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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part IV (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

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Old
03-12-2012, 11:47 AM
  #301
FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Why do people repeat this idiocy.

If we let AK's contract expire, we would have then REALLY got nothing.
Very true. Thing is however that if we actually used Kostitsyn the right way (as a PP player and scorer instead of a third line grinder), nurtured his confidence and placed him in the right situation to produce then we could have likely re-signed him.

In the end its still true that we only got a 2nd rounder and a few games of Boyd for the two Kostitsyn brothers. Do people remember? We used to say ''lol no'' to trade proposals like ''Kostitsyn bros for Getzlaf'' in here. What a waste

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz
It sounds simplistic, but this is exactly the case. Our biggest problem on this team is passing, centers with creativity, and d-men with a first good pass. But instead of realizing this, they decided to trade away a talented player in AK, thinking he was the problem. Dumb, dumb, and dumber.
Did Kostitsyn ever even play with Desharnais? I have the suspicion they would have been good together.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Kostitsyn
Cole-Plekanec-Gionta

Hey thats an NHL top6!

Too bad Randy prefers to have all his non-slumping top6 players on the same line and have the scum of the earth play with Plekanec..

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Old
03-12-2012, 11:48 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
I'm not supporting the coach/GM... they're both gone at the end of the year so that's a moot point.

SK refused to report Hamilton multiple times and was not popular in the locker room. He had to go.

AK was given plenty of chances over the years and showed flashes of brilliance at times but just could not get over the hump and become a consistent top 6 winger we wanted him to be. Parting ways made sense for all parties involved.
Over what hump? Inconsistent linemates, defensive first styles that collapse to the front of the net are not ways to develop offensive players. Zero freedom as far as creativity, insist of defensive awareness or else you get the bench. Plenty on chances, except with the players he plays well with. Solid middle six winger, thats what he is. Accept it. Angry that he is not perfectly consistent top six (which would cost you big bux), but I saw consistent effort in his game, you expected consistent results. Better with than without.

Sergei, by the way lacked the direction that a management with leadership would have identified & rectified. Young guys need to be surrounded by people (not just players) to guided them. They do usually grow out of it, be our management would rather get rid of the problem rather than deal with it.
You want to get rid of inconsistent players, then next year I guess you want Bourque, Desharnais, Pleks, Gomer ( a given), Gionta, Eller, Moen, etc. I am getting tired of writing

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03-12-2012, 12:04 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
No point even continuing this conversation. Do you even know what "bash" means? I called the guy a 20 goal player who I wouldn't want on my team for $4M+ and yet I'm bashing him? Unreal.
True. No point at all. Especially that you concentrate on 1 word in an entire conversation to discard it. Okay, so you are not bashing him. You like him but not at that amount. Okay. Deal. Though calling a player "average" inconsistent", a player I wouldn't build my team around and such, don't look as if you are in love with the guy but anyway.....Again, though, how many 20-25 goals scorers are there in this league? And they are all average? And even if they'd be average for a great team....are they average for a team like us who are offensively challenged? But then...how much do 20-25 goal scorers in this league have to be paid nowaydays? And do we have the luxury in this team who is so low in goal scoring ability to not sign a guy like him? Do we have other guys ready to take the challenge? Is Leblanc your next 25-goal scorer as soon as next year? It's not like the guess would be that Kristo is already ready to take the challenge next year? Who else? Bourque will wake up? Gionta will be rejuvenated?

When the reason for not wanting a guy like him is based on a 4M+ on a salary cap of how much again, it means that you made a whole lot of other mistakes before. And we should find a way to not let our mistakes like Gomez and Co to provoke ANOTHER mistake by letting a guy like Kosty go.

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03-12-2012, 12:07 PM
  #304
Qui Gon Dave
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Did Kostitsyn ever even play with Desharnais? I have the suspicion they would have been good together.
Yep, they played (I think) one and a bit games together before being broken up. The one game they got together was against Buffalo IIRC and that line had a bunch of scoring chances, including AK making a behind the back pass to Patches to send him in on goal but his move didn't work. As a result of them creating scoring chances, they were broken up.

