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Old
03-12-2012, 09:11 PM
  #1
MountainHawk
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Potential Rule Changes

According to LeBrun (http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...eakaway-groups), there are a couple of changes that might have some support to get passed this summer.

The big one is hybrid icing, where the race is to the dots instead of the puck. I think I could live with that.

Another one that is news to me is a penalty for a defensive zone hand pass. That seems extreme, just ban it like it is in the rest of the rink, and maybe a no-change rule like icing.

Doesn't sound like there would be enough support for removing the red line, removing the trapezoid, or allowing the bear hug, all which I am glad if they do change.

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03-12-2012, 09:29 PM
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So penalize for everything? So tired of special teams that screws flow of the game. How about making the ice just a little bigger instead? Not Olympic size but just a little bigger and increase size behind the net and increase o-sive and d-sive zones. 2-3 feet increase behind the net will provide a lot of scoring and dangerous scoring chances.

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03-12-2012, 09:29 PM
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Stop tinkering with rules that are not safety related. Hand pass penalty sounds awful

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03-12-2012, 09:31 PM
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Hybrid icing sounds good: if the puck travels past the goal line and the defenseman can outrace the forward to the faceoff dot, it's good enough to secure the icing. However, a simple race is much more of a judgement call than stick contact on the puck, even though the latter is not an exact science.

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03-12-2012, 09:33 PM
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orangecrush8
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One of my biggest complaints has always been allowing hand passes in the defensive zone. Making the jump all the way to a penalty is ridiculous. Like you stated, they just should just blow it dead like in every other area of the ice.

These rules always seem to be revolved around offense, so I would propose not allowing teams to ice the puck when shorthanded. Why reward a team to violate a rule when they have been called for an infraction? Seems contradictory to me.

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03-12-2012, 09:47 PM
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GKJ
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Hand pass is an interesting one. Hockey is supposed to be played with a stick. Not sure I agree with a penalty, but I see the intrigue.

New icing rule is so far past due. I don't get why GMs want the red line put back in as a 'safety concern' but have been so apprehensive with changing icing, which has far greater safety consequences.

If people want the red line back in for safety concerns, pull up a 'Scott Stevens Hits' video on YouTube, and tell me how many were as a result of a player having to wait to make sure he wasn't in violation of a 2-line pass. Players having to be cautions of the red line would cause more concussions, not less.

And also, as with taking out the red line, teams caught up. So in 7 years, when teams catch up again to having the red line back in, are we going to take it out again? You took it out, just leave it out.

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03-12-2012, 09:49 PM
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I don't have a problem with glove passes in the defensive zone, nor with the time-honoured PK practice of icing the puck. Not necessarily a rule change, but the NHL could put the onus on calling players who catch and hold the puck for 1-2 seconds for delay of game. There was a play in the Edmonton - San Jose game where Ben Eager caught a puck flipped slowly in the neutral zone, took half a stride and tossed the puck forward to break between the two Oiler defenders. It used to be that you could barely snag a puck and put in on the ice in one motion.

Another "change" would be to encourage goaltenders to play the puck rather than cover it without pressure. Yes, it's a subjective call, but if a goalie continuously ignores keeping a puck in play when no opponent is nearby, give him a DoG.

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03-12-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
One of my biggest complaints has always been allowing hand passes in the defensive zone. Making the jump all the way to a penalty is ridiculous. Like you stated, they just should just blow it dead like in every other area of the ice.
I think it would be counterproductive. If you've had a long shift and left out because of an icing, on the face off, you just fall on the puck and get a stoppage. You'd get too many stoppages. At the end of games, you'd have defenders trying to go after pucks to make hand passes to get stoppages and disrupt plays. If you're taking out hand passes, the only thing to do is make it a penalty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
These rules always seem to be revolved around offense, so I would propose not allowing teams to ice the puck when shorthanded. Why reward a team to violate a rule when they have been called for an infraction? Seems contradictory to me.
I'm not against this.

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03-13-2012, 07:22 AM
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I'm not a fan of the hybrid icing rule proposal, perhaps I just don't understand it enough.

All it does is eliminate mathematically 50% of the opportunity for injury while ignoring the rest.

The race to the puck only stops at the dot if the defensive team gets to the dot first, what happens if the offensive team does? The race continues. What about a virtual tie, or if the players are still very dangerously positioned? What if one player lets up entirely at the dot clipping the other to wipe out?

Surely the player who 'wins' isnt going to just let the other guy take the puck and will continue hard to it, as will the other. Icing may have been negated but both players are still rushing in to bring the puck out.

If I had my way there would need to be sufficient distance between the two racing players, otherwise I don't see this rule change doing much. Perhaps others could try and shed some sense into this, I just don't see the benefits.

Changing the hand glove thing to a 2-min penalty? Give me break. I agree with the other poster, if you change it just make it a faceoff and no line change. Would they call a penalty if the opposition touched it first following the hand pass, or would the hand pass regardless of who recovers it draw a penalty?

