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Cory Schneider / Roberto Luongo to Tampa Bay

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Old
03-10-2012, 04:36 AM
  #26
garmonbozia
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I don't want to trade for a goalie.

I know we need a new one...or two.
I know you need to 'give to get'.
I know good ones don't just grow on trees.

I'm not super attached to Connolly, any unpicked draft pick now until whenever, Purcell, Hedman...whatever. I'm not in principle against trading any piece other than Stamkos or St. Louis if I really believe it improves the team. I've yet to see a goalie proposal that improves us without plundering us...even from our own.

If the Varlamov trade really is the new standard (I think its an exception, not the rule)...then we should not make a trade to fill our goaltending need. Better off 'trading' 2013 picks by signing an RFA to an offersheet, since it seems like most of the desired commodities are restricted this offseason anyway.



Sadly, I expect there to be a less than ideal short term fix this offseason. Another suspect UFA retread who isn't notably better than the laundry list of mediocre goalies on short term deals that have waddled their way through over the years.

Our Defense is still going to need a lot of work this offseason, and the bottom 6 will need more than a shuffle of internal parts after moving Moore, Downie, and Ashton out.

As much as we might NEED a magical goaltender fix, I don't see it coming in trade, and certainly not at the costs imagined across the forums.


Last edited by garmonbozia: 03-10-2012 at 04:38 AM. Reason: more piratical...arrrgh, or maybe less
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Old
03-10-2012, 05:34 AM
  #27
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Varlamov isn't or at least shouldn't be the standard for Schneider (or Bernier) as he was/is far more proven in the playoffs.

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Old
03-10-2012, 05:53 AM
  #28
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I can guarantee you that the Canucks wont be moving Hansen anytime soon.

The Canucks would probably want Connolly and Detroit's 1st for Schneider, but I think Connolly, Minnesota/Tampa's 2nd (whichever is earlier by the end of the season), and Tampa's 3rd would be enough.

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03-10-2012, 10:58 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
I can guarantee you that the Canucks wont be moving Hansen anytime soon.

The Canucks would probably want Connolly and Detroit's 1st for Schneider, but I think Connolly, Minnesota/Tampa's 2nd (whichever is earlier by the end of the season), and Tampa's 3rd would be enough.
I wouldn't give up Connolly for Schenider.

Los Angeles:

Philadelphia's 2nd
Tampa Bay's 2nd
or
Detroit's 1st

Tampa Bay:

G Johnathan Bernier

Thoughts?

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Old
03-10-2012, 11:06 AM
  #30
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If we only give up a late 1st for Bernier Yzerman is a bigger genius than we thought. I think in general Lightning fans are underrating Schneider and Bernier's value but I would be hesitant include Connolly with the trades of Downie and Ashton.

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Old
03-10-2012, 11:19 AM
  #31
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The way Connolly has been playing recently, the kid looks like a star in the making. Can't tell you how many plays he has made single handedly. Kid is on our 3rd line that really should be a fourth line and going out there bossin it up. Trade that and a 1st round pick for a backup goaltender????? no

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Old
03-10-2012, 12:00 PM
  #32
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Connolly, a first and two seconds for Schneider?

Some people forget there are other goaltenders on the market and SY isn't Holmgren.

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Old
03-10-2012, 12:24 PM
  #33
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They also forget the Connolly would have been top 3 pick but for the injury in his senior year. Getting him at 6th was a steal.

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Old
03-10-2012, 12:25 PM
  #34
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I dont have a problem giving up picks, as I tend to believe they are somewhat over-valued. Connolly is tearing it up now, and Yzerman I think really likes him and wants him to stay here (and is somewhat more attached to him as he was Stevie Y's first big draft pick). I would think any move Yzerman makes for a goaltender would probably consist of just picks; but again, it is very very hard to determine the right value. GM's are a weird bunch and they always make moves that make me scratch my head.

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Old
03-10-2012, 12:32 PM
  #35
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Mark my words we would regret trading Connolly for ANYONE!

Having torn up my Eric Brewer fan club card, I bet we could get some sucker GM to give up a good #1 goalie for him and a 2nd. The poor guy would actually think he was getting a really good defenseman and think he robbed SFY.

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Old
03-10-2012, 12:52 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AimForTopCheddar View Post
I wouldn't give up Connolly for Schenider.

Los Angeles:

Philadelphia's 2nd
Tampa Bay's 2nd
or
Detroit's 1st

Tampa Bay:

G Johnathan Bernier

Thoughts?
I would love that, but unfortunately it's too little for Bernier. He's still a top 10 overall prospect in the league according to the scout's rankings and is signed for another year before he becomes a RFA (unlike Schneider).

Let's not forget that the cost will be higher since he's a french Canadian

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03-10-2012, 12:55 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Bolts265 View Post
Mark my words we would regret trading Connolly for ANYONE!

