Erik Karlsson (Now) vs Mike Green (Prime)

[jbeck5]

Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus

This isn't NHL '12. The first forward line isn't always on with the first defense line. And since this is just 5 on 5, it isn't counting the PP time he spent with them.

And 3rd in QoC isn't exactly sheltered minutes. There are still 5 semi-regular defensemen getting easier assignments than he is. If anything, it's asset management - saving him for the PP, where he typical spent the whole 2 minutes on the ice. Hence the 25 minutes per game.

Who said it was?

As for the rest of your paragraph...they do the exact same with karlsson(asset management part)...except his numbers are still better defensively.

[Sureves]

Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus

This isn't NHL '12. The first forward line isn't always on with the first defense line. And since this is just 5 on 5, it isn't counting the PP time he spent with them.

And 3rd in QoC isn't exactly sheltered minutes. There are still 5 semi-regular defensemen getting easier assignments than he is. If anything, it's asset management - saving him for the PP, where he typical spent the whole 2 minutes on the ice. Hence the 25 minutes per game.

Originally Posted by jbeck5

Who said it was?

As for the rest of your paragraph...they do the exact same with karlsson(asset management part)...except his numbers are still better defensively.

Pretty much what jbeck said. My argument is that Karlsson is better defensively and played against a higher level of quality of competition.

You responded with: "yes, they gave Green sheltered minutes and didn't play him against top units" and that was your defense against my argument that Karlsson is better defensively?

Does not compute.

[VerySuperFamous]

Erik easily. Green played with a MVP/Art Ross/Rocket Richard talent and a lot of other very talented players. Karlsson is six point behind his teams leader in points. As it is if Green kept up his pace over 82 games he still would be 22 points behind Ovechkin. He was 37 points behind the leader compared to 6.

Now is also a lower scoring year with less Power-Plays. Eighteen of Greens goals were power play and I'd assume quite a few of his points so they'd take likely a hit if less penalties were called.

[Sureves]

This is about the most favorable comparison I can make for Green. As discussed in earlier posts, Green's 2010 numbers defensively are horrifying and there honestly should be no comparison made with Karlsson (See Appendix below for 2010 defensive comparison).

That said, because some posters wanted a 2009 comparison (where Green performed much better) here it is.



It is fairly evident in my view that the two players had very similar offensive years in terms of contributions. Green was of course the better goal scorer, so one could certainly make the argument that if they value goals that much more than assists, that Green's year was better.

Defensively however, Karlsson blows Green out of the water, puts him back in the water, and then blows him out of the water a 2nd time.

Karlsson has a better goal differential (GA OFF - GA ON) than Green despite playing on the top defensive unit shutting down the other teams' best players on a nightly basis. Green was 4th in quality of competition on a team who was an absolute trainwreck on the blueline and still failed to outperform Karlsson in the GA OFF - GA ON statistics.

Karlsson also leads the league in takeaways by a significant margin, and played substantially more even strength ice time than Green who was mostly utilized on the powerplay where he did not have to have (virtually) any defensive responsibilities.

To suggest that in this year, 2009, that Green was a better overall player and to suggest in the same breath that Karlsson is worse this year than Weber of Chara is disgusting. Green was ever so marginally better than Karlsson offensively (even that is arguable) because of his significant advantage in goal production and was much worse defensively, playing only 16 minutes a night against 2nd and 3rd lines.

Karlsson is significantly greater than Chara and Weber offensively (think 24 points if I recall correctly) and is worse then them defensively however, it would appear that that gap is much smaller than the Karlsson 2012 vs Green 2009 gap defensively (again see Appendix).

The answer is clear to anyone who wants it, and I think I'm done here with this post.

Appendix

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

Green, buts its very close

[bert]

Just throwing this out there... Isnt Green in his prime? He is 26 years old I know he has had injuries but its just an observation.

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

The terms "Prime" is being thrown completely out of proportions lately in HFboards. Prime mean the years 26/27-31/32.

People associate "prime" with best years, which is incorrect.