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March 20: Gustafsson and Manning loaned to Phantoms (AHL)

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Old
03-08-2012, 11:55 PM
  #76
FlyersFan61290
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According to Tim P on csnphilly.com Manning was an emergency call up as many have speculated. He did not mention if Harry Z was as well but he did say that the Flyers still have two (non emergency) call ups remaining. So who are the two "regular" call ups and who are the two emergency call ups of the 4 players recently recalled (Wellwood, Manning, Gus & Harry Z)? Since Jagr was obviously well enough to play last night I don't see how Harry Z could be an emergency call up. That only leaves Wellwood and Gus. Since Shelley was a healthy scratch in Wellwoods first game I don't see how Wellwood could be either. That only leaves Gus. Gus was def eligible as an emergency call up considering the injuries to kimmo and mez but doesn't that then mean that Gus can only stay up for a month? Is my logic sound or am I missing something?

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03-09-2012, 08:58 AM
  #77
MiamiScreamingEagles
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Without overly complicating the issue, both Manning and Harry Z. were emergency recalls as Holmgren worded in the one news article posted.

From what I understand, teams are allowed four non-emergency recalls following the trade deadline and the Flyers have made two (Wellwood and Gustafsson).

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03-09-2012, 09:00 AM
  #78
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https://twitter.com/#!/NHLFlyers/sta...29268658810881

Quote:
ROSTER UPDATE: #Flyers have loaned forward Harry Zolnierczyk to the Adirondack Phantoms today.
Looks like Voracek is probably good to go.

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03-09-2012, 09:03 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Without overly complicating the issue, both Manning and Harry Z. were emergency recalls as Holmgren worded in the one news article posted.

From what I understand, teams are allowed four non-emergency recalls following the trade deadline and the Flyers have made two (Wellwood and Gustafsson).
I still can't understand how Harry Z was an emergency recall. They had 12 healthy forwards, he was the 13th.

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03-09-2012, 09:10 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I still can't understand how Harry Z was an emergency recall. They had 12 healthy forwards, he was the 13th.
This is what I was saying in my post

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03-09-2012, 09:12 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
This is what I was saying in my post
Yep. I wrote an article about it last night if you, or anyone else cared.

http://www.oficeandmenhockey.com/201...been-reported/

Sometimes the lack of transparency on some of the more minor things makes things REALLY confusing.

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03-09-2012, 09:13 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I still can't understand how Harry Z was an emergency recall. They had 12 healthy forwards, he was the 13th.
My guess is they felt Voracek and Jagr would not play yesterday and Harry Z. was needed as the 12th forward. Jagr's availability wasn't likely expected. These were the 11 healthy bodies and Harry Z. was #12.
  1. Scott Hartnell
  2. Claude Giroux
  3. Brayden Schenn
  4. Matt Read
  5. Danny Briere
  6. Wayne Simmonds
  7. Max Talbot
  8. Sean Couturier
  9. Zac Rinaldo
  10. Jody Shelley
  11. Eric Wellwood

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03-09-2012, 09:16 AM
  #83
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So.. we have two normal recalls left now? And emergency recalls are unlimited right?

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03-09-2012, 09:16 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
My guess is they felt Voracek and Jagr would not play yesterday and Harry Z. was needed as the 12th forward. Jagr's availability wasn't likely expected. These were the 11 healthy bodies and Harry Z. was #12.
  1. Scott Hartnell
  2. Claude Giroux
  3. Brayden Schenn
  4. Matt Read
  5. Danny Briere
  6. Wayne Simmonds
  7. Max Talbot
  8. Sean Couturier
  9. Zac Rinaldo
  10. Jody Shelley
  11. Eric Wellwood
Yea, I agree. That's the only logical explanation. That then means the NHL allows for "maybes". It completely discredits the point of an "emergency" recall. IMO, you shouldn't be able to recall someone on emergency because you might possibly need them. You should only be able to do it because you NEED them.

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03-09-2012, 09:17 AM
  #85
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^ To piggyback off that...