Having torn up my Eric Brewer fan club card, I bet we could get some sucker GM to give up a good #1 goalie for him and a 2nd. The poor guy would actually think he was getting a really good defenseman and think he robbed SFY.
Who exactly are you going to get for Brewer and a 2nd? Good #1 goalie doesn't seem to fit in with that.

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Old
03-10-2012, 01:03 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by garmonbozia View Post
I don't want to trade for a goalie.

I'm not super attached to Connolly, any unpicked draft pick now until whenever, Purcell, Hedman...whatever. I'm not in principle against trading any piece other than Stamkos or St. Louis if I really believe it improves the team. I've yet to see a goalie proposal that improves us without plundering us...even from our own.

Sadly, I expect there to be a less than ideal short term fix this offseason. Another suspect UFA retread who isn't notably better than the laundry list of mediocre goalies on short term deals that have waddled their way through over the years.

Our Defense is still going to need a lot of work this offseason, and the bottom 6 will need more than a shuffle of internal parts after moving Moore, Downie, and Ashton out.

As much as we might NEED a magical goaltender fix, I don't see it coming in trade, and certainly not at the costs imagined across the forums.
I like the realistic approach you took here, with the exception of not being super attached to Connolly and Hedman. The two should be future stars and Hedman is already far and away our best defender when healthy. You are definitely right that there may be no viable offseason goalie fix for us and we'll have to wait another year before something realistic materializes.

The bottom 6 forward situation can be resolved with names like Gaustad, Moen, Moss, Tootoo, Pahlsson, Moore, Stoll, Kelly, Prust, Nichol, Konopka, D.Jones all potentially hitting UFA. We should give at least another year to see what we have in Aulie and Lee and sign one or two UFA defensemen to shore up the group (Suter, Jackman, Zanon, Wideman, B.Stuart, Eaton, Sauer, Grossman).

No one knows what it'll realistically cost to acquire Schneider and Bernier. The fact that they were "rumoured" to be available and weren't traded leads us to believe that their value could be higher than it actually is. However, their values could be as high as we imagine them to be...

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Old
03-10-2012, 01:45 PM
  #39
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The next 10 games by Tic will determine a lot. Garon-Tic might be the choice next year, so SFY can concentrate on the defense and depth this year. Remember we are not in a 'win now' mode, but a five year plan to build a perennial playoff team. Making the playoffs is just a bonus for the next few years.

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03-10-2012, 02:56 PM
  #40
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Who exactly are you going to get for Brewer and a 2nd? Good #1 goalie doesn't seem to fit in with that.
Like I said some GM who thinks he is robbing SFY for letting Brewer go. Hey, I can dream can't I?

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03-10-2012, 03:22 PM
  #41
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It would be best to keep the young assets and draft picks. Yzerman should look hard at bringing in Vokoun or Nabokov as a stop in the off-season. The team can use a veteran goaltender while Tokarski splits time next season to gauge his talent in the NHL.

If Tampa wants a younger goalie with potential, than perhaps Harding would be an option for Yzerman to sign in free agency. There are many options out there for a goalie without giving up assets.

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03-10-2012, 03:38 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BoltSTH View Post
The next 10 games by Tic will determine a lot. Garon-Tic might be the choice next year, so SFY can concentrate on the defense and depth this year. Remember we are not in a 'win now' mode, but a five year plan to build a perennial playoff team. Making the playoffs is just a bonus for the next few years.
Living in Toronto, this is probably the scariest thing I could hear as a hockey fan. Burke constantly reiterates how there's a 5 year plan to not only get the team into the playoffs, but be a perennial Stanley Cup contender.

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It would be best to keep the young assets and draft picks. Yzerman should look hard at bringing in Vokoun or Nabokov as a stop in the off-season. The team can use a veteran goaltender while Tokarski splits time next season to gauge his talent in the NHL.

If Tampa wants a younger goalie with potential, than perhaps Harding would be an option for Yzerman to sign in free agency. There are many options out there for a goalie without giving up assets.
Nabokov and Vokoun would be great stop gap solutions. No thanks to Harding, who's been injury plagued most of his career and has shown that he can't be a good #1 in this league when given the reigns (since Backstrom's been out with injury).

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Old
03-10-2012, 03:45 PM
  #43
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Like I said some GM who thinks he is robbing SFY for letting Brewer go. Hey, I can dream can't I?
Who replaces Brewer? When Ohlund went down people didn't think it would be that big of a deal but we lost a lot of depth to our blueline when he couldn't play.

As BoltSTH said, the next 10 or so games will determine if Tic can roll with Garon next year or if we need to look at another goalie. I hope Tic impresses because if we upgrade the D infront of our goalies we are a playoff team without a doubt.

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03-10-2012, 03:50 PM
  #44
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Who replaces Brewer? When Ohlund went down people didn't think it would be that big of a deal but we lost a lot of depth to our blueline when he couldn't play.