I don't like when they dick around with rules that have little or no effect on the game as it stands just to tinker. You want to save injuries? Take the trapazoid out to allow goalies to play the puck, that alone will eliminate a number of races into the corner, couple that with the hybrid rule and you wont see many injuries I wouldnt think.

Change for the sake of change in the NHL is getting really old.

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03-13-2012, 10:47 AM
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ive played in a league with hybrid icing and really enjoyed. i was much more comfortable going all out in the race for the "touch up". i am a big advocate of "stop changing the rules every 5min" but this one literally has no effect on the play at all. there is still a race for the puck and if the defenseman lets up it is waved off.

we have seen the effects of losing a franchise defenseman this year. i would hate to see our next pronger go down for a long time for something as arbitrary as an icing touch up.

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03-13-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
I'm not a fan of the hybrid icing rule proposal, perhaps I just don't understand it enough.

All it does is eliminate mathematically 50% of the opportunity for injury while ignoring the rest.

The race to the puck only stops at the dot if the defensive team gets to the dot first, what happens if the offensive team does? The race continues. What about a virtual tie, or if the players are still very dangerously positioned? What if one player lets up entirely at the dot clipping the other to wipe out?

Surely the player who 'wins' isnt going to just let the other guy take the puck and will continue hard to it, as will the other. Icing may have been negated but both players are still rushing in to bring the puck out.

If I had my way there would need to be sufficient distance between the two racing players, otherwise I don't see this rule change doing much. Perhaps others could try and shed some sense into this, I just don't see the benefits.

Changing the hand glove thing to a 2-min penalty? Give me break. I agree with the other poster, if you change it just make it a faceoff and no line change. Would they call a penalty if the opposition touched it first following the hand pass, or would the hand pass regardless of who recovers it draw a penalty?

I don't like when they dick around with rules that have little or no effect on the game as it stands just to tinker. You want to save injuries? Take the trapazoid out to allow goalies to play the puck, that alone will eliminate a number of races into the corner, couple that with the hybrid rule and you wont see many injuries I wouldnt think.

Change for the sake of change in the NHL is getting really old.
Having played with hybrid icing for several seasons, it is infinitely better. Your question of what happens if the offense gets to the dot first? Icing is negated. Tie goes to the D (I think, not 100% sure). The reason it stops collisions if it is negated is because players no longer go full-balls into the boards to reach the puck. Once at the dot, they slow down and engage each other so as to get the puck in the end. Look at any dump and chase where they both are at equal standing at the dot. Each player slows down, because touching the puck is not the most crucial thing (as it is during touch up icing).

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03-13-2012, 10:57 AM
  #12
ORYX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersCup08 View Post
Having played with hybrid icing for several seasons, it is infinitely better. Your question of what happens if the offense gets to the dot first? Icing is negated. Tie goes to the D (I think, not 100% sure). The reason it stops collisions if it is negated is because players no longer go full-balls into the boards to reach the puck. Once at the dot, they slow down and engage each other so as to get the puck in the end. Look at any dump and chase where they both are at equal standing at the dot. Each player slows down, because touching the puck is not the most crucial thing (as it is during touch up icing).
I get that, but battling for positioning is what causes the wipeouts and injuries, not the speed. Players never get hurt going full tilt into the boards unless they have there feet taken out from under them, even if they are slowing down, you lose an edge shouldering with someone and you are still likely to injure a shoulder or leg going hard into the boards.

I've never seen it played, I'll have to youtube it some, I just don't think the rationale of 'Having extra time' to brace for impact is a sufficient argument being thrown out by supporting GM's.

Not to mention the number of blown hybrid icings that have lead to goals. I've heard this is frequent in NCAA.

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03-13-2012, 11:02 AM
  #13
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I like the hybrid icing rule.

I'd also be for the elimination of the trapezoid. Allow goalies to play the puck, but make it a penalty 100% of the time they cover it outside of the crease. I know it supposed to be a penallty, but I've seen it happen without being called.

Also, I wish they'd call diving a lot more. Even if the officials don't catch it live, they should be able to fine and in extreme cases suspend someone for constant diving. That Volchenkov dive when Talbot tapped him on the ankle Sunday night was a joke.

The other rule I absolutely hate is the automatic slashing penalty for a broken stick. It's pretty much taken the stick check out of the game.

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03-13-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Hand pass is an interesting one. Hockey is supposed to be played with a stick. Not sure I agree with a penalty, but I see the intrigue.
So when your stick breaks, what do you do? Skate off the ice?


Last edited by Kaktus*: 03-13-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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03-13-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerSithLord View Post

I'd also be for the elimination of the trapezoid. Allow goalies to play the puck, but make it a penalty 100% of the time they cover it outside of the crease. I know it supposed to be a penallty, but I've seen it happen without being called.
This is not a rule. Goalies are not allowed to cover the puck up outside of an invisible box that is established by the endzone dots. In fact, they are allowed to cover it in the trapezoid (just can't stickhandle). And yes, if a goalie covers it outside of the "privileged area", it is a penalty, called 100% of the time.