Last year AK and DD played together on the same PP unit as well and they had some success. Only center AK didn't mesh well with was Gomez and yet he played about half his games over the last 2 seasons on his wing.

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Old
03-12-2012, 12:19 PM
  #305
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Here's the deal with SK, AK, Latendresse, Higgins, Lapierre, etc...etc..

All of these guys are role players. They can play a focused simple role on whatever team they are.

Why is that? Because now they play on teams that have superior top level talent.

How does that affect their play? When you have elite players on the first line or a great top pairing defense, it draws ALOT of attention. When that happens, role players get alot more space on the ice and alot more confidence since they can play a more simple game.

Why could SK, AK, etc put it together here? Because we have no elite level skaters. So we expected them to play as top line players.

So really it's irrelevant to point at the success of players once they leave here. Had SK and AK gone to Columbus, they'd be as mediocre as they were here.

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03-12-2012, 12:35 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Here's the deal with SK, AK, Latendresse, Higgins, Lapierre, etc...etc..

All of these guys are role players. They can play a focused simple role on whatever team they are.

Why is that? Because now they play on teams that have superior top level talent.

How does that affect their play? When you have elite players on the first line or a great top pairing defense, it draws ALOT of attention. When that happens, role players get alot more space on the ice and alot more confidence since they can play a more simple game.

Why could SK, AK, etc put it together here? Because we have no elite level skaters. So we expected them to play as top line players.

So really it's irrelevant to point at the success of players once they leave here. Had SK and AK gone to Columbus, they'd be as mediocre as they were here.
Martin Erat?

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Old
03-12-2012, 12:45 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Why do people repeat this idiocy.

If we let AK's contract expire, we would have then REALLY got nothing.
Had we not traded him, we would have re-signed him, and so, not lose him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
True. No point at all. Especially that you concentrate on 1 word in an entire conversation to discard it. Okay, so you are not bashing him. You like him but not at that amount. Okay. Deal. Though calling a player "average" inconsistent", a player I wouldn't build my team around and such, don't look as if you are in love with the guy but anyway.....Again, though, how many 20-25 goals scorers are there in this league? And they are all average? And even if they'd be average for a great team....are they average for a team like us who are offensively challenged? But then...how much do 20-25 goal scorers in this league have to be paid nowaydays? And do we have the luxury in this team who is so low in goal scoring ability to not sign a guy like him? Do we have other guys ready to take the challenge? Is Leblanc your next 25-goal scorer as soon as next year? It's not like the guess would be that Kristo is already ready to take the challenge next year? Who else? Bourque will wake up? Gionta will be rejuvenated?

When the reason for not wanting a guy like him is based on a 4M+ on a salary cap of how much again, it means that you made a whole lot of other mistakes before. And we should find a way to not let our mistakes like Gomez and Co to provoke ANOTHER mistake by letting a guy like Kosty go.
Not sure you should bother with this poster. He will focus on a single word or sentence out of a long post, act like he's the victim of an accusation you're making, and if you keep making him look bad with solid arguments, he will put you on his Ignore List..

In any event, I think we should also not forget the fact AK clearly stated, on more than one occasion, that he wanted to remain a Habs, that he did not want to go to Nashville, and that he would agree to less money. Now, there's no way to know how much less, but still, it is an encouraging sign. We whine that others don't want to come here, and the ones that actually want to remain Habs, we move them.
Regardless of whether or not AK could have given more here, one thing is clear, Management could have treated AK a lot better too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Yep, they played (I think) one and a bit games together before being broken up. The one game they got together was against Buffalo IIRC and that line had a bunch of scoring chances, including AK making a behind the back pass to Patches to send him in on goal but his move didn't work. As a result of them creating scoring chances, they were broken up.

