HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Rink
The Rink For the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.

P90X vs Insanity

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-09-2012, 04:33 PM
  #26
neksys
Registered User
 
neksys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
so, this hypothetical synthetic cohort "everyone" doesn't have the patience to do 3 sets of 3 exercises 3 times a week, yet somehow have the determination to work through 90 minutes of random exercises 6 days a week? gmafb. .
Yes. Some people do not have the motivation required for a self-directed program.
Quote:
every program has a dropout rate. the fact that p90x has sold millions of copies, yet i hardly see anyone on the street who looks like they might be hiding a p90x body under their clothes, pretty much means the dropout rate of p90x is extraordinarily high. i would blame it on the fact that it has TOO MANY redundant exercises that prevents the participants to focus and properly load a since exercise like the squat. but in general the program is ALSO simply too hard to adhere to.
This is one very long string of logical fallacies.

No idea what your bias against P90X stems from but its clear that you aren't going to be swayed in your opinion so I'm done.

neksys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 04:56 PM
  #27
newfr4u
Registered User
 
newfr4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neksys View Post
This is not consistent with any of the research on this. The American College of Sports Medicine disagrees with you, anyways.

You're right that strength training is great for deconditioned people since they will see improvements across all four goals (strength, hypertrophy, muscular power and muscular endurance).

Its a good thing, then, that P90X spends about 70% of the time focusing on strength exercises, 20% on cardio and the rest a mix of flexibility and balance.

Anyways, you have your opinion - that deadlifts and squats are superior to a more balanced program for the average person. I think you're wrong and I don't believe that your reasons are supported by the clinical evidence, but you are totally missing the point:

Some people need the structure and motivation a program like P90X provides. Anything that gets people lifting weights and pumping their heart every day for 3 months will get them in better shape - period. To that end, P90X is a great program, even if you are right and the results aren't as good at the end.
the article you cite is a complete joke. they separate beginners from intermediates depending on how long they've performed any resistance training, don't mention anything about strength levels. for example, a former bodybuilder who hasn't lifted in "several years" would be a novice. L.O.L.

you seem to illogically believe that p90x does not spend 70% on strength training. maybe it intends to, but does it poorly.

motivation and structure are different things. if people's motivation was the problem, i DOUBT they will find it alone in their apartments watching their tv.

i am going to assume that by structure, you mean the programming. say, p90x has several sets of 3-4 different squat variants in their legs segments, most done with dumbells and/or bodyweight. we've covered this in other threads, but there is very little strength benefit to doing almost a hundred reps at very low weight, rather than doing 3 sets of 5 reps at your 5-rep max. if you'd like a citation, you can check out the Starting Strength book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neksys View Post
This is one very long string of logical fallacies.

No idea what your bias against P90X stems from but its clear that you aren't going to be swayed in your opinion so I'm done.
it's not uncommon to see many people try p90x and never actually complete or progress to the end. i know close to a hundred people who tried it (including myself), and i know of only one who finished it (not me) and/or saw significant benefits 90 days after they stopped. if you finished it, you would be the second. those are just not good numbers when evaluating a fitness routine.

newfr4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 05:22 PM
  #28
Steelhead16
Registered User
 
Steelhead16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boise, ID
Country: United States
Posts: 1,542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
the article you cite is a complete joke. they separate beginners from intermediates depending on how long they've performed any resistance training, don't mention anything about strength levels. for example, a former bodybuilder who hasn't lifted in "several years" would be a novice. L.O.L.

you seem to illogically believe that p90x does not spend 70% on strength training. maybe it intends to, but does it poorly.

motivation and structure are different things. if people's motivation was the problem, i DOUBT they will find it alone in their apartments watching their tv.

i am going to assume that by structure, you mean the programming. say, p90x has several sets of 3-4 different squat variants in their legs segments, most done with dumbells and/or bodyweight. we've covered this in other threads, but there is very little strength benefit to doing almost a hundred reps at very low weight, rather than doing 3 sets of 5 reps at your 5-rep max. if you'd like a citation, you can check out the Starting Strength book.



it's not uncommon to see many people try p90x and never actually complete or progress to the end. i know close to a hundred people who tried it (including myself), and i know of only one who finished it (not me) and/or saw significant benefits 90 days after they stopped. if you finished it, you would be the second. those are just not good numbers when evaluating a fitness routine.
I'm sure the OP and everyone else who commented in here are not elite athletes. They want to build some amount of strength and endurance to get better prepared for beer league hockey. Nobody in beer leagues needs to be maxing out their squats and building tree trunk legs. Both programs can help most people in here.

