Apples and oranges....in '81-'82 (the year Gretz got 92) the habs had five 30 goal players with Lafleur just missing with 27 goals in 66 games.
different game than that of today.
...not to knock anything Gretz did. He was the best!
Oh I agree.....Just pointing out the obvious.
I just wonder if you put Gretzky in his prime today against the goalies today how many goals would he score.
You look at the goalies back then they were all stand up goalies.
Be a big difference i bet.
And looking at last years list not a very good indication of team ability anyway. Some pretty bad teams like NYI, Toronto (who didn't make the playoffs) and Anahiem (who didn't deserve to be in the playoffs).
Two 30 goal men usually just means you have a single good offensive line. Which is hardly the most important thing for winning. Especially since you can inflate offensive numbers in this league by not caring so much about defense, which is often the case for good scorers on bad teams.
And looking at last years list not a very good indication of team ability anyway. Some pretty bad teams like NYI, Toronto (who didn't make the playoffs) and Anahiem (who didn't deserve to be in the playoffs).
Two 30 goal men usually just means you have a single good offensive line. Which is hardly the most important thing for winning. Especially since you can inflate offensive numbers in this league by not caring so much about defense, which is often the case for good scorers on bad teams.
Well Cole and Pacioretty are pretty good defensive players (probably our 2 best defensive wingers actually) but I get what you mean. Kind of a shame to have one of the best tough minutes winger combo in the east and not even use them like that.
And looking at last years list not a very good indication of team ability anyway. Some pretty bad teams like NYI, Toronto (who didn't make the playoffs) and Anahiem (who didn't deserve to be in the playoffs).
Two 30 goal men usually just means you have a single good offensive line. Which is hardly the most important thing for winning. Especially since you can inflate offensive numbers in this league by not caring so much about defense, which is often the case for good scorers on bad teams.
Dude, it is sad and it's not rare.
Off the top of my head, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Tampa, Detroit, Toronto, Atlanta, SJ, Boston, Buffalo, Islanders, LA, Ottawa... have all done it since we've last done it. Pretty sure that if you'd look up who's done this since we last did it there wouldn't be too many clubs who haven't been able to do this.
Off the top of my head, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Tampa, Detroit, Toronto, Atlanta, SJ, Boston, Buffalo, Islanders, LA, Ottawa... have all done it since we've last done it. Pretty sure that if you'd look up who's done this since we last did it there wouldn't be too many clubs who haven't been able to do this.
Yeah, it's pretty freakin' sad.
But looking at the amount of bad teams that have done it and the good teams that haven't should tell you about how important that kind of thing actually is. Its something more for people who like seeing their guys at the top of the counting stats lists more than something that really tells you if you have a good team or not.
But looking at the amount of bad teams that have done it and the good teams that haven't should tell you about how important that kind of thing actually is. Its something more for people who like seeing their guys at the top of the counting stats lists more than something that really tells you if you have a good team or not.
Dude... what good teams haven't done this? Please tell me because the only team I can think of that hasn't managed to do this would be Columbus and they only came into the league ten years ago.
Whenever you measure us in terms of offense vs. other clubs it's an ugly story. No top ten scorers since 86... only team in the league that existed back then to not be able to do this. No 100 point scorers since then either.
When you consider our team and the resources we have there's just no excuse for this.
Dude... what good teams haven't done this? Please tell me because the only team I can think of that hasn't managed to do this would be Columbus and they only came into the league ten years ago.
Whenever you measure us in terms of offense vs. other clubs it's an ugly story. No top ten scorers since 86... only team in the league that existed back then to not be able to do this. No 100 point scorers since then either.
When you consider our team and the resources we have there's just no excuse for this.
On a season to season basis I mean. Having 2 30 goal scorers really doesn't mean much for how well your year did.
And I think you obsess too much over top-scorers. They're really nice to have but they aren't the be all end all on building a team.
On a season to season basis I mean. Having 2 30 goal scorers really doesn't mean much for how well your year did.
And yet, we're the only club that's not able to do this. I wonder why our record has sucked since the late 90s?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts
And I think you obsess too much over top-scorers. They're really nice to have but they aren't the be all end all on building a team.
No elite scorers and no scoring depth. That's what we've seen on our club.
First you tell me that it's rare to have two 30 goal men on your team and that it never happens.
Then you tell me that it only happens for bad teams.
Then when I show you that almost everyone has managed this except us, you try to diminish it's importance.
Dude, it is important. That's why we've had the record that we do since 1995. It's sad. You need to be able to score to win. It's bad enough we don't have top scorers but not not even be able to manage one season where we've had two 30 goal scorers since the mid 90s is a disgrace. And it's even more of a disgrace when you consider that we're the freaking Montreal Canadiens.
As for it not being important on a season by season basis, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of cup winners had at least two 30 goal scorers in their lineup when they won the cup. I'm just guessing and haven't looked it up, but I'd be curious if that was the case. I suspect it would be.
And yet, we're the only club that's not able to do this. I wonder why our record has sucked since the late 90s?
No elite scorers and no scoring depth. That's what we've seen on our club.
First you tell me that it's rare to have two 30 goal men on your team and that it never happens.
Then you tell me that it only happens for bad teams.
Then when I show you that almost everyone has managed this except us, you try to diminish it's importance.
Dude, it is important. That's why we've had the record that we do since 1995. It's sad. You need to be able to score to win. It's bad enough we don't have top scorers but not not even be able to manage one season where we've had two 30 goal scorers since the mid 90s is a disgrace. And it's even more of a disgrace when you consider that we're the freaking Montreal Canadiens.
