher level, and more importantly, a more consistent level, over more games.
Luongo, with an excellent run to the finals, without the horrible games peppered within, could surpass Beezer’s playoff resume this year.
Luongo has been 2nd and 6th in Hart voting. Beezer 3rd and 5th.
Luongo has been 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th in vezina voting, looking at seasons with 4+ total votes. Beezer has been 1st, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 6th.
Luongo has earned 76 total vezina votes. Beezer has earned an adjusted 78 when adjusted to 30 teams (adjusted because the number of votes available rises with the number of GMs voting)
Dismissing Beezer due to era would be premature. Luongo is thriving in an era that has lacked, aside from Brodeur, consistent top-end competition for him. That sounds like Beezer in the 80s, but it should be noted that he was the runaway Vezina winner in 1994 if not for a ridiculously dominant Hasek season (which you could say is offset by the combination of 2004 and 2007, when some say Luongo should have won over Brodeur)
Based on all of this it really appears Luongo is on the cusp of surpassing Beezer and thus deserving higher selection, but he’s not quite there.
Erixon only had 1 top 5 finish for the Selke! (3rd)
One of the top 6 defensive LWs of the last 35 years based off his 6th-10th place finishes, where only a small minority of writers even had him on the ballot in any given season?
You're off your bloody rocker
there were a bunch of LWs who were on the majority of ballots consistently?
Then surely they'd be ahead of him on this list.
Oh, there they are, Gainey, Lehtinen and Ramsay.... who else?
edit: This is actually hilarious. If Erixon was a consistent 40-50 point guy you would never be as condescending as to tell me "you're off your bloody rocker" when the opposite should be the case. His voting record despite a lack of points is more impressive, not less. just come clean and admit your problem with him is strictly about offense.
edit again: there have been years where no one was on the majority of ballots, considering they're subjectively naming 3 players from a pool of 150 realistically eligible. There have also been years where the winner was the only player named on a majority of the ballots. So do you have a point here?
5x Top 10 Jack Adams Voting (1, 2, 7, 8, 10)
14th all-time in Regular Season coaching wins
14th all-time in Playoff coaching wins
Most wins with coaching one team, all time
.564 career winning percentage in regular season & playoffs
President's Trophy Winner, 2006-07
Assistant Coach of 2010 Canadian Olympic Gold Medal winning team
Quote:
In only his second season as head coach, Ruff led the 1998-99 Sabres to their first Stanley Cup Finals appearance in 24 years and established himself as one of the league’s top coaches. He also achieved a club record that season for the most wins (14) in one playoff year. In the process, Ruff became only the third head coach under the present Stanley Cup Playoff format to lead his team to the Conference Finals in each of his first two seasons.
During the 2006-07, the Sabres’ had their finest year under Ruff statistically when the team won a franchise-record 53 games and captured the first Presidents’ Trophy in club history, while leading both the Northeast Division and Eastern Conference from wire-to-wire. This was also the first time in franchise history they’ve posted back-to-back 50-win seasons. Buffalo returned to the Eastern Conference Finals for the second consecutive season, and the fourth time under Ruff’s guidance. On April 5, 2007, a 5-4 Buffalo victory over Ottawa made him the 31st coach in NHL history to record 300 career wins, and the 16th in NHL history to reach the milestone with the same team.
Most hockey experts suggest that an NHL coach must be a disciplinarian or a "players' coach". Lindy Ruff was a rare example of a bench boss who mastered both roles.
After Ruff ended his playing career, one of his old coaches called for his help. When former Sabres and Rangers coach Roger Neilson was hired as the first coach of the Florida Panthers, Ruff was asked to join the expansion franchise as an assistant. Ruff played a vital role in instilling an overachieving attitude in Florida that led the Panthers to the Stanley Cup finals in 1996 and led Ruff to a head coaching position in Buffalo.
As a coach, Ruff built an almost impenetrable defensive team, backstopped by all world goaltender Dominik Hasek, with an insatiable work ethic and accountability. With the unique experience of playing both forward and defense at the NHL level, Ruff could relate to all the players on his roster. The Sabres quickly responded to Ruff and he became the second coach ever to lead his team to the Conference finals in each of his first two seasons behind an NHL bench, including a trip to the Stanley Cup finals in 1999 that ended with Brett Hull's controversial overtime goal.
Despite the departure of Hasek and Michael Peca in the summer of 2001, Ruff continued to forge the foundations of a young Buffalo team.
Lindy got a chance to run his own bench at the NHL level - despite having no head coaching experience - in 1997. It was a nice homecoming for Lindy, as the Buffalo Sabres offered Lindy their head coaching job. Lindy was the perfect choice in Buffalo - a long time ex Sabre who was so well liked in the community and who could continue to instill the lunch bucket, hard work attitude that so fitted the Sabres team. It was an excellent choice and Lindy, unlike many coaches in the NHL today, should be able to stay with the Sabres for some time with the success he's had.
The NHL's longest serving current head coach, Lindy Ruff of the Buffalo Sabres, edged out Peter Laviolette 155-154 in the closest Jack Adams Award voting since the trophy was first awarded in 1974. Ruff was the first Sabres coach to win the award since Ted Nolan in 1997. He led his club to a 25-point improvement over 2003-04 and set new team records for both victories (52) and points (110). The hard-working Sabres played an exciting, fast-paced brand of hockey, finishing in the top ten in team goals against (2.85) and goals scored (3.37). Buffalo's goal total of 281 was also the most scored by the club since 1994 and was achieved without placing a player among the league's top 60 scorers.
there were a bunch of LWs who were on the majority of ballots consistently?