When I played Junior I was 6'2" 215 and a good amount of that was in my legs. Now 25 years later I could never carry that weight anymore and am down to 185. Most of the weight loss was in my legs. I'm not pushing guys out of the crease or fighting for the puck in the corners anymore so I don't need to be at an elite level anymore. I just wanted something that gave me new exercises and made me more fit. Mission accomplished.

Steelhead16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 05:33 PM
  #29
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
I'm sure the OP and everyone else who commented in here are not elite athletes. They want to build some amount of strength and endurance to get better prepared for beer league hockey. Nobody in beer leagues needs to be maxing out their squats and building tree trunk legs. Both programs can help most people in here.

When I played Junior I was 6'2" 215 and a good amount of that was in my legs. Now 25 years later I could never carry that weight anymore and am down to 185. Most of the weight loss was in my legs. I'm not pushing guys out of the crease or fighting for the puck in the corners anymore so I don't need to be at an elite level anymore. I just wanted something that gave me new exercises and made me more fit. Mission accomplished.
Exactly. Hockey isn't very fun when you're gassed after 1, 60> second shift... when you can play at a high level for at least 1 game it suddenly becomes much more enjoyable.

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 05:41 PM
  #30
newfr4u
Registered User
 
newfr4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
I'm sure the OP and everyone else who commented in here are not elite athletes. They want to build some amount of strength and endurance to get better prepared for beer league hockey. Nobody in beer leagues needs to be maxing out their squats and building tree trunk legs. Both programs can help most people in here.

When I played Junior I was 6'2" 215 and a good amount of that was in my legs. Now 25 years later I could never carry that weight anymore and am down to 185. Most of the weight loss was in my legs. I'm not pushing guys out of the crease or fighting for the puck in the corners anymore so I don't need to be at an elite level anymore. I just wanted something that gave me new exercises and made me more fit. Mission accomplished.
the fact that nobody in beer leagues is an elite athlete, is PRECISELY why they need greater levels of strength first. most of them are simply beginners when they put the bar on their shoulders.

maxing out the squats is relative to your current strength, not relative to what you were lifting 25 years ago.

newfr4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 05:43 PM
  #31
newfr4u
Registered User
 
newfr4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Exactly. Hockey isn't very fun when you're gassed after 1, 60> second shift... when you can play at a high level for at least 1 game it suddenly becomes much more enjoyable.
you think you can get there with p90x? ok, good luck.

newfr4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 06:13 PM
  #32
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
you think you can get there with p90x? ok, good luck.
You don't think doing P90x or Insanity drastically improves your conditioning? Ok...

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 06:25 PM
  #33
neksys
Registered User
 
neksys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
the article you cite is a complete joke.
I stopped reading after this.

The American College of Sports Medicine is the largest sports medicine and exercise science organization in the world.

The ACSM is made up of more than 40,000 scientists, researchers, scholars and professionals.

The article I cited is the ACSM's current position on resistance training.

The ACSM (and the "complete joke" article I cited) > your opinion.

neksys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 07:27 PM
  #34
newfr4u
Registered User
 
newfr4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neksys View Post
I stopped reading after this.

The American College of Sports Medicine is the largest sports medicine and exercise science organization in the world.

The ACSM is made up of more than 40,000 scientists, researchers, scholars and professionals.

The article I cited is the ACSM's current position on resistance training.

