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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part IV (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:16 AM
  #151
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Tiger Svoboda View Post
I don't miss any of these guys. All had to go when they left.
The problem is how they were handled as well as the return.

Nobody would be complaining about these guys if the players we replaced them with were just as good or better.

We have nothing to show for the loss of these players. Nothing.

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:17 AM
  #152
onice
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Originally Posted by Edmontreal View Post
(I haven't looked it up myself admittedly)
Montreal
Andrei K
Lapierre
O'Byrne
Halak
Grabs
Streit
Emelin
Chip
Sergei K
D'ago
Lats
Price
White
McDo
Patches
Subban
Weber
Leblanc

The closest team arethe Flyers with 9

Carter
Richards
A.Picard
Fraser
Downie
Giroux
Van Rim
Sbisa
Courtier

I'm not sure but I think Fraser doesn't play in the nHL anymore but I included him anyway.


Last edited by onice: 03-11-2012 at 10:35 AM.
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Old
03-11-2012, 10:22 AM
  #153
onice
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Originally Posted by MrNasty View Post
Every team has moron fans that makes list of players they still wish they had on their team or draft picks that turned into stars. Their lists include Gorges, Cole, Eller, Gionta, etc. What is ironic is that most players that Habs fans wish they still had are good players on horrible teams. They did nothing to make their teams winners. (please don't argue that the reason Nashville has a good team is because of SK)
If Nashville, St Louis, Vancouver, Toronto Colorado, Dallas are horrible teams (most of them are competing for the playoffs) then what are we in 28th place? AHL calibre.

I guess there's a reason why you chose that avatar for yourself.

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:24 AM
  #154
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Latendresse? Only people who should miss him is the manager at mcdonalds downtown.

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:29 AM
  #155
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Yes we have quite a list... but lets not jump off the bridge yet.

It's not only PG and BG. Historically this team is very hard on young players. We expect everyone of them to be Lafleur or Roy. They aren't. On teams like NSH were there is very little external pressure AK can thrive. He'll get big minutes even when he's slumping because there aren't 2 million people breathing down the organizations neck to trade him because he's in a slump.

MaxPac is a good example of a kid with the right attitude and we should follow his lead on bringing guys with that kind of talent up.

Offensive guys need time to develop the confidence to score at all level. On that list of yours we didn't give one of them that chance. They were brought up too soon and given too little ice time. This eats at confidence. Koivu was ready when he got here but we'll never know what could have ben with him because of the injuries.

The reason not to jump. With the exception of Koivu, McDo and to a smaller extent AK, they all talked there way out of town. Of those, there isn't one that wasn't a whipping boy.
Had SK just stayed in Hamilton for 3 months and shut the **** up he'd be on our top line right now. He did NOT have the ability then to be a top line guy yet.
Lats came right out of junior. Giant mistake. Should have been allowed to eat up junior for another year and then dominate AHL for a bit...
Grabo.... imagine him and the Kosty's as our top line... it should have been.... his ego though couldn't take bottom 6.....
Laps.... Is playing his perfect role in Vancouver.... why? Because the french lug nuts thought he should be top 6.... I remember when he and Lats made the team over Chips.... Chips was never the same and Lats and Laps never grew into what they could have.
Ribiero.... bad return... but the guys a weasel... every one wanted him gone.

As for McDo.... he was perhaps the dumbest move ever.... wrong place wrong time.... we'd just been burnt by a couple american draft picks (anyone ever seen Kristo play) not coming and we needed help now. Higgins should have been enough....(you forgot him BTW) He looks good in Vancouver ... lost those puffy eyes that scream..."I'VE BEEN DRINKING WITH HO's ALL NIGHT" that he had in Mtl.

So before you make any revisionist history and cry too much over what might have been... look in the mirror and tell me that right now you aren't salivating over some of our prospects like Beaulieu and Gallagher... hoping that they make the team next year.... WHY... because your hoping for the next Robinson or Lafleur... so is the team... they also need to sell tix... so they cave to the pressure and wreck yet another mans career.... but .... really.... whose fault is it.

