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Why don`t OHL teams... (EDIT give OJHL players a shot?)

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01-25-2012, 05:29 PM
  #1
Torts
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Why don`t OHL teams... (EDIT give OJHL players a shot?)

Ive been wondering this for a while now,

Clearly the OJHL is a developmental league but why are there players playing there tearing the league up and not at least given a shot at cracking an OHL roster. I understand some players are dead set on the NCAA route but if you tear up Jr. A would a OHL team not find some interest in you. Looking through the scoring leaders there are players that are eligible for the OHL for at least a couple more years.

Just to use an example, players like Darcy Murphy (92 born, Wellington) and Ralph Cuddemi (93 born, Mississauga) have both had above average years in Jr. A. Would it not be a good idea for OHL teams to try scouting and recruiting these players (they might, im not sure) to strengthen their respective clubs.

Im sure some players might not be drafted but is there no free agent eligibility that these players could take advantage of and work towards playing in a better league such as the OHL. Maybe some of these players were drafted after their Minor Midget season but why have we not seen more of these players making the jump from OJHL to the OHL?

Good, maybe even great junior hockey players are playing Jr. A all across the country and I am really just wondering what factors are stopping these players from playing in Major Junior other than the NCAA route. Would playing in the OHL not give a player more coverage and visibility and essentially a better chance to pursue a longer and more successful hockey career?


Last edited by Majik1987: 03-11-2012 at 07:28 PM. Reason: title update
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01-25-2012, 08:36 PM
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RyanHPscout
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Although it's only partially relevant I'll share a story with you. Last year at the NHL Combine, I spoke with the 5th rated goaltender in North America. Steven Michalek. I asked him if he ever considered taking the CHL route at some point, and he told me "No CHL team has ever contacted me, so I suppose it would be something I'd have to think about and take into consideration if it ever happened."

So with that said, I think there are definite avenue's that get overlooked at this level. It's very possible that sitautions get assumed, and it happens so much that a player gets completely overlooked. Michalek was rated 1 spot higher than Jordan Binnington by NHL Central Scouting.

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01-25-2012, 09:08 PM
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NCAA rules probably play a fairly large part in players tearing up lower leagues not playing in the CHL. I've also noticed from watching Jr A here in the CCHL a fairly large number of players are what you would consider undersized for the CHL which could also play a factor.

Also keep in mind you are dealing with kids, kids can have attitudes that some teams may not want to have to contend with. On that note, a talented kid who has parents who are known to be problems can also cause a team to deem it not worth the irritation.

Finally, sometimes kids just get lost in the cracks and are overlooked for no apparent reason

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01-25-2012, 09:44 PM
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There is never really one real reason. Usually a multitude of them.

There are a mix of kids who can play in the OHL right now (Drake Caggulia and Devin Shore are two that stick out right away), but most of them want a top end education package, and teams are very shy to give those out. They are not going to walk away from a full ride at North Dakota and Maine respectfully for a standard OHL education packege.

Another reason are that by the time players are at the level they are, they are 18-19, and OHL tams would rather invest in a 17 year old, and truthfully, the 19 year old probably doesn't want to go to the OHL for only a single year of schooling paid for.

Third, and its a bigger factor then a lot of OJHL people like to mention, is the league has really been watered down over the past ten years. The rapid expansion has really diluted the product. They are finally making moves to fix it, but it will take a while to get there.

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01-26-2012, 05:58 AM
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There is never really one real reason. Usually a multitude of them.

There are a mix of kids who can play in the OHL right now (Drake Caggulia and Devin Shore are two that stick out right away), but most of them want a top end education package, and teams are very shy to give those out. They are not going to walk away from a full ride at North Dakota and Maine respectfully for a standard OHL education packege.

Another reason are that by the time players are at the level they are, they are 18-19, and OHL tams would rather invest in a 17 year old, and truthfully, the 19 year old probably doesn't want to go to the OHL for only a single year of schooling paid for.

Third, and its a bigger factor then a lot of OJHL people like to mention, is the league has really been watered down over the past ten years. The rapid expansion has really diluted the product. They are finally making moves to fix it, but it will take a while to get there.
This.

And might I add that it probably wouldn't be a smart move for these kids.

As much as I love the OHL as a developmental league...if I had a son who was playing hockey and was in the situation you described above...I would advise him to take the NCAA route.

There aren't too many guys who come late to the OHL and end up getting themselves a look from the NHL. More often then not, they end up not getting the playing time and end up back in Tier 2 anyway (at least as an overager).

