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Old
03-09-2012, 11:02 AM
  #101
Mrb1p
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Did that drag on three seasons? No, eh? Wonder why? Is it because Gorges can actual not hurt his team when playing in the defensive end? Yeah, eh...

I too am not a fan of playing guys out of position, but to compare Weber and Gorges, and what they bring to the table is just a distraction.

Weber was the hope of the big shot on the PP, while keeping up in the D end. He passes up more shots than he takes, does not create a lane, and is simply not doing it in his own end.
Gorges, is a defensive D with character.

A team needs both of those roles to be filled. Defensive D's and offensive D's. The trick is offensive D's that do not cost you in the defensive end, and finding the right mix (skill, size, age, style) between all your roster players.

Maybe Weber will become a full time player, but he has not shown the promise of it in his game to make me a believer.
Gorges was older. He already played in SJ.
So you've seen Weber palying constatly on the wing for 3 season heh? Funny. He's in his second season. Last season he was actually a regular remember ? No he wasnt. He played is fair share of games in the AHL. He's greater than what ur saying. Just like all other youngster we have. Or youngster not elevated to the level of god like Lats, Subban and Price.

Remember Patches ? Nuff said.
Watch hockey plz. Dont just talk about it on biased opinions. Bring facts to the table.

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03-09-2012, 11:32 AM
  #102
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Let's not underestimate the fact that Diaz had never played more than 50 games in a season and that the heavy NHL schedule more than likely had an effect on his latest performances. Most europeans need to get used the grind of playing so many games and travelling so much. It's clear that his play degraded after the all star weekend.

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03-09-2012, 12:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I agree.

How many of the guys auditioning for the PMD spot do you feel are keepers?

I can think of one. Subban.

Weber, Diaz, Campoli, Kaberle....none of these are my cup of tea. Kaberle has racked up some points despite his frustratingly gutless play in the defensive end and softie passes in transition ... and Diaz has one more year to become legit...

Emelin brings an element no other player does from the blueline. If he smartens up his positioning in the defensive end...he will continue to become a force.
Guys like Weber and Diaz are just basicallt rookies. I don't see a move made with either of them this summer. Campoli is gone and I can see Kaberle moved once markov shows he is back.

Ideally next year...Subban Gorges Markov and UFA d-man(stay at home) as top 4 with Emelin Diaz and Weber 5-7...good depth in case of injury plus different styles.

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03-09-2012, 12:56 PM
  #104
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Let's not underestimate the fact that Diaz had never played more than 50 games in a season and that the heavy NHL schedule more than likely had an effect on his latest performances. Most europeans need to get used the grind of playing so many games and travelling so much. It's clear that his play degraded after the all star weekend.
Exactly + Playing in Switzerland is like playing all your games between Oshawa and Niagara Falls distance-wise.

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03-09-2012, 05:50 PM
  #105
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Diaz played the last three seasons in Switzerland more than 60 games for the EV zug (including playoffs). And then probably 10 more games for the national team. So it's not like you don't play that much. Travelling is of course another story.

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03-09-2012, 06:12 PM
  #106
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Keep Diaz, trade Weber?

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03-09-2012, 06:14 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Keep Diaz, trade Weber?
+1. Diaz has similar offensive tools to Weber, but his hockey IQ is actually pretty damn high.

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03-09-2012, 09:18 PM
  #108
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+1. Diaz has similar offensive tools to Weber, but his hockey IQ is actually pretty damn high.
When you say similar offensive tools.. You're saying canon of a shot?

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03-09-2012, 09:40 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Guys like Weber and Diaz are just basicallt rookies. I don't see a move made with either of them this summer. Campoli is gone and I can see Kaberle moved once markov shows he is back.

Ideally next year...Subban Gorges Markov and UFA d-man(stay at home) as top 4 with Emelin Diaz and Weber 5-7...good depth in case of injury plus different styles.
That D still isn't good enough...

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03-09-2012, 09:49 PM
  #110
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Weber is weak as hell on his skates, on his checks, and on the boards. He needs 'roids.

Diaz at least looks like he's trying to play defense.

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03-10-2012, 07:34 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Keep Diaz, trade Weber?
I don't see the point unless the return is too good to refuse. Having Weber as a #7 is a nice luxury to have and he has a low cap hit and can step in and play up front in a pinch. Why trade him and then go sign a downgrade?

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03-10-2012, 07:36 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
That D still isn't good enough...
Why not?

Skilled top 4 and solid depth. Don't forget that Diaz and Emelin are rookies adjusting to the NHL they will be better next year x2 if you play them as #5-6 instead of #3-4 like they have a lot of the year due to injuries/struggles.

A healthy Markov would be a massive upgrade to the defense, taking pressure off PK...and so would a strong stay at home d-man(Jackman?) to Gorges.

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03-10-2012, 10:21 PM
  #113
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yeah i think we should dump weber to clb. the guy cannot play defense. so many turnovers as much as campoli.

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03-10-2012, 11:39 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't see the point unless the return is too good to refuse. Having Weber as a #7 is a nice luxury to have and he has a low cap hit and can step in and play up front in a pinch. Why trade him and then go sign a downgrade?
Agreed - he scores points too. His PROD rate is one of the highest among defenseman on the team and he gets limited ice-time.

Markov - Kaberle
Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Diaz
Weber

Looks good to me. The only way I would dump Weber is if we can sign a really good defenseman (Wideman OR Suter). Even in that scenario, I'd keep him as the #8 defenseman/#14 forward. Nothing wrong with having a utility guy around.