I wish AK the best... I'm sorry it didn't happen here.... I'm not jumping off any bridges. I liked the game I watched last night. I will also tell you the IMO if Markov had been healthy this year, we're in the playoff for sure and AK would have had 30.

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:31 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
If Nashville, St Louis, Vancouver, Toronto Colorado, Dallas are horrible teams (most of them are competing for the playoffs) then what are we in 28th place? AHL calibre.

I guess there's a reason why you chose that avatar for yourself.
Well, we did have Andrei for MOST of the season and he didn't exactly help us. Toronto will most likely miss the playoffs (AGAIN) so Grabs hasn't helped them make it since he's been there. Higgins and Lapierre were bounced around after we let them go and they got lucky to land on a stacked team (which we beat last night). I still don't agree that Halak is any better than Price.
Anyway, I would agree to a point that we need to manage our assets better, however, I wouldn't say the former Habs on these teams have helped them THAT much. Also, don't forget, Ribeiro was rumoured to be on the block at the deadline, so he can't be that important to Dallas.

BTW A huge reason we are in 27th is because of all the insane injuries we had this year. Leading the league in that category will do that to a team!!!!

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:34 AM
  #157
onice
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Andrei K
Lapierre
O'Byrne
Halak
Streit
Grabs
Emelin
Chip
Sergei K
D'ago
Lats
Price
White
McDo
Patches
Subban
Weber
Leblanc

Of those 18 players - 11 have been shipped out. Andrei, lapierre, O'Byrne, Halak, Streit, Grabs, Chip, sergei, D'ago, Lats, McDo. This is what we got to show for them:

A 2012 2nd pick, Geoffrion, Bournival, Eller, Pateryn, Palushaj, Gomez. Now that's some great GMing. Aside from Bournival & Eller we get rimed on every trade. And we didn't win any. I'd saythe Bournival & Eller trades are at best draws.

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:47 AM
  #158
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Pacioretty - DD - Cole
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
Gomez - Eller - Moen
White - Nokelainen - Darche

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Kaberle - Diaz

I'd rather have

Pacioretty - DD - Cole
Tanguay/Gionta - Ribeiro - Plekanec
Kostitsyn - Eller - Kostitsyn
White - Lapierre - Moen

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Mcdonagh - Diaz

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:47 AM
  #159
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why is there a new one of these threads daily ? how do you manage to reword something so many times to always warrant a new thread ? These threads are so redundant and useless i don't post often but come on , haven't you already discussed this **** out of this ? any time a ex hab goes on a streak people forget there meds and have a ****ing melt down its sad...

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:48 AM
  #160
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With the exception of Koivu, every one of those players had consistency and attitude issues in Montreal.

Do I wish the Habs still had these players AND the way they play once they are gone? Absolutely. But that wasn't the reality of what happened while they were here.

I am more than happy to see Andrei K let go. I have no doubt he has massive potential and may even make good on it now, but it never seemed as though it was going to happen in montreal. Even playing for a contract on a 1 year deal he couldn't do it.

Riberio, Lats, Lappy, Grab and SK had major attitude issues. O'Byrne was atrocious in MTL.

Streit was too much of a gamble at 5mill/year.

Koivu was unfortunate but they were trying to change the culture of the team at the time.

The ONLY guy i have major regrets about is McDonough.

You can argue the return on some guys no doubt, but I understand most of the moves they've made concerning these players...

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:48 AM
  #161
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Habs have become a draft-and-development service for the league's other 29 teams.

Just have to scratch my head at those who say they're glad we shipped out a young guy for nothing who immediately becomes a top producer on his new team. Like a creep who can't get a date, any girl he manages soon dumps him, so he argues it's all the girls who are messed up.

Hope we can draft high this year, Nashville will need a centre in 2015.