So you give up a full scholarship, where you have 4 years to grow as a hockey player, to achieve little in the advancement of your 'potential' hockey career. Not only that, but you're getting a smaller window to impress people. A guy like Ralph Cuddemi, he comes to the OHL next year and he's got two years to play in the league...to make an impression on NHL scouts. He goes to school (doesn't have one yet), he gets four years. It's all about maximizing your exposure.

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01-26-2012, 06:28 AM
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This.

And might I add that it probably wouldn't be a smart move for these kids.

As much as I love the OHL as a developmental league...if I had a son who was playing hockey and was in the situation you described above...I would advise him to take the NCAA route.

There aren't too many guys who come late to the OHL and end up getting themselves a look from the NHL. More often then not, they end up not getting the playing time and end up back in Tier 2 anyway (at least as an overager).

So you give up a full scholarship, where you have 4 years to grow as a hockey player, to achieve little in the advancement of your 'potential' hockey career. Not only that, but you're getting a smaller window to impress people. A guy like Ralph Cuddemi, he comes to the OHL next year and he's got two years to play in the league...to make an impression on NHL scouts. He goes to school (doesn't have one yet), he gets four years. It's all about maximizing your exposure.
Conversely.....for every player who has a full scholarship offer there probably are 2 other players that thought they did til the day of reckoning comes.
As there are only so many OHL Gold Education packages, there is also only so many full scholarships rides from the NCAA.
Isn't there also a limit by the NCAA on Canadian players on a team also?

As for non-drafted players on OHL rosters, Kitchener had three on their roster this year. Jonathon Jasper (4 yr vet who was traded to Petes,
Brandon Lesway and Stephan Midensky)

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01-26-2012, 07:41 AM
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There is no limit on Canadians on NCAA rosters, but there is a limit on number of scholarships. Based on a trip to the U of Michigan my son's team took recently, there are 18 scholarships available. They provide full rides to some of their top recruits and then have to give out partial scholarships to the remainder. Michigan also relies on at least 5 walk-on's to complete their 25 man roster.

One year at Michigan (no doubt many of the other US schools are similairly priced) works out to about $45k USD/year. My view is that if my son was fortunate enough to develop into a player that could garner a scholarship, that $45k is what I would be paying anyway for four years at a Canadian school, so it would be a wash really.

Looking at the rosters of US D1 schools, it is pretty obvious some schools are more pro-Canadian than others. In the two games we took in, Michigan played St.Lawrence University. All but 4 of the Wolverines were American. St.L:awrence was reversed.

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01-26-2012, 03:44 PM
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I get the jist of potentially more exposure if they follow ncaa route after jr. a

Does anyone know the differences between ohl education packages?

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01-29-2012, 03:12 AM
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NCAA rules probably play a fairly large part in players tearing up lower leagues not playing in the CHL. I've also noticed from watching Jr A here in the CCHL a fairly large number of players are what you would consider undersized for the CHL which could also play a factor.
Undersized for the CHL is undersized for the NCAA as well.

I've seen Lino Martschni play. His size doesn't really hold him back in the CHL.

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01-29-2012, 03:13 AM
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I know a kid currently playing in the OHL who was very interested in the NCAA route but got no interest from NCAA schools because they assumed he wasn't interested. There needs to be a way to declare your intentions one way or the other, IMO.

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01-29-2012, 07:07 PM
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I know a kid currently playing in the OHL who was very interested in the NCAA route but got no interest from NCAA schools because they assumed he wasn't interested. There needs to be a way to declare your intentions one way or the other, IMO.
I think there is a way to declare your intentions to NCAA by not going to an OHL camp as a 16 year old. Play Tier II Jr. If your marks are good enough and you are a good player the NCAA schools will find you.Most kids don't go to an NCAA school until they are 18 or 19.

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01-30-2012, 01:22 PM
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I know a kid currently playing in the OHL who was very interested in the NCAA route but got no interest from NCAA schools because they assumed he wasn't interested. There needs to be a way to declare your intentions one way or the other, IMO.
Its improved with College Hockey Inc. now playing a more active role, but there are still major holes.

In my mind, the best thing for College Hockey Inc to do is set up a full time person who travels to rinks daily, checking in with players and ensuring that they know their options. That person would forward a list of top prospects for Universities to look at, with a significant factor being their interest in
the NCAA.

It would be a lot of work, but would be a good solution for all involed. Heck, it be a dream job for yours truly lol.