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03-13-2012, 11:10 AM
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Sick of the rule changes. The lockout ruined how the sport was intended to be played with all of the clutch and grab rules and the inability to be allowed to clear the crease. The league just cares about more goals since obviously more = more excitement The only rules I loved were getting rid of 2 line pass, penalized for the puck over the glass, and being penalized for icing the puck by maintaining the same players on the ice. Hate the trapezoid, just looks stupid and rarely does a goalie ever go in there while discouraging puck playing goalies. Also the ease a which penalties are called just encourages flopping, diving, and exaggerating to drawl penalties.

Handpass in defensive zone a penalty? No, you've already given offenses huge advantages by not allowing defensemen to basically be defensemen in that they can't clear the crease, so now players just plop in front of the goaltender and can't be touched. Also as already mentioned, when you break your stick your now even more useless then presently without the use of your hands. Leave it alone its not a problem.

Hybrid icing... meh. Head injuries have only been a catastrophic type since post lockout since players can't police themselves anymore with the crack down on fighting, third man in rule (established before the lockout) ect. ect. Now players fear no retribution when laying out a big hit (Kromwall is the perfect example, clean hit, however might have thought twice if he had any reason to worry about getting his ass beat the next shift.) It's not that players had more respect for each other when players like Clarke played, its that they knew Shultz, Saleski, Dupont, ect. would be mercilessly beating them the rest of the game if they attempted any shenanigans. Its not just icing it's hits in general, players don't know what the suspension punishments are since they have been so inconsistent and they have no fear of a penalty (sometimes) or players on the opposing team.

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03-13-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersCup08 View Post
This is not a rule. Goalies are not allowed to cover the puck up outside of an invisible box that is established by the endzone dots. In fact, they are allowed to cover it in the trapezoid (just can't stickhandle). And yes, if a goalie covers it outside of the "privileged area", it is a penalty, called 100% of the time.
Are you sure about the trapezoid? Either way, it should be just in the crease.

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03-13-2012, 11:14 AM
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Hearing "no hand pass in def zone" proposal has been set aside for further study. Will not be a recommendation coming out of this meeting.

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03-13-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerSithLord View Post
Are you sure about the trapezoid? Either way, it should be just in the crease.

Quote:
Official Rules Under Other Fouls:

If a goalkeeper comes out of his crease to “cut down the angle” on a shot and after making the save covers the puck, this shall be legal. If the goalkeeper races out of his crease in an attempt to beat the attacking player to the puck and instead of playing the puck jumps on the puck causing a stoppage of play, this shall be a minor penalty for delay of game.
this is more/less what I'm talking about.

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03-13-2012, 11:37 AM
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Icing is just a waste of time most of the time. I'm down for hybrid. get rid of the trapezoid. it sucks.

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03-13-2012, 11:47 AM
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Pierre Gauthier says there's very little support today for removing the trapezoid or the return of the red line. Neither will happen.

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03-13-2012, 11:47 AM
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I feel like the league is going through a mid-life crisis.

When was the last time any other major sports league changed rules of the game?

NFL moved the kick-off forward. Did Basketball get rid of travelling yet so people like me can play?

I feel like the NHL just makes these 'subtle' changes for the sake of it.

And I agree with Mike Richards tweet "Why is it that GM's get to make all the rule changes but the players get little say?"

I agree with him, these proposed rule changes should be made and proposed in a cross departmental style meeting where you have player reps and GM reps talking and brining idea's back to their sides. Otherwise you just have a bunch of guys who havent played the game in 20 years deciding whats best for its future simply by watching and not involving themselves in the actual plays etc.

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03-13-2012, 11:57 AM
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Changing rules should not be taken lightly. These things can add up to having big effects on the way the game is played, event if they seem small or no brainers at first. I mean, removing clutch and grab I think was an overall positive (minus the trend to start over calling penalties), but that has undoubtedly caused an increase in injuries as guys are flying around at high speeds at all times out there. Not saying I would repeal that particular mandate, but if we had known that player safety would be jepordized with the increased speed, would we have approached that differently?

We've seen a lot of changes over the past 10 years and I think unless theres direct proof of improving player safety or a complete no brainer, we should let things simmer a bit before making more changes.

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03-13-2012, 12:10 PM
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Hybrid icing was approved today.

They just need to clear up the language.

This took far too long to put into the game.

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03-13-2012, 03:51 PM
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[QUOTE=ORYX;45993249]I get that, but battling for positioning is what causes the wipeouts and injuries, not the speed. Players never get hurt going full tilt into the boards unless they have there feet taken out from under them, even if they are slowing down, you lose an edge shouldering with someone and you are still likely to injure a shoulder or leg going hard into the boards.QUOTE]

the point of hybrid icing is that there is no battling for positioning. the two players dont converge on the same point, its just who crosses the line across the dots first. yes there is still a chance you can lose an edge but you won't get tangled with anyone.

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