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:52 AM
  #162
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Out of all those mentioned above, the only one who appears to be lighting it up on a consistent basis is Ryder (30-23-53 in 69 GMS) with Grabs (21-26-47 in 62 GMS) coming in behind him. Ribeiro (16-37-53 in 62 GMS) is almost at his usual pace of 60-65 points, Lats (5-4-9 in 16 GMS) seems to plodding along being both injured and under-achieving. Koivu (11-21-32 in 61 GMS) is doing pretty good playing with his best friend. Sergei (17-23-40 in 62 GMS) is not exactly tearing up the league this season but might try a little harder now that he is playing with big brother, Andrei (15-15-30 in 58 GMS) who is (3-3-6 in 5 GMS) since going over to NSH. McDonagh (6-19-25 in 67 GMS) and playing an average of just over 25 MINS TOI would certainly look great on the back end with Subban, Georges, Emelin and now Markov.

I wouldn't mind having Koivu, and McDonagh back and possibly Grabs but not at his new contract price. The others can stay where they are at. We can say we only got picks back for some of them but TT has shown his ability to consistently mind gems in the mid to late rounds. The problem appears to lie, as many posters have agreed, at the management level of actually managing and developing these finds properly.

Also, I do not believe that Gomez will be traded or demoted next year. I sincerely think he will be back and will actually improve next year on a consistent basis. The Habs do not need to rebuild but retool with a couple of tweaks in a trade or UFA find this summer. I have noticed that TT likes to gravitate toward fast, skilled youngsters who have some character in them, as witnessed by the fact so many of them are wearing an 'A' or a 'C' on their sweater.

BTW, I am surprised there was little mention of M Ellis's play the other night against Rimouski which was televised on Sportsnet. He looks to be a guy who will become a steady Top 4 guy. And lets all hope for a healthy return for Mr. Markov for this season and the seasons to come. He is the Habs General out there. In spite of all the minuses this season, I choose to look at the future as being bright and I still love my Habs as much as I did when I first started following them as an 7 year old in 1968! Go Habs!

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:59 AM
  #163
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Don't miss a GD one of them , nothing bad to say about koivu, the rest where nothing but trouble and some just had no heart and soul at all.
Some were lazy and some eat to many burgers .

Ak will not be the next sid the kid or anything, he's playing for a contract, period.
Guy can hit, skate and shoot with the best of them but, only when i decides to play.

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Old
03-11-2012, 11:13 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
Don't miss a GD one of them , nothing bad to say about koivu, the rest where nothing but trouble and some just had no heart and soul at all.
Some were lazy and some eat to many burgers .

Ak will not be the next sid the kid or anything, he's playing for a contract, period.
Guy can hit, skate and shoot with the best of them but, only when i decides to play.
So you have mind control?







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Old
03-11-2012, 11:17 AM
  #165
Kjell Dahlin
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With the exception of Koivu, every one of those players had consistency and attitude issues in Montreal.

Do I wish the Habs still had these players AND the way they play once they are gone? Absolutely. But that wasn't the reality of what happened while they were here.

I am more than happy to see Andrei K let go. I have no doubt he has massive potential and may even make good on it now, but it never seemed as though it was going to happen in montreal. Even playing for a contract on a 1 year deal he couldn't do it.

Riberio, Lats, Lappy, Grab and SK had major attitude issues. O'Byrne was atrocious in MTL.

Streit was too much of a gamble at 5mill/year.

Koivu was unfortunate but they were trying to change the culture of the team at the time.

The ONLY guy i have major regrets about is McDonough.

You can argue the return on some guys no doubt, but I understand most of the moves they've made concerning these players...
1. "... Riberio, Lats, Lappy, Grab and SK had major attitude issues..."

Grabovski and Sergei: ok – both acknowledged it and mentioned that they gained "maturity".

Ribeiro: maybe – he also acknowledged it (family = maturity) but he never requested a trade, skipped a flight or pouted à la Grabovski or Sergei Kostitsyn. Are you referring to his fight against Koivu? Koivu was mad because Ribeiro was "stealing" some of his TOI; Ribeiro defended himself!