The ACSM (and the "complete joke" article I cited) > your opinion.
if you feel that i am stating my opinion, you are wrong. i do nothing but regurgitate the works of giants who actually work and train athletes.

if you feel that ACSM is somehow infallible, you'll be rather disappointed. why don't you address my problem with the first three sentences of its abstract?

newfr4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2012, 07:30 PM
  #35
newfr4u
Registered User
 
newfr4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
You don't think doing P90x or Insanity drastically improves your conditioning? Ok...
oh it will, but it will be inferior to the methods i describe.

newfr4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 12:54 AM
  #36
zetterberg40
Registered User
 
zetterberg40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 21,186
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to zetterberg40
i just started p90x and it worked the **** out of me...

id do it.. youll lose weight, promise...

if you don't.. your diet is a joke..

zetterberg40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 02:18 AM
  #37
neksys
Registered User
 
neksys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
if you feel that i am stating my opinion, you are wrong. i do nothing but regurgitate the works of giants who actually work and train athletes.

if you feel that ACSM is somehow infallible, you'll be rather disappointed. why don't you address my problem with the first three sentences of its abstract?
I don't have to. I will take the word of the American College of Sports Medicine over "anonymous guy on the Internet who says he has second information from guys that train guys" any day of the week.

neksys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 08:55 AM
  #38
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,431
vCash: 500
Just to expand on my experiences a bit,

With P90X, there was severe burnout on my part after about a month. Didn't lose any weight, actually gained some, but not all muscle as clothes weren't fitting right. Didn't notice much difference in hockey.

With squats and deadlifts, it was more interesting for me and much less time commitment. Having the focused goals of just increasing poundage is much better suited for me than just completing a workout video. Then again I'm the kind of guy who likes RPG games because of leveling and watching the guy get more powerful. I also have noticed a big change in hockey, my speed, strength, and endurance has improved quite a bit. Also lost 5 pounds of fat and added 3 pounds of muscle and lost 1.5" off the waist without any change in diet over a couple months.

That's my experience as a weaker overweight schlub.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2012, 09:35 AM
  #39
Sasso09
Registered User
 
Sasso09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
I've been a competitive power lifter for 6 years now, thinking about trying one of these programs.. Recently I've been obsessed with getting my resting heart rate in the 40's, I started a 77 and I'm now at 61 and I've been as low as 56. I really don't want to sacriifice muscle so by reading comments I believe px90 is the better option. Currently I lift 3 to 4 x a week, squat bench and dead with HIIT cardio

Sasso09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2012, 03:27 AM
  #40
Loyal2TheOil
Registered User
 
Loyal2TheOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 205
vCash: 500
I've tried p90 but not insanity. I would have to agree with most of the people here is that it's very easy to get bored of unless you are super committed. The program is very well designed and it's hard for your body to habituate since you are constantly shocking it with new exercises. I really like the plyometrics and surprisingly the yoga as well.

I prefer just going to the gym. I'm not a person who can motivate myself to workout at home. Home is home, it's where I relax. Everything about the gym is such a routine it just motivates me. Anyways to get back on topic. What worked the best for me was to do full body workouts and lift heavy weights, 5/6 sets 4-6 reps. If youre someone that cant lift heavy weights you could try something like (50% set 1, 60% set 2, 70% set 3, 80% set 4, 90% set 5, and 100% set 6). Then the following week ideally your 50% becomes a heavier weight. I can't stress how important it is to rest and to eat properly. For me I was consuming 2500-3000 calories a day and had a 40% carbs, 40% protein, 20% fat diet. The idea here is you are building muscle (aka the fat burning engine). Then after about 8-12 weeks of this training, you switch to the cutting phase and incorporate heavy amounts of cardio (any high intensity interval training is always really good for guys who play hockey or football) and lifting lighter weights, 4 sets 8-12 reps.

In the muscle building phase make sure you do as many full body exercises so get rid of the bicep curls, the tricep pulldowns, and focus on deadlifts, squats, and bench 3 times a week with 1 day of rest in between. then in the cutting phase, you would switch over to the individual muscle exercises to tone them. Everyone is different so see what works the best for you, I have a friend who lost 60 pounds off the P90 and it was something I couldnt keep up with. goodluck!

Loyal2TheOil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2012, 12:41 PM
  #41
Twist and Shout
Registered User
 
Twist and Shout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlWinslow View Post
Tried them both.

I prefer Insanity.

I actually HATE that Tony Horton guy who does P90X. He is so damn irritating, ruins the workout for me.
Weird, that's one of the reasons I enjoy P90X. Tony is hilarious!