As for it not being important on a season by season basis, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of cup winners had at least two 30 goal scorers in their lineup when they won the cup. I'm just guessing and haven't looked it up, but I'd be curious if that was the case. I suspect it would be.
I never said it only happens to bad teams. I said that when it does happen it doesn't correlate well with having a good one. A Stanley Cup winner will probably have that but a Stanley Cup winner will probably also have a lot of other good things.
The point is to think more in terms of overall team performance rather that individual counting stats. When you can build a really good offensive team through depth scoring, whether you have a couple of guys lighting it up really isn't that important.
Shouldn't you think its a little significant that they're managing this feat in their worst season in the standings?
Having a good collection of overall talent is more important that a couple great players. And two-way ability counts for more than racking up points. A lot of years there are guys like Lupul and Kessel this season who are getting great looking point totals but it hardly matter for their team because they are giving up just as much the other way.
I never said it only happens to bad teams. I said that when it does happen it doesn't correlate well with having a good one. A Stanley Cup winner will probably have that but a Stanley Cup winner will probably also have a lot of other good things.
The point is to think more in terms of overall team performance rather that individual counting stats. When you can build a really good offensive team through depth scoring, whether you have a couple of guys lighting it up really isn't that important.
Shouldn't you think its a little significant that they're managing this feat in their worst season in the standings?
Having a good collection of overall talent is more important that a couple great players. And two-way ability counts for more than racking up points.
I don't understand why you're trying to frame it as either/or. Why do I have to choose between the two? And wouldn't having two guys who can pot 30 goals make for a better team?
I see this as pretty pathetic man. You think it's no big deal... okay. But again, pretty much every other team has been able to do this except us.
Off the top of my head, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Tampa, Detroit, Toronto, Atlanta, SJ, Boston, Buffalo, Islanders, LA, Ottawa... have all done it since we've last done it. Pretty sure that if you'd look up who's done this since we last did it there wouldn't be too many clubs who haven't been able to do this.
Yeah, it's pretty freakin' sad.
So what? We could do it this year and we're last in the East.
I don't understand why you're trying to frame it as either/or. Why do I have to choose between the two? And wouldn't having two guys who can pot 30 goals make for a better team?
I see this as pretty pathetic man. You think it's no big deal... okay. But again, pretty much every other team has been able to do this except us.
I think if they weren't able to find a starting goalie, or a number one defenseman or strong two-way centermen it would be a way bigger deal than how well they were doing in finding 30 goal men. In many cases those 30 goal scorers were built by running a team's offense through a couple guys while the rest of the lineup does the spade work. Which is a bit of what's happened in Montreal this year.
They've been able to build good scoring depth at points and thrown it away. That's way more concerning to my line of thinking. They were really well set on that to start this year with a reliable 20 goal man in Kostitsyn as the 5th winger. If Montreal is going to get good offensively they'll need to get back to that.
They have most of the personal they need to be a good 5 on 5, power play and penalty kill team. Get to that point and you'll have a contender, it doesn't really matter if its through a transcendental talent or just a bunch of relatively good players.
Combine the 5 on 5 game they had to end last year or start this one with the penalty kill and a good powerplay and Montreal can run as good of a squad as any in the East.
And yet, we're the only club that's not able to do this. I wonder why our record has sucked since the late 90s?
No elite scorers and no scoring depth. That's what we've seen on our club.
First you tell me that it's rare to have two 30 goal men on your team and that it never happens.
Then you tell me that it only happens for bad teams.
Then when I show you that almost everyone has managed this except us, you try to diminish it's importance.
Dude, it is important. That's why we've had the record that we do since 1995. It's sad. You need to be able to score to win. It's bad enough we don't have top scorers but not not even be able to manage one season where we've had two 30 goal scorers since the mid 90s is a disgrace. And it's even more of a disgrace when you consider that we're the freaking Montreal Canadiens.
As for it not being important on a season by season basis, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of cup winners had at least two 30 goal scorers in their lineup when they won the cup. I'm just guessing and haven't looked it up, but I'd be curious if that was the case. I suspect it would be.
You realize that the year it looks like it will happen will be our worst season over that span? It helps but its hardly critical to a season
So what? We could do it this year and we're last in the East.
Wonderful. It's still sad that it's taken us this long to be able to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts
I think if they weren't able to find a starting goalie, or a number one defenseman or strong two-way centermen it would be a way bigger deal than how well they were doing in finding 30 goal men. In many cases those 30 goal scorers were built by running a team's offense through a couple guys while the rest of the lineup does the spade work. Which is a bit of what's happened in Montreal this year.
They've been able to build good scoring depth at points and thrown it away. That's way more concerning to my line of thinking. They were really well set on that to start this year with a reliable 20 goal man in Kostitsyn as the 5th winger. If Montreal is going to get good offensively they'll need to get back to that.
They have most of the personal they need to be a good 5 on 5, power play and penalty kill team. Get to that point and you'll have a contender, it doesn't really matter if its through a transcendental talent or just a bunch of relatively good players.
Combine the 5 on 5 game they had to end last year or start this one with the penalty kill and a good powerplay and Montreal can run as good of a squad as any in the East.
We aren't talking about starting goalies or defensemen or anything of the kind. We're talking about our inability to ice two 30 goal scorers in almost two decades. Personally, I think it's sad. Not sure why you now are trying to change the conversation to something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs
You realize that the year it looks like it will happen will be our worst season over that span? It helps but its hardly critical to a season
It's still pathetic that it took us this long to be able to do it.