Latendresse and Lapierre: major attitude issues... really? When!?

2. "... but it never seemed as though it was going to happen in montreal..."

Andrei Kostitsyn always was among our top goals scorers.

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Old
03-11-2012, 11:17 AM
  #166
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I'm not happy to see Andrei leave either but let's get serious it's only been 5 games. That said I do hope he is succesful in nashville.

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Old
03-11-2012, 11:29 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Andrei K (2nd rounder TBD)
Lapierre (Festerling...McIntyre.... both gone ... 5th rounder this year.)
O'Byrne (Bournival)
Halak (Eller, Schultz)
Streit (UFA)
Grabs (Greg Pateryn + 2nd rounder (traded for Lang)
Emelin
Chip (4th rounder ... Nygren... ?? LMAO)
Sergei K (bag of peanuts)... Ellis and Boyd
D'ago (Palushaj)
Lats (Pouliot....lost to UFA)
Price
White
McDo (Gomez, Pyatt and Busto... I do want to cry....)
Patches
Subban
Weber
Leblanc

Of those 18 players - 11 have been shipped out. Andrei, lapierre, O'Byrne, Halak, Streit, Grabs, Chip, sergei, D'ago, Lats, McDo. This is what we got to show for them:

A 2012 2nd pick, Geoffrion, Bournival, Eller, Pateryn, Palushaj, Gomez. Now that's some great GMing. Aside from Bournival & Eller we get rimed on every trade. And we didn't win any. I'd saythe Bournival & Eller trades are at best draws.
I wanted to do my own research on this. Pretty damming stuff.

Other than McDo though I'm not too upset, mostly spare parts for spare parts. My concern is more how we're developing the talent (or not) that we pick.

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Old
03-11-2012, 12:06 PM
  #168
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Offcourse the organization have to babysit the young players. Especially this who have problems at home or coming from a different country. They are just kids who came to a different country with different language and mentality and don't even have their family with them to support them when needed.
Organization must protect their players from stupid stories that trying to link the players to criminals or tell fans to .....ing shut up and cut a guy who has mother diagnosed with cancer some slack
And how it's always a player's fault he has bad attitude? The only common between all this "bad" guys is that they played for Montreal. It reminds me a woman who was married and divorced 4 times, but it's still not her problem. All her husbands were monsters and she is a victim
SK did not make Nashville better? How come? He was their leading goalscorer last year and working on second consecutive 50 points season. Not bad for a guy who was drafted 200 overall if you ask me. I don't know what people think, but I don't see any forward on Habs current roster with a vision and pass as good as Sergei has.

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Old
03-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #169
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Don't forget Streit either. That would be quite the D with Markov, Gorges, Streit, Subban and McDonagh.
And Wizniewski makes 6.

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Old
03-11-2012, 12:21 PM
  #170
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And Wizniewski makes 6.
Personally don't have that high an opinion of the Wiz. At his salary it was right to let him go.

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03-11-2012, 01:21 PM
  #171
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Personally don't have that high an opinion of the Wiz. At his salary it was right to let him go.
People keep saying this, but some of us have wanted Gomez taken care of (not in the concrete shoes manner, mind you) since before the season, and Gomez money easily covers Wisniewski money. So, possible alternative present day realities include:

Markov - Wisniewski
McDonagh - Streit
Gorges - Subban

or (Markov injured)

McDonagh - Wisniewski
Gorges - Subban
Emelin/Kaberle - Streit

(Streit's strongest pairing in '07/08 from a +/- perspective was actually Gorges-Streit, although he obviously produced more offensively beside Markov and Hamrlik)

Would cost almost exactly $20 million cap (if we had to "overpay" the same amount to keep Streit and Wisniewski). Considering the cheap talent we've had from developing quality forwards for years (just to let them go for beans at the first excuse), that could have been a solid defense to build from if not tied down by the Gomez, Cammy, and Gionta acquisitions which instantly tied up 17 million in cap space. Even having to add Kaberle to fill in for an injured Markov doesn't look bad in that lineup, and obviously represents a cap savings in replacement.