Twist and Shout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2012, 01:38 PM
  #42
newfr4u
Registered User
 
newfr4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neksys View Post
I don't have to. I will take the word of the American College of Sports Medicine over "anonymous guy on the Internet who says he has second information from guys that train guys" any day of the week.
"guys that train guys" are Mark Rippetoe, Glenn Pendlay, etc. you can read their books for free and, in fact, communicate with them directly. needless to say, they are not too thrilled with ACSM or many other organizations that ignores basic training principles and definitions. for example, what I pointed out in the abstract of the article you cited.

newfr4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2012, 01:40 PM
  #43
newfr4u
Registered User
 
newfr4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
I've been a competitive power lifter for 6 years now, thinking about trying one of these programs.. Recently I've been obsessed with getting my resting heart rate in the 40's, I started a 77 and I'm now at 61 and I've been as low as 56. I really don't want to sacriifice muscle so by reading comments I believe px90 is the better option. Currently I lift 3 to 4 x a week, squat bench and dead with HIIT cardio
i am guessing this would probably work, but your strength levels as a competitive power lifter are already top percentile. you may be a good candidate for p90x while the rest of us aren't.

newfr4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2012, 04:31 PM
  #44
sanityplease
Registered User
 
sanityplease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 754
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
"guys that train guys" are Mark Rippetoe, Glenn Pendlay, etc. you can read their books for free and, in fact, communicate with them directly. needless to say, they are not too thrilled with ACSM or many other organizations that ignores basic training principles and definitions. for example, what I pointed out in the abstract of the article you cited.
The Don Cherry of the lifting world (Riptoe) &

this guy>


sanityplease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2012, 04:45 PM
  #45
newfr4u
Registered User
 
newfr4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanityplease View Post
The Don Cherry of the lifting world (Riptoe) &

this guy>

hahaha. legit lol'ed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe

newfr4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2012, 04:52 PM
  #46
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,431
vCash: 500
Lift for strength, diet for weight loss. Rippetoe = strength.

And he wasn't too bad back in his day:


Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2012, 12:11 PM
  #47
Twist and Shout
Registered User
 
Twist and Shout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,264
vCash: 500
Haha, so which one of you is this guy?


Twist and Shout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2012, 09:43 PM
  #48
Maupin Fan
Hot Air
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 473
vCash: 500
What in the hell is that nonsense?

Maupin Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 12:35 PM
  #49
xX Hot Fuss
HFBoards Sponsor
 
xX Hot Fuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,366
vCash: 500
Looking past the bickering and focusing on the OP...

Insanity will improve your cardio/endurance more than anything but focuses much less on strength building.

P90x is more strength based and uses cardio to get you there. I dont know what shape you're in but you said "offseason" so i'm assuming you play at some higher level of hockey. If you dont mind me asking, how old are you?

P90x and Insanity workouts, IMHO, are for people who spent the last 5 years on the couch scratching their nuts, eating Taco Bell, and watching Law and order. These products are marketed to the people sitting on these couches, like all info-mercials, as "Hey, you can go from tubby to ripped by giving me your money". With the right diet and level of commitment i'm sure these products work wonders on the average person wanting to look better when they take their shirt off.

However, to a competetive (professional?) athlete as yourself, i think a more focused workout regiment would be better. You're not looking to go from flub to ripped right? You're looking to be in an elite hockey shape to improve your game.

Personally i reccomend specific weight lifting, coupled with 15-25 miles (60-90 minutes)on a bike.

I'm just learning how to skate and i've been biking for about 3 years now. The muscle movements are way, way too similar for biking to be ignored.

In summary: You're most likely past the point where P90x and Insanity are going to drastically help you.

xX Hot Fuss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-23-2012, 06:10 PM
  #50
Jimbo7200
Registered User
 
Jimbo7200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce9397 View Post
my problem is that I am at college and my school's weight room is closed for the rest of the year (bad time to close it, I know). I normally workout 4-5 times a week (now that hockey season is over and I'm not on the ice 4-5 times a week) so this is a problem. I just need something to last me until I get home for the summer in May and can start going to the gym again.

I don't want to lose much muscle and I wanna keep my core strong (has always been my strength).

Any of you guys that have tried both, what would be a better fit for me?
I have both, not a big fan of either to be honest. Best workouts you can do are pyramid style kalistetics. Start at one and do as many reps as you can in individual sets.

Jimbo7200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.