Quote:
On Wednesday, general manager Paul Holmgren said he didn't expect Jagr to play Thursday because of a hip injury suffered against Detroit Tuesday.

But Jagr, a future Hall of Famer, was in the lineup against visiting Florida on Thursday. Because the Flyers didn't want him to overdo it, he began the night on the fourth line with Eric Wellwood and Jody Shelley.

"I felt better than I thought I would," Jagr said after the morning skate in Voorhees.
Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz1odJdm6KM

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03-09-2012, 09:20 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
^ To piggyback off that...



Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz1odJdm6KM
Interesting.

So why even bother to limit post trade deadline recalls to 4? Seriously. You can just call someone up whenever you want and claim it's an emergency.

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03-09-2012, 09:22 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Interesting.

So why even bother to limit post trade deadline recalls to 4? Seriously. You can just call someone up whenever you want and claim it's an emergency.
I'll have to re-read that part of the CBA to see if there are provisions.

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03-09-2012, 09:23 AM
  #88
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Well, to be fair.. I would categorize having to play shelley as an emergency.

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03-09-2012, 09:39 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Interesting.

So why even bother to limit post trade deadline recalls to 4? Seriously. You can just call someone up whenever you want and claim it's an emergency.
You have to have X amount of injuries for an emergency call-up

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03-09-2012, 09:40 AM
  #90
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Jagr and Wellwood made Shelley look somewhat competent last night.

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03-09-2012, 10:03 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Serge11 View Post
You have to have X amount of injuries for an emergency call-up
Do you know where in the CBA it says that? I wasn't able to find it when I looked.

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03-09-2012, 10:12 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge11 View Post
You have to have X amount of injuries for an emergency call-up
I just looked up every occurrence of the word "emergency" in the CBA. There is no stipulation about number of injuries. Emergency recall is based strictly upon number of available skaters. 12-6-2 respectively.

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03-09-2012, 10:15 AM
  #93
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Yeah I am not sure exactly. I remember Giroux was an emergency call up from the Q a couple of years ago

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03-09-2012, 10:26 AM
  #94
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The way I interpret it is, at the time of the call-up it was deemed the team had 11 playable forwards. Jagr became a game-time decision, allowing for the emergency recall status applied to Harry. Jagr played so Harry goes back as he is not needed as an emergency anymore. Had Jagr missed the game, it could not have been as a Healthy Scratch, or else Harry Z would count as the 3rd of 4 recalls.

If Jagr missed the game as an injury scratch had Harry he played he would have counted as emergency as there were only 11 available forwards.

Because Jagr was a 'Game time' decision, the NHL must allow you to call up a player on the premise that as a game time decision, you may not have a full 12, and in the case you dont, you may use this player. If you do have a deemed healthy 12 and you use him, it counts against the 4 allowed post deadline.

Sounds like this is the case, and to me it makes sense because not all injuries are as black and white as a yes I can or a No I cant, but must be tested leading up to the game, in which case Logistics of travel etc do not allow for a 12th player to simply show up from down the street at a moments notice, but must travel to be there, so they allow the call-up sooner rather then later allowing the player to arrive, then the decision is made whether Jagr is healthy enough to play or not before the game.

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03-09-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
The way I interpret it is, at the time of the call-up it was deemed the team had 11 playable forwards. Jagr became a game-time decision, allowing for the emergency recall status applied to Harry. Jagr played so Harry goes back as he is not needed as an emergency anymore. Had Jagr missed the game, it could not have been as a Healthy Scratch, or else Harry Z would count as the 3rd of 4 recalls.

If Jagr missed the game as an injury scratch had Harry he played he would have counted as emergency as there were only 11 available forwards.

Because Jagr was a 'Game time' decision, the NHL must allow you to call up a player on the premise that as a game time decision, you may not have a full 12, and in the case you dont, you may use this player. If you do have a deemed healthy 12 and you use him, it counts against the 4 allowed post deadline.