Last year AK and DD played together on the same PP unit as well and they had some success. Only center AK didn't mesh well with was Gomez and yet he played about half his games over the last 2 seasons on his wing.
I believe that sums up the type of player AK actually is. AK also looked great along side Lang and Koivu in earlier years. He's doing well in Nashville as well. The guy adapts to every single one of his centers. He can compliment a line well, like he did with Kovy-Plek or Cammy-Plek, or he can be the driving force, like he did this year along side Eller and Moen.
Gomez has been an anchor for everybody placed on his these past two years. Gionta, Plekanec, AK, Bourque, Moen, Cammy, Pouliot, Darche, White, Palushaj, and others, have all looked bad when placed along his wings. There have been the occasional good games, but overall, it's always been bad. DD with him and Gionta did look good in the POs, except that was short lived due to an injury to DD after a game, so we don't know if they would have actually kept it up.

Despite it all, AK never complained. When journalists asked him about his ''struggles'', he always mentioned he needed more ice time. Never mentioned his linemates. He also proved to be right every time he said that. As soon as he got more ice time, he played better.

People have painted AK as an enigma over his years. But seriously, I think he's probably one of the most simple players to coach. If you actually watched him without bias, you could see he would respond to whatever the coach was telling him to do because changes in his game were obvious. That's not really how a lazy, uninterested and tough to coach player would respond.

So, he never complained, he improved his two way game by plenty, and easily adapted to every single center he's had over the years, outside one as you pointed out.

If I were in his shoes, I'd have asked to be traded, not say I want to be here and re-signed for cheap. I think it says a lot about his character.

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Old
03-12-2012, 12:54 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Here's the deal with SK, AK, Latendresse, Higgins, Lapierre, etc...etc..

All of these guys are role players. They can play a focused simple role on whatever team they are.

Why is that? Because now they play on teams that have superior top level talent.

How does that affect their play? When you have elite players on the first line or a great top pairing defense, it draws ALOT of attention. When that happens, role players get alot more space on the ice and alot more confidence since they can play a more simple game.

Why could SK, AK, etc put it together here? Because we have no elite level skaters. So we expected them to play as top line players.

So really it's irrelevant to point at the success of players once they leave here. Had SK and AK gone to Columbus, they'd be as mediocre as they were here.
What are you talking about?
Lappy and Higgins, perhaps.
But Ribs in Dallas is their driving offensive force, along side Ryder and Ericsson.
In Nashville, you have guys like Erat, Legwand, Hornqvist, guys that probably also wouldn't have been good enough to play here but do a heck of a job in Nashville. I also forgot, their #1 Center is Mike freaking Fisher. That's right, Mike ''I scored more than 50pts (53) once in my 12year career'' Fisher.
What happened to Lats is absolutely unfortunate. But he provided very good 2nd line scoring in Minny before his injuries.

Nobody expected these guys to be the driving force of our offense here. We thought they could provide secondary scoring, which is exactly what they're doing on their respective teams (obviously not speaking of Lappy).

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Old
03-12-2012, 01:07 PM
  #309
lou4gehrig
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Originally Posted by habsfan92 View Post
Martin Erat?
Give me a break. Nashville's skaters far in a way exceed our own.

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Old
03-12-2012, 01:21 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Give me a break. Nashville's skaters far in a way exceed our own.
And this is your response? At least if you want to prove a point, take the time to explain.

LOL

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Old
03-12-2012, 01:28 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Give me a break. Nashville's skaters far in a way exceed our own.
It's "far and away", not "far in a way". Another common mistake I see here is people writing "should of" instead of "should have". I guess I should just accept that the average hockey fan isn't necessarily a fan of good grammar and spelling.

Anyway, Nashville has much better D-men, but they really have little scoring depth on paper compared to Montreal (at least what Montreal looked like on paper at the start of the season). Nashville is simply a better organization with stronger player development, asset management and coaching than Montreal.

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03-12-2012, 02:35 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Very true. Thing is however that if we actually used Kostitsyn the right way (as a PP player and scorer instead of a third line grinder), nurtured his confidence and placed him in the right situation to produce then we could have likely re-signed him.

In the end its still true that we only got a 2nd rounder and a few games of Boyd for the two Kostitsyn brothers. Do people remember? We used to say ''lol no'' to trade proposals like ''Kostitsyn bros for Getzlaf'' in here. What a waste



Did Kostitsyn ever even play with Desharnais? I have the suspicion they would have been good together.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Kostitsyn
Cole-Plekanec-Gionta

Hey thats an NHL top6!