Then surely they'd be ahead of him on this list.
Oh, there they are, Gainey, Lehtinen and Ramsay.... who else?
edit: This is actually hilarious. If Erixon was a consistent 40-50 point guy you would never be as condescending as to tell me "you're off your bloody rocker" when the opposite should be the case. His voting record despite a lack of points is more impressive, not less. just come clean and admit your problem with him is strictly about offense.
Tikkanen with four top 3s should be ahead as well. Much more impressive than a single third with some more 6-10s.
there were a bunch of LWs who were on the majority of ballots consistently?
Then surely they'd be ahead of him on this list.
Oh, there they are, Gainey, Lehtinen and Ramsay.... who else?
edit: This is actually hilarious. If Erixon was a consistent 40-50 point guy you would never be as condescending as to tell me "you're off your bloody rocker" when the opposite should be the case. His voting record despite a lack of points is more impressive, not less. just come clean and admit your problem with him is strictly about offense.
edit again: there have been years where no one was on the majority of ballots, considering they're subjectively naming 3 players from a pool of 150 realistically eligible. There have also been years where the winner was the only player named on a majority of the ballots. So do you have a point here?
Yes, there are years where nobody got a majority of votes for the Selke. Don't you think that's a problem with being a slave to Selke Top 10s in determining a player's defensive value?
Erixon barely broke 25% of the winner's voting points the year he finished third for the trophy. And that was his best finish.
Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-09-2012 at 12:41 PM.
Tikkanen with four top 3s should be ahead as well. Much more impressive than a single third with some more 6-10s.
Agreed. I'm not even sure a 9th place finish for the Selke is any better than 20th. In my view, both jus show that you were among the top defensive forwards in the league that year. Once you get past the finalists, the votes become awfully spread out
Yes, there are years where nobody got a majority of votes for the Selke. Don't you think that's a problem with being a slave to Selke Top 10s in determining a player's defensive value?
"usual caveats apply"
(the only thing is, they apply to him less than others, since the selke is so reputation-based and reputations come from scoring points and playing full seasons)
Quote:
Erixon barely broke 25% of the winner's points the year he finished third for the trophy. And that was his best finish.
voting points are a joke. if points were calculated correctly, yes he would have had multiple seasons above 25%.
Agreed. I'm not even sure a 9th place finish for the Selke is any better than 20th. In my view, both jus show that you were among the top defensive forwards in the league that year. Once you get past the finalists, the votes become awfully spread out
FFS, clearly the players were listed by number of appearances. No comments on Datsyuk and his three wins sitting so low??
show me a 20th-place selke finish where a player got five top-3 votes or even a 1st place vote (he had two when he was 9th)
Many players had a finish in the 9th range once or even twice. That could be brushed off the way you are trying to above. The data I showed, indicates that he earned more recognition for the award than almost any other LW in 35 years.
Rolston's penalty killing has gotten him a decent Selke record:
Selke voting – 10th(1999), 5th(2002), 10th(2003), 14th(2004), 10th(2006), 16th(2007)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe
I'm not even sure a 9th place finish for the Selke is any better than 20th. In my view, both jus show that you were among the top defensive forwards in the league that year. Once you get past the finalists, the votes become awfully spread out
why even mention it if it is that insignificant? Never mind how much you've valued even sparser selke voting in past MLDs and AAAs...
I'll repeat myself then - I view lower Selke vote totals like that as evidence that a handful of writers thought the plyayer deserved recognition - or that he was among the top defensive players in the league that given year.
And no, I don't think Rolston's 10th is necessarily better than his 15th, when we are dealing with such small vote numbers. (before looking at how many votes he got).
Anyway, I shouldn't have jumped down your throat when you said Erixon is arguably the 6th best defensive LW of the time frame. So sorry for my tone. I just think there are a lot of players you can make that argument for once you get past Gainey, Ramsay, Marcotte (who you didn't look at), Tikkanen, and Lehtinen.
All right, as my first spare (might use him in the lineup, we'll see how things shake out), I'm selecting Corb Denneny, F. Dreakmur's bio from about a year and a half ago is here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=118
It paints him as a versatile player capable of playing all forward positions with skill and speed. Iain Fyffe has been doing a research study on who should and shouldn't be in the HHOF over on his Hockey Historysis site, and he finds Denneny as meritorious based on:
Quote:
Corb Denneny, lesser-known than his Hall-of-Fame brother Cy, had a 19-year senior/professional career. Though never the best centre in his league, his consistency and longevity are what earns him Hall-of-Fame-level merit here. Being just below the very best for an extended period of time is quite remarkable in itself.
There are 21 players on the list, all of whom have been drafted except one, and that player didn't play his first pro game til the age of 27.
Iain's meritorious players project is really interesting, but it puts far to much emphasis on longevity for my liking
Yeah I mean it's by no means a way of saying: "oh Corb Denneny was the 19th best player of the 1910s and 20s because he scores so high on such and such a list," but its just a way to show he's a valuable player who was consistently solid throughout his 19 year career who was probably overshadowed by his brother. The reason more than any that I picked him is that I really like having versatile spares.