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
XXX - Plekanec - Gionta
Bourque - Eller - Leblanc
Moen - White - Geoffrion
Darche

Markov - Suter/Wideman
Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Diaz
Kaberle

Weber

Price
Budaj

That is a solid roster, IMO. I'd gladly try to sign a good 3rd/4th line centre for the 4th line. Someone who can PK well, block shots, and play sound defensive hockey. Someone good on faceoffs and who likes to throw the odd hit would be nice.

We need a winger for Plekanec though. That is #1 priority as far as I'm concerned.

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Old
03-10-2012, 11:58 PM
  #115
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There's no way Weber doesn't have at least Aulie value. I'd try to deal him for a prospect a bit further from the NHL or a physical young forward prospect. We need to sign a tougher vet D type. I think Souray would be perfect but I have my doubts whether he'd want to be back. Our cap structure won't allow a big name UFA signing.

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Kaberle - Souray
Diaz

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03-11-2012, 01:34 AM
  #116
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I think diaz is more of an nhl calibur player than weber, however, I dont see a future for either in montreal. They need something different on the blueline than what these two guys bring.

You go into next season with Markov, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, and Kaberle. I would like to add a rugged 5/6 D in there

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03-11-2012, 03:31 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
There's no way Weber doesn't have at least Aulie value. I'd try to deal him for a prospect a bit further from the NHL or a physical young forward prospect. We need to sign a tougher vet D type. I think Souray would be perfect but I have my doubts whether he'd want to be back. Our cap structure won't allow a big name UFA signing.

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Kaberle - Souray
Diaz
Souray would be great on our PP as the 2nd threat and he'd be (at worst) as bad as Weber.

1 year deal for even up to 2.75m would be fine imo. Though that 3rd pairing is still pretty dreadful (if Kaberle doesn't improve).

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03-11-2012, 03:32 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
When you say similar offensive tools.. You're saying canon of a shot?
When's the last time you've seen Weber pull off this "cannon" of a shot and actually hit the net?

I see him fumbling the puck, messing up basic pinches, fanning on one-timers... basicalyl doing anything but shoot his "cannon". He usually sneaks down and takes a weak wrist shot if anything.

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03-11-2012, 05:38 AM
  #119
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Still no news about the Diaz injury, it's very strange...

Otherwise, i'm ok with the fact to trade Weber and keep Diaz. For me, Diaz deserves a spot next year, it was the frist time he played on small ice, so the next year will be better for him.

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03-11-2012, 06:58 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by swisdan View Post
Still no news about the Diaz injury, it's very strange...

Otherwise, i'm ok with the fact to trade Weber and keep Diaz. For me, Diaz deserves a spot next year, it was the frist time he played on small ice, so the next year will be better for him.
I thought Diaz just had a really bad flu bug?

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03-11-2012, 08:20 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I think diaz is more of an nhl calibur player than weber, however, I dont see a future for either in montreal. They need something different on the blueline than what these two guys bring.

You go into next season with Markov, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, and Kaberle. I would like to add a rugged 5/6 D in there
This.
We need an experienced rugged stay-at-home D to pair with Kaberle.
Markov/Emelin makes me smile.

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Old
03-11-2012, 08:26 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
There's no way Weber doesn't have at least Aulie value. I'd try to deal him for a prospect a bit further from the NHL or a physical young forward prospect. We need to sign a tougher vet D type. I think Souray would be perfect but I have my doubts whether he'd want to be back. Our cap structure won't allow a big name UFA signing.

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Kaberle - Souray
Diaz
Umm...no.

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Old
03-11-2012, 10:27 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I think diaz is more of an nhl calibur player than weber, however, I dont see a future for either in montreal. They need something different on the blueline than what these two guys bring.

You go into next season with Markov, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, and Kaberle. I would like to add a rugged 5/6 D in there
Emelin should be the rugged #5. At least until he proves to be a full time top 4. I would like us to try and sign Jackman Allen Grossman or Stuart. A guy that can play 20 minutes a night and take some heat off Gorges vs top lines.

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03-11-2012, 10:37 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I think diaz is more of an nhl calibur player than weber, however, I dont see a future for either in montreal. They need something different on the blueline than what these two guys bring.

You go into next season with Markov, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, and Kaberle. I would like to add a rugged 5/6 D in there
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Emelin should be the rugged #5. At least until he proves to be a full time top 4. I would like us to try and sign Jackman Allen Grossman or Stuart. A guy that can play 20 minutes a night and take some heat off Gorges vs top lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Keep Diaz, trade Weber?

If I have to choose between Weber and Diaz, I would also keep Diaz (a pleasant surprise) but with Markov, Subban and Kaberle onboard, I would trade Weber AND Diaz to make room for a tough, stay at home, experienced minutes eating D. Soon to be UFA Barret Jackman would be perfect imo.

Markov – Gorges
(Emelin/Jackman) – Subban
Kaberle – (Jackman/Emelin)

#7D: Diaz or Saint-Denis

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03-11-2012, 10:55 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
If I have to choose between Weber and Diaz, I would also keep Diaz (a pleasant surprise) but with Markov, Subban and Kaberle onboard, I would trade Weber AND Diaz to make room for a tough, stay at home, experienced minutes eating D. Soon to be UFA Barret Jackman would be perfect imo.

Markov – Gorges
(Emelin/Jackman) – Subban
Kaberle – (Jackman/Emelin)

#7D: Diaz or Saint-Denis
Completely agree.

What are going to do? Wait 3 years for Diaz to *maybe* end up as good as Kaberle offensively? Let's give Kaberle what he needs to limit his errors and go with that.

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