Too bad Randy prefers to have all his non-slumping top6 players on the same line and have the scum of the earth play with Plekanec..
This !

Gauthier, Martin (and Cunneyworth) were counting a lot on Cammy and Gomez to be part of this top-six, pushing AK down to the third automatically. They failed and Gionta was injured long time ago now. Using Plekanec on the point during PP was another killer.

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03-12-2012, 02:58 PM
  #313
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If any two of the Habs fans want to see SK/AK in the playoffs let me know. I'm a season ticket holder, live in Nashville, but presently working in Texas and won't be able to attend all of the playoff games. Section 106, Row P, seats 7 & 8. Located between center red line and attack twice zone blue line. Last row of lower level so you can stand up and watch the game if you get tired of sitting. You get down here and you can have them - southern hospitality at its' best.

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03-12-2012, 03:19 PM
  #314
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Captain Koivu playing his 1000th game today.
Congratulations for him! Always imagined he would play his career in Montreal... The guy was all class act.

I'm quite sorry for the Habs fans for losing him. It makes me sad that they let Gomez use his number quite soon after Koivu had left the team. Wish the managment would have honored him as much as the fans. Used to love Habs but since that day they have been somewhat lost and I lost my respect of the managment. Nowadays I rarely cheer for them. Maybe I was just a Koivu fan . Well now I haven't been following him that much after he moved to the Ducks. Their team really doesn't interest me that much.

Once I hoped he would retire in Montreal but now... the only reason he would retire there would be for the fans.

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03-12-2012, 05:14 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
All of these guys are role players. They can play a focused simple role on whatever team they are.

Why is that? Because now they play on teams that have superior top level talent.

How does that affect their play? When you have elite players on the first line or a great top pairing defense, it draws ALOT of attention. When that happens, role players get alot more space on the ice and alot more confidence since they can play a more simple game.

Why could SK, AK, etc put it together here? Because we have no elite level skaters. So we expected them to play as top line players.I can't believe people actually mean it.
Seriously? Every player is a role-player that's why we have centers, D-s, goalies and wings. How is that the player's fault that management of Nashville can get the team organized and Habs can't? They can offer a better coach and better atmosphere and Montreal can't. Nashville took "cancer" in Montreal dressing room and converted him to very disciplined solid young-talents which is now part of superior level talent.

Couple months ago my wife told me that a lady working with her got fired and she doesn't feel safe anymore. So I've asked her what was wrong and why she got fired. "Was she not doing her job?" - I asked
"No, she was doing her job, but the company is always behind the schedule and when she was asked to do extras she refused" My wife told me.
It didn't make any sense to me. To me if the lady was doing her job and company was behind you could point blaming finger on
1) Other workers who don't do their job
2) Management who are cheap and don't wanna hire more people.
This lady is not a problem. No possible way. She is the temporary fix in a broken system.

Shooters/finishers are most dependable players on the ice and they need passer. It's like hiring a carpenter and tell him he won't get any wood for his project, and later blame him for not getting the job done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
So really it's irrelevant to point at the success of players once they leave here. Had SK and AK gone to Columbus, they'd be as mediocre as they were here.
You assuming that. The fact is that Carter (the player that should be picked before Andrei according to some) totally failed there. And was whining his way out like a little girl.
Mediocre you say?

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03-12-2012, 05:57 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
True. No point at all. Especially that you concentrate on 1 word in an entire conversation to discard it. Okay, so you are not bashing him. You like him but not at that amount. Okay. Deal. Though calling a player "average" inconsistent", a player I wouldn't build my team around and such, don't look as if you are in love with the guy but anyway.....Again, though, how many 20-25 goals scorers are there in this league? And they are all average? And even if they'd be average for a great team....are they average for a team like us who are offensively challenged? But then...how much do 20-25 goal scorers in this league have to be paid nowaydays? And do we have the luxury in this team who is so low in goal scoring ability to not sign a guy like him? Do we have other guys ready to take the challenge? Is Leblanc your next 25-goal scorer as soon as next year? It's not like the guess would be that Kristo is already ready to take the challenge next year? Who else? Bourque will wake up? Gionta will be rejuvenated?