This year and next should have been the years to seriously look at Emelin/Weber/Diaz, and there was only really "pressure" to get Emelin in there asap. In any event, a team that lets someone who worked so well in the system like Wisniewski go because he wants 5 million, but keeps Gomez at 7 - for a similar term, btw (4 more yrs @ 7.3M vs 6 yrs @ 5.5M) - is sabotaging itself. We didn't even have to match what Wiz eventually got (or Streit, remember), we just had to come close.

Anyone want to argue that the lineup above wouldn't be one of the absolute best on paper this year (even with Kaberle, or even Emelin, plugged in for Markov), and probably worth $20M of investment?

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03-11-2012, 01:49 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
In any event, a team that lets someone who worked so well in the system like Wisniewski go because he wants 5 million, but keeps Gomez at 7 - for a similar term, btw (4 more yrs @ 7.3M vs 6 yrs @ 5.5M) - is sabotaging itself.
Eh??

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Old
03-11-2012, 02:51 PM
  #173
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Eh??
Meant to type 3, since we're talking about signings done before this season started.

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Old
03-11-2012, 02:58 PM
  #174
onice
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Other than McDo though I'm not too upset, mostly spare parts for spare parts. My concern is more how we're developing the talent (or not) that we pick.
Spare parts, really?

Andrei is gonna play on the top two lines for a Cup contender. His brother, Sergei, is a 1st liner on the same contender.

Lapierre is 3rd-4th liner on probably the eventual SC winner.

When did Halak become a spare part? But that trade was okay.

O'Byrne I agree could be considered a spare part and we got decent return for him.

Streit is getting paid what....4-5 million. Hardly the salary of a spare part.

Grabs is a decent 2nd line centerman. He's comparable to DD and we're all raving about him. So is DD a spare part also?

Chip yeah oh okay.

D'Agostini is a regular contributor on a team that's leading the league.

Lats: when he played with the Wild he was on pace for 30 goal seasons.

Letting Gainey & Gauthier off the hook by claiming we gave up only spare parts is deceiving. Right now we could have used those spare parts.

None of them are franchise players. Agreed but that doesn't mean you throw them away.

A few years ago I can remember the owner of a successful local business told me take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves. If you don't value your "spare parts" you're gonna go any higher than 28th place in the league.

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03-11-2012, 03:06 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Ribeiro: maybe – he also acknowledged it (family = maturity) but he never requested a trade, skipped a flight or pouted à la Grabovski or Sergei Kostitsyn. Are you referring to his fight against Koivu? Koivu was mad because Ribeiro was "stealing" some of his TOI; Ribeiro defended himself!
It's funny, people often link the fight to Ribiero's departure and act like he was traded for outplaying Koivu. But Ribiero was actually traded after a fairly off year where he was outplayed by Koivu. In fact, the year prior where he led the team in scoring, he really only did so because Koivu was injured, and he played quite poorly in the playoffs.

I suspect that the real reason Gainey wanted to ship him out of town was his off-ice adventures with Theodore and Dagenais- notice that the three amigos all left town around the same time. Why the team was preoccupied with their off-ice adventures, I don't know, but it was probably it. Not a Gainey player because of that, plus poor attitude and weak defensively.

Even looking at it now, I don't see how much of an impact Ribiero would have had for the club. He probably would have blocked Plekanec for a couple of years, then when Koivu's contract expired, we'd have Ribiero and Plekanec as the top two.

So what would have happened? No Gomez trade, maybe. But I think that by that time we'd all be saying that Ribiero is soft and not a big centre, etc, etc, etc...and right now Desharnais is a similarly soft but skilled playmaking centre. Their numbers are quite close in fact.

All that said, Gainey was quite right to trade him, no need for another soft playmaker, but the return was just so abysmal. Very poor pro scouting of Ninimaa, who was washed up by then.

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