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03-11-2012, 06:07 PM
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I have a question I am hoping someone here can answer for me. Is it appropriate for a 96 AAA player who has played on a weak team that didn't get viewed a lot and exited in the first round of playoffs to e-mail the various OHL teams with a feature sheet, game tape etc.? Thanks for your reply

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03-11-2012, 06:30 PM
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I have a question I am hoping someone here can answer for me. Is it appropriate for a 96 AAA player who has played on a weak team that didn't get viewed a lot and exited in the first round of playoffs to e-mail the various OHL teams with a feature sheet, game tape etc.? Thanks for your reply
Certainly couldn't hurt. If you legitimately feel your son can play Major Junior in the next season or so, I say throw caution the wind and send it out. Probably won't get him drafted, but he could very well land a walk-on tryout.

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03-11-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan7 View Post
I have a question I am hoping someone here can answer for me. Is it appropriate for a 96 AAA player who has played on a weak team that didn't get viewed a lot and exited in the first round of playoffs to e-mail the various OHL teams with a feature sheet, game tape etc.? Thanks for your reply
I know many years ago, 70s and 80s players that were undrafted would contact teams looking for a tryout now in this day and age where it can be harder to het noticed outside of the bigger AAA areas or on a weaker team I would imagine it can't hurt.

The one thing to remember though is that any kid not drafted in their first year of eligibility has to go through a second draft before they can be signed as a FA.

If this concerns your son I would look at sending out some info to as many teams as possible. Even if it does not get him drafted this season his name is out there, scouts will get a chance to look at him and reconsider him next season.

I would also look at sending the info out to other leagues as well. If he is not drafted this season or next he becomes a FA and I believe he can go to any of the 3 CHL leagues as well as possibly statside as well.

Good luck with it.

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03-12-2012, 07:37 AM
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Thanks, I appreciate it!

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03-12-2012, 08:09 AM
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Playoffs for the OJHL have been heating up. The games I've attended have been very good as playoff hockey is normally where you'll see the best hockey. I do agree that more OJHL players should play in the OHL but what most don't realize is that a lot dont want to. Believe it or not many have the talent but they would rather venture their NCAA options. I know some OHL teams right now pursuing their affiliate players willing to give them a spot on the team right now but the some of the players just rather take a chance at the NCAA route.


Imagine being offered a spot in one of the best junior development leagues and declining the offer. Some players get that opportunity while others who are interested in the OHL are not as fortunate.

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09-05-2012, 02:01 PM
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Here are my thoughts....

The OHL being in Ontario has so many fish in the net every year there is no time or incentive to go out and recruit OJHL players. granted there are plenty of players in OJHL that can play OHL, however were generally overlooked in their draft year due to having late growth spurts, puberty or needed a year or two to get to the next level.

Plenty of OJHL players do end up being scouted / recruited by QMJHL teams since their is less of a player pool there. The QMJHL knows from experience the late bloomers who are a year or two behind catch up and in some cases surpass the first crop, but a player has to determine if two to three years of Major Junior is worth the gamble as time goes past quickly and it would take a year minimum to get on scouts radars.

The large portion of what players in the OJHL wish to attain is usually NCAA Div 1 schoalerships. I have been informed top schools recieve 18 D1 schoalerships of which 14 are divied up as full schoalerships while the remaining 4 are partials. The numbers can be divied up different ways, but that is what I was told in meetings. NCAA Division 1 IVY League schools are zero athletic schoalerships, however will give financial assistance based upon need. NCAA Div 3 Schools do not offer schaolerships, but an option for those with money who wish to carry on with hockey.

So for many the OHL route is not a primary goal as time is working against you, NCAA Div 1 offers far more benefits and choice based upon the number of kids who graduate the NCAA route.

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09-06-2012, 08:23 AM
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I havent seen it mentioned, but some kids that have the potential to be decent OHL players simply realize and understand that making it to the NHL is a very very very long shot for them. They may simply enjoy hockey at that level they play because they can get an NCAA scholarship, get a great education, and play with their buddies until they go to play at school.

Obviously if NHL teams show interest etc that is a different story, but I;m trying to use reason in how I would think.

If i had the potential to maybe make the OHL and be a decent player, or go NCAA on a partial or full scholarship realizing I was the absolute long shot at professional hockey, I think I would choose to have a great time with my friends and stay closer to home.

Alternatively there are people who would love to strap em on for even just one game.