As BoltSTH said, the next 10 or so games will determine if Tic can roll with Garon next year or if we need to look at another goalie. I hope Tic impresses because if we upgrade the D infront of our goalies we are a playoff team without a doubt.
Very good point on Brewer. I think a lot of his problems stem from too many minutes in too big a role. As a second pairing guy he would be a lot better.

Tic and Garon as our duo next season? He'll have to be pretty impressive the rest of the way, and the D will need at least one major upgrade on the top pairing.

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03-10-2012, 04:32 PM
  #45
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Who replaces Brewer? When Ohlund went down people didn't think it would be that big of a deal but we lost a lot of depth to our blueline when he couldn't play.
As far as who replaces the traffic cone wearing Brewers number there will be an abundance of UFA's on defense that could easily step into his shoes especially when we dump his salary in a trade giving us more cap money. Not to mention the players currently on the roster who may be a pleasant surprise and have been so far. We also have some prospects in Norfolk. Not that hard to play like Brewer has this year. Sorry but I have seen him as a gigantic disappointment. He has not been nearly the player we traded for last year. Not much to say about a player who falters because he got more responsibility and had to tough it up.

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Old
03-11-2012, 02:09 PM
  #46
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If Tampa Bay is likely the best Bidder for Schneider service next summer..what do you think of this strategy:

Make absolutely no offer to Vancouver and hope Schneider make it to July and make him an offer sheet.

If another team acquire Schneider before July, Then Tampa Bay can make an offer to this team for Schneider. Since we assume Tampa Bay is the best bidder for Schneider, their offer will be greater than what this team paid to Vancouver. The team who previously acquired Schneider could be glad to flip Schneider and make a profit in the process.

This way to process avoid a bidding war to inflate artificially the price to acquire an offersheet eligible Schneider.

And if nothing work as planned and Tampa Bay miss their opportunity to acquire (Overpay for?) Schneider, then we come back to plan A and sign a UFA. Schneider could still be avaible as UFA in the following years.

Note for the people who think its not realist: This strategy happened before when Boston acquired Jeff Hackett via SJ. André Savard (Montreal GM at the time) said publicly after the trade they didnt had any good offer from Boston before they traded Hackett to SJ.

Here is some quote from Savard after the hackett trade...

Quote:
Bruins never proposed us such an exchange
Quote:
I admit that the Bruins are better today with Jeff Hackett, said Savard. But we had the choice to make this transaction with the Sharks or to keep Hackett in Montreal. But the probability of losing him without obtaining anything in return was very strong.


Last edited by palindrom: 03-11-2012 at 04:33 PM.
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03-11-2012, 03:04 PM
  #47
chasespace
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
If Tampa Bay is likely the best Bidder for Schneider service next summer..what do you think of this strategy:

Make absolutely no offer to Vancouver and hope Schneider make it to July and make him an offer sheet.

If another team acquire Schneider before July, Then Tampa Bay can make an offer to this team for Schneider. Since we assume Tampa Bay is the best bidder for Schneider, their offer will be greater than what this team paid to Vancouver. The team who previously acquired Schneider could be glad to flip Schneider and make a profit in the process.

This way to process avoid a bidding war to inflate artificially the price to acquire an offersheet eligible Schneider.

And if nothing work as planned and Tampa Bay miss their opportunity to acquire (Overpay for?) Schneider, then we come back to plan A and sign a UFA. Schneider could still be avaible as UFA in the following years.

Note for the people who think its not realist: This strategy happened before when Boston acquired Jeff Hackett via SJ. André Savard (Montreal GM at the time) said publicly after the trade they didnt had any good offer from Boston before they traded Hackett to SJ.
This is a terrible plan. If a team pays for Schneider it will be because he is in their immediate plans. It makes no sense to pay top dollar for a goalie then flip him for a package that(since it's coming from Tampa) won't have a starting goalie in it.

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03-11-2012, 03:24 PM
  #48
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yep, no sense for a team to acquire him and then dealing him again

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03-11-2012, 03:26 PM
  #49
palindrom
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This is a terrible plan. If a team pays for Schneider it will be because he is in their immediate plans. It makes no sense to pay top dollar for a goalie then flip him for a package that(since it's coming from Tampa) won't have a starting goalie in it.
Well, the first plan is to wait and hope Schneider become eligible to offer sheet.

If another team acquire him, then Tampa Bay bring their offer.

Since we assume Tampa Bay wanted Schneider more than any other team, their offer could convince the team to trade back Schneider and look at their other option for a goalie (we will be one week from free agency and months away from the start of the season, plenty options around!).

If you are Colombus and pay X value for Schneider and you get the opportunity to trade back Schneider for X+ you get a plus value for it and it cost you nothing. It could be tempting if the offer is right.

If it doesnt work at all, then its not the end of the world. Why not try?

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03-11-2012, 03:28 PM
  #50
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yep, no sense for a team to acquire him and then dealing him again
If you buy a new house 150 000$ and someone come to you and offer you 200 000$ for it would it make sense to you to think about dealing your new house again?

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