Sounds like this is the case, and to me it makes sense because not all injuries are as black and white as a yes I can or a No I cant, but must be tested leading up to the game, in which case Logistics of travel etc do not allow for a 12th player to simply show up from down the street at a moments notice, but must travel to be there, so they allow the call-up sooner rather then later allowing the player to arrive, then the decision is made whether Jagr is healthy enough to play or not before the game.
I agree because that's the only logical explanation at this point. I guess I'm a stickler for language though.

If I'm running the league, and a team wants to use an emergency recall, then the player who is "hurt" is 100% out, no matter what at the time of recall. Because otherwise, again, what is the point in allowing four recalls? If you need an emergency recall, by all means do it, but you sure as heck better declare someone as OUT with an injury/illness. It should NOT be precautionary. It should be truly an emergency, as defined.

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03-09-2012, 10:42 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I agree because that's the only logical explanation at this point. I guess I'm a stickler for language though.

If I'm running the league, and a team wants to use an emergency recall, then the player who is "hurt" is 100% out, no matter what at the time of recall. Because otherwise, again, what is the point in allowing four recalls? If you need an emergency recall, by all means do it, but you sure as heck better declare someone as OUT with an injury/illness. It should NOT be precautionary. It should be truly an emergency, as defined.
Well the purpose for a lot of teams is to give young guys a shot to play when their NHL teams are out of it, but also because alot of teams are using unproven talent that may not be sufficient for the NHL. Look at the Leafs as an example of a team that regularly switches out recalls, as well as the Flyers for the matter. We have seen Harry, Wellwood, Gus, Bourdon, Marshall, Manning, Rinaldo?, Sestito, Schenn all been recalled.

Limiting it to 4 past the deadline ramps up team accountability, not to make the NHL a joke by recalling and sending down 12 guys in an attept to be 'more competitive' etc. I look at it the same way as I look at the 50 contract rule, if it wasnt there, there are teams who would try ever damn player from the AHL on their roster. You just can't have that bushleague **** going on.

If you havent figured out who your top 4 recall players are by now, then you deserve your fate at the bottom of the pile.

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03-09-2012, 10:57 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Yea, I agree. That's the only logical explanation. That then means the NHL allows for "maybes". It completely discredits the point of an "emergency" recall. IMO, you shouldn't be able to recall someone on emergency because you might possibly need them. You should only be able to do it because you NEED them.
But you can't wait until the afternoon of the game to decide, so you emerg recall Harry Z on the assumption Jagr and Voracek aren't playing. Then if after the morning skate, or after the pregame skate for that matter, Jagr declares himself fit you tell Harry Z to get undressed, he's not needed as an emerg recall.

You have to honour the logistics of calling a player up from another town, even if it turns out the emergency subsides.

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03-09-2012, 11:02 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I agree because that's the only logical explanation at this point. I guess I'm a stickler for language though.

If I'm running the league, and a team wants to use an emergency recall, then the player who is "hurt" is 100% out, no matter what at the time of recall. Because otherwise, again, what is the point in allowing four recalls? If you need an emergency recall, by all means do it, but you sure as heck better declare someone as OUT with an injury/illness. It should NOT be precautionary. It should be truly an emergency, as defined.
The problem is that players like Jagr can play hurt, so there is no such thing as '100%' hurt. All the players are at 85% this time of year.

The point of allowing only 4 recalls is that the NHLPA didn't want players to lose ice time or pay cuts at the end of the year, and it also prevents teams from tanking by calling up half their AHL squad, or coasting into the playoffs by giving their vets some rest games down the stretch.

The league wants to eliminate the limit, but it was collectively bargained and can only be undone mutually. There is an article on TSN.ca about it.

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03-11-2012, 01:47 PM
  #99
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RT @PhantomsHockey: Harry Zolnierczyk has been recalled by the Philadelphia Flyers. He will not be available for today's Phantoms game at Worcester at 3:00.

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03-11-2012, 02:02 PM
  #100
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RT @PhantomsHockey: Harry Zolnierczyk has been recalled by the Philadelphia Flyers. He will not be available for today's Phantoms game at Worcester at 3:00.
Could we have another injury or maybe Jagr not able to go tonight cause of his sore hip..

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