When the reason for not wanting a guy like him is based on a 4M+ on a salary cap of how much again, it means that you made a whole lot of other mistakes before. And we should find a way to not let our mistakes like Gomez and Co to provoke ANOTHER mistake by letting a guy like Kosty go.
When was the last time AK scored 25 goals 07-08 (Scott Gomez got 70pts that year)? AK was a 12 goal scorer with this team. Whether he played less minutes or was benched or whatever. The guy scored 12 goals this year. There are about 160 players who have scored more than that. 106 players scored at least 20 goals last year. Again, I don't quite understand all the crying over a one-dimensional player who shows up every 5 games.

How will the Habs replace AK's goals? Well, Cole was added in the offseason (25 goals). Pacioretty looks to be a 35-40 goal guy. DD is good for 15. We also didn't have Gio here all season. Gomez will be off the team and his production will be replaced and then some. Eller should improve upon his 14 or so goals from this year. Then you add in Leblanc for 10 or so. You'll get a few extra from Markov and there's also PK. Emelin will get better as well.

It will not be difficult to replace the 12 goals AK scored this year. But lets also look at the goals AK contributed to as well. His mental lapses have contributed to goals against....but that's neither here nor there.

Again, the guy was a UFA, the team needs to give guys like Max, PK, Price some rather lengthy contracts. They have Gomez contract (who knows if he'll be bought out, kept or sent down). You also have Kaberle's contract. Maybe the team has plays of taking a run at Parise and/or Suter. I don't see an issue with trading him.

And to that Kriss E guy. Nice personal attack there. I would expect nothing less from you.

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03-12-2012, 07:19 PM
  #317
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...739/story.html

Saku, what a legend.

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03-12-2012, 07:34 PM
  #318
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Saku is a UFA this summer... Would you guys offer him a contract?

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03-12-2012, 07:40 PM
  #319
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I wouldnt sign him back, i just think it would be a step backwards.

Lets move forward.

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03-12-2012, 07:43 PM
  #320
Et le But
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I mean if we ship off Plekanec for draft picks or whatever like everyone here wants to, Saku might be nice to have around. I'd love for him to retire a Hab, though I just don't see it happening at this point.

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03-12-2012, 07:46 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I mean if we ship off Plekanec for draft picks or whatever like everyone here wants to, Saku might be nice to have around. I'd love for him to retire a Hab, though I just don't see it happening at this point.
Lets ship off one of the best defensive forwards for picks and sign Koivu.....
hahaha.
kidding right?

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03-12-2012, 07:51 PM
  #322
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I don't understand this AK outrage. He's always been streaky. He will not score like this over the long term. He never did, over multiple NHL seasons and multiple coaches. He is what he is. It's like you guys never watched him play before or something. All this crying over former players is ridiculous... AK a 40 goal scorer? Lats, a guy who hasn't played in 2 years cause he was too fat to skate without blowing out his groin, a power forward?

Every team let's talent go. Carolina is probably wishing they didn't lose Cole for nothing too.

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03-12-2012, 07:54 PM
  #323
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I wouldnt sign him back, i just think it would be a step backwards.

Lets move forward.
To be fair, you're posting in a thread full of people whining about players we lost that are doing well elsewhere... Of anyone mentioned Koivu's a guy we missed out on most, especially when you consider we replaced him with Gomez.

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03-12-2012, 07:58 PM
  #324
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To be fair, you're posting in a thread full of people whining about players we lost that are doing well elsewhere... Of anyone mentioned Koivu's a guy we missed out on most, especially when you consider we replaced him with Gomez.
I dont care. Next year is 2012/13 and I would rather build from within than start bringing back the likes of Koivu.
I didnt get rid of him and u can bet the management team that did is not bringing him back so lets move on.

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03-12-2012, 08:11 PM
  #325
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Lets ship off one of the best defensive forwards for picks and sign Koivu.....
hahaha.
kidding right?
I have no interest in seeing them ship off Plekanec, but a lot of people do. I'm just saying if they do for some insane reason, bringing back Koivu for a year to teach the young Cs wouldn't be the worst move we could make.

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