Perhaps that is the reason behind some players motives. One example is Brandon Francisco of the Kitchener Rangers last season. He was used regularly on the 3rd line, but also a healthy scratch some nights and told the coaches this off season he wanted his release so he could go play in a lower league, have some more fun, get some more minutes. He isnt giving up his dream, but being realistic and looking at hockey as a passion and past time, not a career. He just wants to enjoy it. This is a player that at one point in his OHL career was regarded as a promising player.

Aside from this, I'd guess NCAA eligibility, size, attitude and overall desire to be a professional are reasons why some of the better Jr A players dont play CHL.


Last edited by ORYX: 09-06-2012 at 08:29 AM.
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09-06-2012, 10:16 AM
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Ward Cornell
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They may simply enjoy hockey at that level they play because they can get an NCAA scholarship, get a great education, and play with their buddies until they go to play at school.
One question that I've asked multiple times and haven't received an answer to is " just how many full ride NCAA scholarships is there available every year?"
I suspect for a lot of players who's holding out in playing in the CHL hoping for a full ride may be disappointed in the end when there isn't one available.

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09-06-2012, 10:22 AM
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One question that I've asked multiple times and haven't received an answer to is " just how many full ride NCAA scholarships is there available every year?"
I suspect for a lot of players who's holding out in playing in the CHL hoping for a full ride may be disappointed in the end when there isn't one available.
Im not sure of the numbers, but I don't suspect you hold out on the CHL unless you have offers on the table already.

You're right, not everyone in the junior ranks has this opportunity, but we are talking about the higher end talents that could be playing decent minutes in the CHL, that arent by virtue of their own choice.

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09-06-2012, 12:44 PM
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Im not sure of the numbers, but I don't suspect you hold out on the CHL unless you have offers on the table already.

You're right, not everyone in the junior ranks has this opportunity, but we are talking about the higher end talents that could be playing decent minutes in the CHL, that arent by virtue of their own choice.
Good discussion! From the perspective of a player I can tell you how my son feels.

He was not drafted this past April, was quite disappointed initially but bounced back admirably. I asked him if he still loved the game and was willing to continue to work hard to play at the highest level possible. He agreed and proved it this summer. We'll see about next summer.

Ultimately for many players there is no one moment in time where a kid decides CHL/OJHL/NCAA. If he is good enough next year to play OJHL he will continue to work at his game. Many kids develop at different rates, see Mark Jankowski as an example.

Given the NCAA propensity to sign older kids (at a camp in Connecticut this summer most NCAA coaches suggested 20 as a more standard entry age going forward) this avenue makes sense for the slower developing players.

Ultimately, I think it is positive for the kids that still really want it that there are different leagues out there in order for them to play this great game they love.

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10-11-2012, 08:58 AM
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I get the jist of potentially more exposure if they follow ncaa route after jr. a

Does anyone know the differences between ohl education packages?
OHL education packages are generally that for every year you play, you receive the equivalent amount of one year university tuition from the closest university to your home residence. So for example if a kid from Ottawa is drafted and plays in Peterborough, his annual education package would say be the amount it would cost to go to Carlton for a year. While playing in the OHL, the teams pay for classes and once they are done they have to start using their package within 18 months or they lose it.

NCAA is very dependent on how much they want you, how much money the team has for scholarships. Many people "say" they are getting a "full ride", but it may not be a 4 year ride and your scholarship can be revoked at any time. Many of the scholarships are not FULL and they are partial. Many of them draw from the sport, but then part of the scholarship dollars comes from other areas of the university. It really is a numbers game.

There are benefits and drawbacks to both. IMO as long as there is someone helping to pay for a kids educaion, then good for them!

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10-11-2012, 03:12 PM
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Torts
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OHL education packages are generally that for every year you play, you receive the equivalent amount of one year university tuition from the closest university to your home residence. So for example if a kid from Ottawa is drafted and plays in Peterborough, his annual education package would say be the amount it would cost to go to Carlton for a year. While playing in the OHL, the teams pay for classes and once they are done they have to start using their package within 18 months or they lose it.

NCAA is very dependent on how much they want you, how much money the team has for scholarships. Many people "say" they are getting a "full ride", but it may not be a 4 year ride and your scholarship can be revoked at any time. Many of the scholarships are not FULL and they are partial. Many of them draw from the sport, but then part of the scholarship dollars comes from other areas of the university. It really is a numbers game.

There are benefits and drawbacks to both. IMO as long as there is someone helping to pay for a kids educaion, then good for them!
I get scholarships, bunch of my boys are playing in the states right now on scholly's

its just there is a difference between gold level packages for OHL players and others, thats the difference I was wondering about

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